The broken part you pictured appears to be the belt tensioner.
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The broken part you pictured appears to be the belt tensioner.
And you will need the transmission in place when you want to check fitment of motor, it's a package deal, cannot really do one without the other, plus you will need to tell the chassis builder what the package going in will be. Along with the tranny you'll need the starter locator plate. It goes between the motor block and trans bell housing. it indexes ( aligns) the starter motor the correct distance from the crankshaft centerline. The 2 starter bolts are special but common hardware can usually work. And don't worry about using Loctite on anything for now. You only need to do the assembly at this point. It's called "mocking up".. you actually "build / assemble" the car, once it's all together, then you blow it all apart for paint and then re-assemble paying attention then to the fit and finish fine tuning.
As long as everybody is making suggestions, I'll throw my 2 cents in. :LOL:
As it might be a while before you are ready to install the engine and transmission another investment you might consider is an engine/run stand. It will make the engine more stable when removing or installing parts and if you get one with a radiator you can actually fire the engine, check oil pressure, set timing and adjust the carburetor prior to either tear-down (if needed) or installation. It will also allow you to roll the engine around out of the way when needed.
You will need to make sure you get one long enough to accommodate the bellhousing as on the Fords the starter connects there rather than on the engine block. If you go with a T5 getting the bellhousing won't be wasted.
Another option rather than buying one is to grab some steel and build your own.......might be a good practice project for your welding.
This is one I put together a while back for an engine I knew would be sitting a while before it went into a vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2a8j3GsYNY
From personal experience I've found being able to fire the engine for a project up from time to time can be a good motivator to keep the project going.
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Forgot to mention, the only limitation you will have with the dryer plug is you will be limited to 35 amps, but hey, better than nothing and it will do pretty much anything a 220V wire feed can pull. Plus, you can also run an air compressor, everyone needs an air compressor.
Great advice, Mike! And if your project stalls, being able to say you've started the engine & brought it up to temp every once in awhile will bring you a few more bucks, too!! ;):p:LOL::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P
Well this thread has taken and interesting turn, i.e., using a dryer circuit to energize a welder. An electric dryer uses a 30 amp 220/240 volt circuit. The term “220 volt circuit” is not really accurate in the United States as we use 240 volts as a standard. A dryer using 5,000 watts when supplied with 220 volts draws 22.73 amps yet it draws only 20.83 amps when supplied with 240 volts so 240 volts is more efficient.
If your house was built prior to 1996, your dryer circuit is typically supplied from a 2 pole 30 amp breaker and uses #10 AWG (or larger) cable. This circuit was typically terminated on a NEMA R-30, three conductor receptacle using 10/2 or 10/3 cable with a bare ground.
Since January 1, 1996, The National Electric Code requires that new construction utilize a 4 wire connection (black and red for load, white for neutral and bare copper [or green] for ground) to an electric dryer and be terminated on a 4-prong NEMA 14-30 receptacle. (As an aside, mobile homes have used 4 wire since the 1980’s.)
The latest version of NFPA-70 (also known as the National Electric Code) requires dryers to be ground-fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) protected because they are in the laundry area (considered a potential wet area). The same is true for basements and the garage. The code is all-encompassing meaning that welders, air compressors, and any other electric-powered tool or appliance that you might find in a garage will need GFCI protection if they are cord-and-plug connected.
That said, I would not hesitate to use the dryer circuit as long as the receptacle is in good working order. Use a #10/3 SO cord for not more than 25’ and #8/3 for up to 50’. SO cord is available at Home Depot or Lowes. Make sure you match your dryer receptacle on the plug end and your welder plug on the receptacle end. The SO cord will have three rubber insulated conductors and you will use them as follows:
• Black – load
• White - load
• green - neutral
If you’re not sure how to wire this extension cord please get an electrician to help you as we do not want to read about you getting licked by the 240 volt dragon.
In a “perfect world” you would install a net new 50 amp, 240 volt circuit that would handle any welder. This will extend a 240 volt, 30 amp circuit for your welder so make sure you do not exceed that rating.
JimBeam, have you actually sat in a '32 roadster?
