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57 Plymouth
A few days ago I got a letter from my High School Reunion committee. I made my 25th reunion, and our 50th reunion is a couple of years off in 2020. It got me thinking what I would drive back.
Back in 95 I built a 57 Coronet specifically to take to the reunion, fun car but the dual quad 440 sure liked premium fuel …..A LOT :LOL:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4477/...9fc18b97_z.jpg57 Dodge by M Patterson, on Flickr
I’ve about decided that I may make some changes to the 57 Plymouth and drive that one back this time. The paint and upholstery have held up well over the 10 years since I’ve built it and I would have no qualms about jumping in it today and heading back to Illinois.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4454/...f21fd5ff_z.jpg57 Plymouth by M Patterson, on Flickr
I usually don’t revisit cars once they are built, just drive them till I’m tired of them and eventually sell them off. The problem is I’m really not tired of the Plymouth and kind of like having one 50s car around.
One of the issues the car currently has is the steering box is getting a little loose. I built the car with manual steering because I just don’t like the feel of the 57-61 power steering (had it on the 57 Dodge). The smaller manual gear also lets me run the better flowing 56 Hemi manifolds on the car and if I went with the factory style PS I’d either have to use the more restrictive 57-8 manifolds or custom headers. Anyway I ran into a friend at the car show Saturday who happens to have a buildable manual box that I’ll probably pick up this week and send out to be rebuilt. A while back I started reading about the electric PS units and as long as I’m going to have the box and column out anyway I think I’ll do a bit more research.
The other major upgrade will likely be the clutch or transmission. The 57 has always had a pretty stiff clutch. It’s not horrible but the last year or so my left leg has started giving me a few problems……nothing major just old age. I’ve been kicking around changing over from the mechanical linkage to a hydraulic set up. Of course now that I’ve driven the 37 a little bit, building another 46RH overdrive automatic is starting to look like something that’s also an option (although a expensive one).
At lastly I may change out the Tri-Power out for dual quads.
Oh well it looks like it time to start collecting parts again :rolleyes:
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Yesterday was one of those “I hate cars” days. Early in the morning I mounted a new pair of rear tires for the Plymouth. I’ve only got about 25,000 miles on the car since I built it 10 years ago but decided to take a peek at the rear brakes.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4451/...402d19d9_z.jpg57 brakes by M Patterson, on Flickr
The shoes looked great, but the wheel cylinders were starting to weep a little. Fortunately I caught them before any fluid got on the shoes. The local parts store had a pair of cylinders on the shelf so I had a good excuse to drive the 37 into town to pick them up. Since the part store has moved to the other end of town, it now normally takes about an hour to get there pick up parts and get back home.
As it’s only the cylinders that needed to be changed I didn’t have to disable the brakes, just take 2 of the springs loose. The first side took about 10 minutes and I moved over to the other side. While I was taking the springs loose I I bumped the lining on the rear shoe and realized the lining was coming loose from the steel :rolleyes:
It wasn’t the fact that the part was failing, or that I now had to put brakes on both sides (and take apart the side I thought I had done), It was mostly that I had to lose another hour going into town to pick up the new shoes, especially since I had already made the trip once already :mad: .
After I got it buttoned back up and did a road test I was pretty much over it…..something about going thru the gears on a 4 speed Hemi just seems to have a soothing effect on me. :LOL:
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Mike I have the same problem here, my new home is across the freeway from the other side of town, where all of the 3 auto parts stores are located. My favorite Napa is in the heart of the old part of town where I used to live to blocks from Napa auto parts. Even though the drive here can't be more than 4 miles, it can get like grid lock afternoon when people are out to lunch, shopping, or getting kids from school, to the point of a minimum of a 1 hour round trip. Lately I've had the pleasure of multiple trips a day for both daily drivers, that seem to enjoy the new code reader I bought, and feel the need to keep tripping new codes weekly!:eek::CRY:**):HMMM:
When it's not the MR@ driving it with the roof down makes the trip more fun! However with the fires and smoke nothing is fun right now, not to mention the heavy influx of refugees adding to the bad traffic situation, trying to get in and out of the two local mass evacuee centers. Poor folks!
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Mike, nice work! I know where there is a 46rh set up that could be traded for a 4 speed set up for an early hemi. :LOL:
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We may have to talk :LOL:
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Hey Mike, did you know your Avatar looks just like.......
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".....Hey Mike, did you know your Avatar looks just like......."
Yeah, pretty much :LOL:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4500/...42907c30_z.jpgCartoon 57 Sedan by M Patterson, on Flickr
I actually found the original (bottom) picture on the net several years ago and just like my real cars just couldn’t leave it alone :D I made 9 changes to the original picture. I used to (and still do) like the comparison pictures where you see if you can identify all the differences. I used to show these pictures to Cade, he could usually get 7 or 8 out of the 9.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4448/...f4192cd0_z.jpgcartoon 58 Sedan by M Patterson, on Flickr
Anybody else see all 9?