If the answer is "NO" then I STRONGLY suggest that before you call Jason Slover to order a chassis you find a way to gently settle your butt into the seat of one, behind the wheel not just as a passenger, and be sure that you like the "fit" before you invest $$$ and sweat equity into building your dream, only to find out the glass slipper is two sizes too small and you can't drive comfortably. I'm only 6'2 (shrunk down from 6'3 with age), and I have to be careful getting in my '32 because my belt tries to grab the striker pin, then once sitting I have to work my feet past the door opening. My right knee rests against the LOKAR shifter knob which rises about 15" or more above the tranny, and my right heel is on the floor & tunnel, kicked back to the throttle suspended above. My left knee is up, resting against the door, ready for left foot braking as it's too hard to get the right from throttle to brake quickly. I used Fiero seats, headless for the roadster, because they sit so low and have minimal thickness in the back while still being very comfortable. You might gain a bit with SS Bomber seats, if you like the look and feel.
In my '33 coupe, which also has Fiero seats, I slide the seat back and my legs are extended comfortably. I can put the clutch pedal on the floor, but could really move the seat up one click. My right calf rests against the tunnel, knee away from the shifter.
Just sayin', you've said you're 6'4", and you need to be sure what you're buying before writing the check. The '32 is beautiful, and it screams HOT ROD like nothing else, but if you have to stop every 100 miles to unkink your body?
running a welder on a dryer circuit is just not a good idea . you might get away with a wire welder but using a stick can really draw a lot of juice especially if you stick it.
I am sure that this is good advice and I'm going to try and do that. But even if I can't and even if the fit is not perfect, the build, the learning and the fun from it will still be worth it to me. Worst case scenario, I end up selling the car and building a new one - I'm OK with that. I've spent plenty of money on more stupid things than this :) I'm still optimistic though. While I am 6'4", my inseam is only 30", which is short for someone of my size and my sitting height is taller than most. So I'm thinking that the fit may not be so bad or can be overcome. As I said, this is a second car just for cruising The Strip, so a less-than-perfect fit can be overcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
I called Summit last night to get an estimate for the chassis order and some of the upgrades that I am going to want. The overall price is what I expected and the freight charges were also a pleasant surprise. I want to do some more clean up and prep in my garage, but I think I will be leaning towards the order in the very near future.
OK I'm curious why you would call Summit about a Pete & Jake's Chassis instead of calling Pete & Jake's direct? You're putting a middle man into play when it adds ZERO value, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBeam
Because Summit is dumb enough to let you borrow a lot of money for a lot of time for zero dollars :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
That simply doesn't make sense to me. Enjoy your build.
To be clear, I am in touch with Jason at P&J and he's been very helpful. Really, the only role that Summit is playing here is on the financing side because they give insane credit lines for 18 months. It's the same people, the same products, just a different way to finance it and pay no interest. What good is a high credit score if you don't use it? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
you would be amazed what you can order thru amazon and get free shipping .
Indeed, you are right about that. Amazon also has some great financing and they will be a big part of my plans. I am 100% determined to get through this project with paying zero interest. Between my Amazon, Home Depot and Summit credit cards, I think I can do it. In fact, I may start including that in my updates since the bills/purchases are really starting to fly right now :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
LOL I'd say you're steppin' over a dollar to pick up a dime, but it's your dollars and your dimes so you're driving. Have fun!!
GOOD NEWS: I placed the order with Summit today and my chassis is underway.BAD NEWS: P&J gave me an estimate of 18-19 weeks. Not excited about that, but hey, plenty of time to practice my welding and do more work on the engine. I also need to source an AOD. I don't anticipate that being too difficult, I just have much more time to do it now.
- 1932 with IFS
- Rear disk brake
- 5x4.5" (I think that should work?)
- Brake lines installed
- C-notch chassis
- 302/AOD mounts
- Triangulated 4-bar rear
So I might go back to the original plan of rebuilding the engine first just because 5 months is plenty of time to do that. I'll see how I feel about it this weekend after I finish removing the EFI.
“……rebuilding the engine first just because 5 months is plenty of time to do that….”
LOL Man does that sound like famous last words.