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Think I found all 9. Want me list them?
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"..... Want me list them?....."
Sure
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1. Hood Scoop added.
2. Red tail light gone.
3. Hood Ornament missing.
4. Symbol in top left missing.
5. Decal on rear quarter panel changed.
6. Rear window one piece in lieu of two.
7. Inside head lights changed to white in lieu of yellow.
8. Rear bumper different shape.
9. Writing in bottom left corner missing.
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I wasn't sure if you wanted to leave it up for a while before someone answered. Didn't want to give it way. lol
I like the comparisons too.
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Yup that's all of them. Most that have seen them miss the tail light.
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Now I'm Jonny on the spot and can notice a tail light, hood scoop, emblem, etc. that has changed but...... the wife gets a new hair cut and I am blind as a bat.
Gets me in trouble every time!!!!
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"......the wife gets a new hair cut and I am blind as a bat......"
It's better to not notice than to mention you liked it better the way it was before. I don't do that......anymore.
I picked up another steering gear and column for the Plymouth yesterday.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/...15a92ce4_z.jpgsg by M Patterson, on Flickr
A friend of mine happened to have it sitting on the shelf. He recently pulled it from a running 57 Dodge he converted to power steering. I was pretty happy that it was already out. They are a giant PIA to remove. The carpet has to be pulled up to access a floor plate that’s about 12” X 18” then after you get the gear unbolted the whole assembly (steering box and column) has to be threaded around the pedals and brought out thru the interior of the car.
The down side is that it has as much play in it as the one in my Plymouth so it will still have to be sent out and gone thru. I got the column stripped off so it’s ready to box up and ship out.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4512/...21250599_z.jpgrs by M Patterson, on Flickr
Having the gear and column at least lets me leave the Plymouth together and driving until I get the box back and ready to install. I can also get some good measurements to see if electric power steering is going to be feasible.
I spent some time up under the dash yesterday and have pretty much come to the conclusion that if I do go with electric PS I’m going to have to lose the clutch pedal to make room for it which would settle the debate as to whether to keep the 4 speed or go automatic.
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All that discussion seems reasonable to me.....................but has it really been 10 years???!!! I remember the discussions about the hood scoop in particular as if it were only a year or so ago. Now I'm tired.........................................
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Really like your year plymouth, what an awesome car. I vote auto, I'm tired of shifting in my old age, no more manuals for me. There's a stick in my v8 miata that I built some years ago but if I did it again, I don't know, I just might do an auto in that too.
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"......but has it really been 10 years???!!!......"
Actually about 11 years now. I got it on the road around this time of year back in 06 and drove it to Tulsa to watch them did up the Belvedere in 07. Yeah, I remember debating a long while before I finally got the nerve to actually cut that big hole in the nice straight and only 57 hood I had.
Yeah I'm still up in the air about the trans swap. I still enjoy rowing thru the gears but then I drive the 37 and that 46RH is sure nice and actually has a bot better gear ratio splits **)
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If I were you, I'd have to say leave the 4 speed so you still have 1 ride with 3 pedals. I sure miss having a car hot rod with 3 pedals. :LOL:
But, decide before January so I don't have to build a drive shaft twice. :cool:
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".......If I were you, I'd have to say leave the 4 speed so you still have 1 ride with 3 pedals. I sure miss having a car hot rod with 3 pedals.
But, decide before January so I don't have to build a drive shaft twice......."
Ryan, I'm really in a quandary about which way I'm going to go right now. :whacked:
I drove the 57 into town this morning and I do like the car as a 4 speed. As the majority of my driving is out on the highway the stiff clutch is not that big of an issue....... at least right now. I did spend some time studying the linkage today and think there might be something I can do with that which will lighten the pedal up a bit and shouldn't take too long to do. So for now the trans swap is kind of still in the contemplating stage.
BUT THE PLOT THICKENS :rolleyes:
The steering box I picked up will probably be shipped out for rebuilding the beginning of next week. I'm still researching electric power steering for the car but have decided to wait until I have a chance to install the rebuilt box and test drive it before I make the final decision on whether I try to go that route or not. The one thing I have determined is that if I do go with the electric PS, I HAVE to lose the clutch pedal to make it fit.
Then there is what transmission to use. Like I said I'm really like the 46RH with the CompuShift controller ($). I'd have to redo the drive shaft, go with an auxilliary trans cooler and come up with shifter (none of which are a big deal but more $). The real problem will be the cross member. The 46RH moves the trans mount back a couple of inches which puts it in a real bad place for the cross member. The cross member itself cannot be moved as it is used to stiffen/reinforce the bosses the torsion bars and adjusters are in.