I’m sitting here chuckling because I just got the cam in for an engine I’m building…….it was on backorder for over 4 months. Also right now the machine shop I use is backed up to the point where it’s about 2 months turnaround time to get an engine done.
That being said as your doing a 302 parts availability should be pretty good. Financially you’ll probably be better off buying an engine kit with all the rebuild parts rather than sourcing the parts individually.
Of course until you get the engine torn down and inspected you will not know what to order as far as bearing, piston, and ring sizes. As this is basically your first engine I can’t stress enough that you should have the measuring done by the machine shop and follow their recommendations.
Speaking of machine shops DO YOUR RESEARCH before choosing one. Not all shops or machinists are created equally. I can’t recommend strongly enough that you should check with some of the local car guys to get recommendations before settling on a shop.
If you elect to do your own assembly just keep in mind ultimately it’s up to the assembler to insure that all the parts are correct, the clearances are good and that it’s assembled properly. A good machine shop will stand behind the work they have done but are not responsible if the assembler doesn’t catch an incorrect clearance, gets dirt in the bearings or improperly torques something.
Just some thoughts.
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Fair points all around, thank you. I do have a couple of machine shops in mind (from recommendations) but I do not have their turnaround times. I will have to do that research. Again, I will see how I feel about it after this weekend once I finish taking the EFI off the engine. All current signs indicate that the engine is fine, but let me get a little further down the road with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P
Another option is to spend the time learning how to weld. From what I can tell, the exhaust system will be impossible to implement without at least some welding knowledge. Does that sound about right? I have already priced out a welder from Eastwood and some exhaust tubing and flanges to practice on. That might be the best use of time between now and June.
Of course, if anyone else has other ideas on how to get ready for this build between now & June, I'm all ears. The only thing I know for sure is that the engine is here so I might as well do what I can with it - I really don't want to see this project languish.
What's the rear axle ratio? Assuming it has the final drive in place? Also assuming it's a Ford 9 inch style rear axle.
Also, now's a good time to find your transmission. Hello SUMMIT? Get one that's already rebuilt and has some kind of a warranty. You'll probably never be able to take advantage of a warranty as it'll expire before you get on the road. But for a short time, they'll stand behind it. Also - you'll need to find a flywheel as that 5.0 you have was a manual tranny car judging by the gear hanging on the back.
Also the flywheel bolts and the starter locate plate. Should be able to source one from a local junk yard or U-Pick... Just some thoughts..
Yes, obtaining the transmission components is definitely high on my list. I have asked the chassis to be set up for AOD. I had a really positive experience with the junkyard service I used to obtain my engine, so I'm going to be on the lookout on their web site for an AOD. Worst case, I think Jegs, Summit and American Muscle all carry a version of the AOD and I can just buy one (its just a lot more money).Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Couple of key things I learned today:
- I've been doing some work on my garage and installing some new LED lighting that really gives some great light. It has let me take a really good look at this engine for the first time.
- I had an OK set of tools. But prior to starting this project I knew I would need a lot more and a new toolchest. So far I have spent about $1400 in new tools alone and it has been worth every penny. Doing today's work I was able to instantly reach for things I needed to finish out specific tasks and it kept me going. Really glad I prepared that way.
The plenum, the intake and fuel rails are now completely off and I will do the intake tomorrow. Most of the plastic pieces, hoses, tabs, etc. on this engine are as brittle as can be and would basically fall apart in my hands as soon as I applied any kind of pressure. Made today's work easy but a little messy.
Next Up:
- Remove the intake manifold
- Inspect the valley.
- Remove all the clutch components
- Lift the engine off the pallet and onto an engine stand
I'll decide on the next steps from there. I have a 5 month wait ahead of me and I found an engine shop that can turnaround the work on my engine in 1 week. I also have some Edelbrock components in mind for my carb setup and I might put those on order soon.
I'm a little concerned by the color here. Indicates that there might have been water in here at some point
https://i.imgur.com/9maaCnr.jpg
These heads and a good part of the block have a lot more rust than I thought. I think this starts to point towards a rebuild again
https://i.imgur.com/tSJ1Y4Y.jpg
I found some water in the plenum. I know it can't reach the internals from this particular spot but this engine has clearly spent a lot of time outside.
https://i.imgur.com/SLI6PHh.jpg
Managed to get the whole wiring harness off the engine. It's basically a pile of brittle plastic at this point
https://i.imgur.com/JEaFvU0.jpg
Anyone have some fun ideas on what to do with this? I think it would look amazing all polished up or maybe bronzed in some way.
https://i.imgur.com/BMCnFYp.jpg
Welcome to the valley! Nothing jumps out at me as being overly concerning other than the specs of dirt that I keep finding every time I remove something. But everything else looks OK to my eye.
https://i.imgur.com/AnMbsPr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5j3U3nm.jpg
Every time I pull off a gasket or bolt it either disintegrates or is rusty as heck. I put a couple of these bolts and the Ford sign in a CLR bath to see if that will help bring them back to life.
https://i.imgur.com/jRIfa37.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JV5JR4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0QkGAvk.jpg
The headers are now also off. I needed to take these off to make it easier to wrap my straps around the engine for listing it with the hoist
https://i.imgur.com/VZtPZvT.jpg
Next up, use my engine hoist to slightly lift the engine and remove all the clutch components. From there it will go up on the engine stand and I will continue the tear down. I will also check the CLR bath. If that seems to be working OK, I will order a bunch more of it and start cleaning up these bolts and components because *everything* on this engine is rusty!
On your chassis order did you take advantage of P&J's "show chrome" options? One of the best values they offer, considering the costs of having things chromed today.
I did not. P&J advised that any chrome options would add significantly to the already-long delivery time :(Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
That surprises me, as I thought that Pete & Jakes stocked a bunch of already chromed pieces & parts, plus the IFS is from TCI and I again assumed that they would have them stocked. Guess I was wrong, and they're made to order, or at least chromed to order. That's too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBeam
So you're going IFS with everything painted on a '32 without fenders?
It is too bad about the chrome, but I'm OK with it. I was on the fence about going chrome anyways - it's a nice look but I can live without it because I don't want this project to sit around.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
Yes, IFS, no fenders, with paint. I am going to use part of my wait to do some color tests with different paints so that I can start forming ideas on what color combinations I want. I also plan to pain the engine block and headers so I will start looking at some of the color/paint options for that.
Today was my first full day working on this project and I managed to get a lot of things done and down to the bare block. Pretty good progress for a single day!
I don't even want to begin to admit to some of the things I had to do to get this engine on this stand. I'm working by myself and using a proper engine hoist for the first time - it was hard! Plus the pallet that the engine came on kept on getting in the way and I ended up destroying all of it to the stand close enough to the hoist. There was a lot of standing around doing the Hank Hill "Yup" in order to get some ideas to get it all working, but I did it! :3dSMILE:
https://i.imgur.com/OchJeAk.jpg
Cylinder heads looked OK overall. Should I be surprised that these are not bearing? I thought 1994 Mustang GTs would have converted over by then but it does not look that way
https://i.imgur.com/SqKjUWj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/34SXkWA.jpg
Pistons also generally look OK, nothing that looks blatantly bad.
https://i.imgur.com/WwUy96H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uAAFf8g.jpg
I kept on finding these color discolorations throughout the engine. I guess its the early signs of rust? I found it on various components and I show some of those pics below. Anyone know what this is?
https://i.imgur.com/SwuDEMc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/snNwwOS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/z3GYShY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Y2F9QMH.jpg
Crankshaft looks OK. These lines were on the surface but I am sure they are no big deal
https://i.imgur.com/ONQtdpQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Gv8t8wN.jpg
All the block numbers match up to everything I know about the engine - 1994 Mustang GT in that awful forest green that generation had :p
https://i.imgur.com/Jyo4ogJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tsVfGiq.jpg
I found this tag in one of the engine plugs. B&R is the name of the place I got the engine so I'm guessing this is some sort of property tag they add in case of theft?
https://i.imgur.com/2xubTLs.jpg
NEXT UP:
Take the block off the stand and off to the machine shop this week. I called a few places and they are 1-2 week turnaround time. So really not that bad and I can't wait to get started on it. I need to order some things from Summit to take to the machinist, but they can get that stuff here quickly.