All that makes the small block 727 I have sitting in the shed start looking really good.....it's a bolt in. Of course using the non-overdrive 727 would require a rear end change to a set of gears that are more highway friendly than the 4.10s that are currently in it.
So basically I guess it boils down to getting the rebuilt steering gear in and playing with the clutch linkage before I make any "final" decisions.
If you really want to go with a stick in the 40, I can probably help you out with some of the pieces for you to build your own manual transmission adapter. Let me know in a PM.
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Too many choices is the problem I seem to put my self into too. :LOL: On the 40, I think I'll leave it an auto so maybe, just maybe, if I ever get it drive able, the wife will drive it too.
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“…..Too many choices is the problem I seem to put my self into too……”
My issue with the steering is too many problems and not enough solutions :LOL:
I’ve got a thread going on over at the MOPAR site and we’ve been tire kicking the PS issue around a bit. The couple of guys over there who have firsthand experience with these cars have pretty much come up empty too. In the process of talking about the ideas we have all come up with the same things that not feasible. While talking though I hit on an idea that is at least worth exploring.
I’m wondering if I can’t adapt a 605 box much lower than the original steering gear. That would require cutting the steering column back into the passenger compartment and running an intermediate shaft to connect the box to the column. Cutting the column that far back is necessary to get the angles gentle enough for steering joints to work without binding.
Chances are this will end up with rest of the pile of discarded ideas. :rolleyes: . I figured I’d at least look at it before I send out the original manual gear for a $300+ rebuild. IF I can make this work the cost would be about the same as just rebuilding the gear. It would also allow me to keep the 4 speed AND have PS :) .
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Thanks Denny, That's neat! (makes picking out the difference too easy though :LOL: . thanks for the offer on the avatar, but I kind of like the way it currently is.
On a side note, in reference to my post above and comment
"too many problems and not enough solutions."
While I was waiting for the shop to warm up enough to do some work on the Plymouth I decided to see what was available for PS pump brackets. I can't use what I built for the 37 Dodge as I'm running the long water pump on that and the short water pump on the 57 doesn't have boss the that pump pivots on. I went back and re-looked at the Hot Hemi Heads PS bracket and decided it liked it even less as it's designed for the smaller pump with a remote reservoir.
I finally found a bolt on bracket set that looks like just what I want and is set up for a standard GM style Saginaw pump. The bad news is I found it in the PAW Early Chrysler Hemi Catalog.....you know PAW who went out of business what 7 or 8 years ago. :(
Oh well at least if I go that route I have a couple of good pictures of the bracket so I don't have to design one, just built it.
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I as well found some parts I wanted to get for my hemi and then realized PAW made/sold them and then realized the search was still on. Haha
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Yeah, I miss them,........ bought a lot of parts there over the years. There for a while they were selling the leftover early HEMI on Ebay. He still has an E Bay store, but it looks like he's down to rod and main bearing sets.
http://stores.ebay.com/early-hemi-engine-parts
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I’m gaining on the clutch. Extending the clutch fork made a big difference in the pedal effort required. I made a simple bolt on extension and it’s a lot closer to what it should be now. I’m still want to pull it back off one more time and add a second hole just a little father out and I think I’ll be happy with it.
I mentioned in the original post that I put the 57 together so I could drive it to Tulsa when the unearthed the 57 Belvedere in 2007. The thread I wrote on that trip is still here along with most of the pictures.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/hot-rod-lo...uried-car.html
Now that I’m working on the 57 again I’ve gone back and revisited some web sites I used when I built the car. I came across some information on the Belvederes’ current status.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/0...um/?refer=news
The car looks a lot better than it did when it came out of the hole, but like the article indicates all the metal is thin and pin holed (“It’s basically like papier mâché,”).
The museum where it’s to be located is only a couple of hour drive from where my High School reunion will be so if it’s still there I’ll probably take a drive and go see it.
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Once I had the clutch fork extension back off, I just decided to go ahead and build a new one with the hole out a little farther.
It turns out that all I needed to to make the clutch work like I wanted was building this. I can't get a decent picture of it installed because of the exhaust, torsion bars etc.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/...c258f777_o.jpg57 ext by M Patterson, on Flickr
Building it was simple, figuring out what what to build was what took a bit of time.:LOL:
Changing to an automatic is not completely off the table depending on what I end up doing for power steering , but I figure I've probably bought my leg a few more years with the 4 speed. if I decide to keep it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike P
Thanks for the links Mike!
A little trip down memory lane.
Much appreciated.
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Wow Mike Just read the entire buried car thread. Never heard about it until now. Just like Heraldo and his Vault. I guess they never thought to do what they do in New Orleans and make the Vaults above ground and water lines! I mean if your trying to preserve something that would seem to be a logical choice!
Still what a great idea and build up, unfortunate how the car corroded but still a cool thing to see done!