That last picture, the device pictured is a high temp indicator. Many machine shops install them on their rebuilt units to give proof if they've gone over temp. that one is 250 degrees. I think.. there were a few different makers of those devices and the numbers didn't always line up to the indicated value on the part number.
That's great info, thank you! It's my first time dealing with an engine like this, so it's good to have you guys to point out things like that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Today was a light day. Just wiped down some parts to take them for sandblasting. I order some rattle cans so that I can do some color tests while I wait for the block to be done. Order was placed with Summit, I will take the block in as soon as those parts get here. Other parts will be taken for sandblasting Monday afternoon.
Light work day today. Summit order arrived today so that motivated me to prep for the machine shop. Just took the last of all the plugs and senders off the block. Also got the block off the engine stand and it is now hanging from my hoist, waiting for me to load it into the car (which will be a whole other adventure!). Block, cam and crank go off to the machine shop tomorrow afternoon.
Also, a couple of parts are now with my sandblasting guy. They said they could turn them around in 24 hours and for $50. That doesn't sound too extortionary so looking forward to seeing how those come out and doing some color tests on them.
Finally, Summit just came out with a 5% back offer for a max of $100. Since I have so many more parts to order, I'm making some moves to try to take advantage of that offer since it's free money to go after.
Anyone here have experience with the 1932 bodies from Speedway motors? They seem to have 1 in stock and I know Speedway has a good reputation. Plus their body is the 2" extended version, which I almost certainly need. Any opinions out there on this body???
You'll have to check if the chassis you ordered will accept a stretched body.
Someone else with more experience here can chime in but my understanding is that the body itself isn't stretched, its only the cabin area that is 2" longer. It just allows for more seat positions for longer legs. The overall body dimension is the same and, in fact, comes without mounting holes so that you can drill your own for whatever chassis you choose (Speedway doesnt even sell a 1932 chassis from what I can tell).Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
That's fine. All I am saying is to verify with the chassis builder. Let them know which body your buying. They've probably done one or two prior so they may know what works or doesn't.
It's all about the communication. Try to minimize any surprises... That's all I am saying.
Regarding your 5 month engine build. I was in Summit Racing in Sparks, NV last Friday returning some tires, a guy at the counter said he's been waiting on a camshaft he ordered since last March. YIKES!
Concerning 30_40's reply to your picture with the temp indicator glued (RTV'd) on the block. That was installed from the wrecking yard where he purchased the engine. I bought a replacement (used) engine for my Trailblazer and I watched the rep glue that indicator on prior to me taking possession. And yes, it's for the rebuilder/wrecking yard to make sure you don't overheat it and bring it back for warranty replacement.
Well I definitely don't hope to be waiting 5 months for my engine. I'm taking it to the shop today, get it back in two weeks and I'll continue from there. The 5 months is being introduced by my wait for P&J chassis. My goal is to have a completed engine by the end of MarchQuote:
Originally Posted by blwn31
To that end, here is a question for the group - I have located a body and they can get it to me within a week or so. Is it a mistake to get the body before the chassis? I think I can still work on some of the basics of the body without the chassis and still be OK. Obviously I wont be doing things like drilling mounting holes, but I think I can put in some work while I wait for the chassis delivery, no?
The body dimension is stock, only the seating area & doors are "stretched" 2". With your nominal 30" inseam I don't think you'll have too much problem with the room, but be careful about your top and windshield selection!! My roadster body from Show Me Rod & Custom came with the body mount holes drilled, and I believe that's the standard approach because the chassis are built with stock body, cowl and fender mounting holes in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBeam
Speedway does sell a '32 chassis, their PN 916-57050 set up for a traditional dropped I-beam front end. I believe you'd be well advised to check out some other body suppliers like Show Me, Russ-No-More, Rat's Glass (even more stretch!) and probably more instead of concentrating on getting one fast.
I managed to do just a few things around town today.
- I dropped my block off at the machine shop. Hone the bores, polish the crank and clean up the block as much as possible. I will get it back in 1 week
- Picked up my valve covers from sandblasting and those are now ready to paint. I have some paint coming tomorrow and will do some color tests at that time.
So not much else to do today other than clean up the garage a bit and keep looking for a body.