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Steve there was a lot of speculation on what the car would look like when they opened the vault. Coming from the mid west where almost all the houses have basements, I wasn’t too hopeful. Ever seen a basement that didn’t leak at least once in a while?
Got to hand it to Tulsa though, they’ll try anything twice. In 1998 they decided to bury another one…..a prowler this time. It’s supposed to be dug up in 2048. This one is mostly above ground at least.
The Other Buried Plymouth: Tulsarama II - Old Cars Weekly
I won’t be around for that, but who knows, maybe Cade can take the old 57 to that. :LOL:
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The white park light triangles between the headlights were changed too. I recognize the green van, white 65 Dart, and house in the first pic with the first pic...
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".......The white park light triangles between the headlights were changed too........"
You're right Dave, I didn't remember I'd done that and didn't catch it when I looked at it.
"....... I recognize the green van, white 65 Dart, and house......"
Yeah the only really decent pictures of the 57 Dodge I have were taken in front of your old place.
Speaking of things I forgot I did, some of you might remember the build video I did on the 57 several years ago if not here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVwm8FDXitA&t=19s
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Mike, that is very nice you have figured out a way to make it nicer to drive for you. i had almost forgotten about that Tulsa car until looking at your thread on it. It's nice to see the car will be in a museum for people to enjoy for years to come. I figured they would have pulled out much worse. We dug up a model a coupe that a friend's crazy great uncle buried in the 60s and there wasn't much left of it.
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Great video including the 37 Dodge truck that came next!
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Once I got the 57 drivable back in 06 the drivers’ side rear spring started to sag a bit. I took the easy/quick way out at the time and threw a set of air shocks on the back. I finally got tired of adding air to them every 3 days so figured I go ahead and fix it right.
My experience with re-ached springs is that they tend to be over arched and when they are first put on the car sits like a stink bug and it take up to a couple years for the rear to settle to the final ride height. The only new off the shelf springs that will bolt on to the 57 are Mopar Performance C body Super Stock springs and those are a bit on the stiff side for my taste (I used them on the 57 Dodge I built several years ago.
That pretty much left adding some leafs to the spring packs. I had a spring pack out in the shed that has the right width leafs so I ended up adding 2 to the drivers’ side and one to the passengers’ side. That and a new pair of shocks and one more thing is checked off the list.
I also started collecting the bits and pieces for the dual quads. Dave (69Bee) has decided to go with an aluminum dual quad intake for his hemi. So I picked up the original 57 dual quad manifold from him. I set a pair of parts carbs on to check the height of the spacers I want to run under them (they have too many internal issues to make them viable as builders). I’ll be running spacers for 2 reasons; insulating the carbs from the intake to help prevent heat soak on hot days , getting the air cleaner up into the scoop area……even with 1 ½” of spacers the aircleaner is still sits lower than the tri-power.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4444/...22daca37_o.jpg354 DQ by M Patterson, on Flickr
I like the big oval air cleaner on this car, but when I built it the only thing I could find were the chrome steel ones. To me the chrome steel never looked quite right with the aluminum valve covers. I finally bit the bullet an picked up an aluminum air cleaner assembly which was black powder coated. I got the powder coating stripped (acetone and steel wool). Right now I’m debating whether to polish the lid out or send it and the valve covers out to be powder coated. I’m kind of leaning towards the powder coating. The “near chrome” powder coating does not look anything like chrome but does look like polished aluminum but it doesn’t oxidize like the polished aluminum does. It’s also a lot easier than polishing the lid and those big valve covers …..but like I said, I’m still deciding.
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You going with eddy's or holleys?
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I’m not a big fan of Holleys Ken so they are pretty much out.
I’m actually hoping to find a couple of early Carter AFBs. If I can find 2 with the right butterfly size and linkage arms I have enough venturies, jets and step rods to build them into a pair.
I could make either 500 or 600 CFM Edelbrocks work and they would probably be easier to come up with. New they are good bit more than I really want to pay for them and used most sellers think they are worth more than I do.
If push come to shove, I do have 2 Carters I could use. One I picked up at a swap meet last year. The other is currently sitting on the 283 in the 87 Ram 50. So I guess realistically if I had to all I really need to come up with is one to replace the one on the Dodge with.
Weather permitting Cade and I will be going to the Swap meet in Tucson next Saturday, who knows maybe I can find something there.
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Thanks Denny, I've been keeping an eye on the Bay just in case a great deal comes along.....seem like just before X Mas some good deals can be had.....I'm kind of holding out on the swap meet next Sat before I pull the trigger on anything though.
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I started out on WCFB's and AFB's aren't much better as far as small parts and the complications of the adjustments. IMHO with a an assortment of jets, power valves and pump cams and you should be able to get a Holley pretty well tuned in. Makes no difference 2-4's are cool no matter what carbs are used.