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Hello, **)
Just started working on a 1964 Ford F100. The truck had a Lincoln front end welded on and looks similar to a 66 ford galaxie 500 front end. I have some experience working on cars, but this is my first project alone. I would love any input on ideas and tips. Truck has no motor or trans currently. Will be posting pictures as I move along.
Thanks
Welcome to CHR!
Looks like a pretty big project you've got in front of you, have you tackled something like this before?
I have worked with my dad and brother on a 67 Cougar growing up and my dad has had many projects over the years that I have joined in on, but this is my first big project. My dad and I have ideas for the truck but its also nice to hear others opinions and see if other have had any successes or failures with this truck.
Welcome to CHR Cowboy54. It's good to see you here.
What "vision" do you have for the truck? A cruiser? Maybe some racing??
The IFS in the front should make for a more comfortable ride and safer with disc brakes when compared to the old drum setup.
Is the bed original to the truck? I don't really remember those rear fenders with that body style.
Thank you, I think a mixture of both would be great for this truck. I agree the front end with be better than original but I am unsure how well it was attached and since the truck is pretty empty I think taking my time and really putting the right effort into making the frame and suspension the best i can will really help with the performance later. As far as i know its original but cant be 100% sure. Im trying to research the truck more and more.
Welcome to CHR. To Mike's (34_40) question, here's a couple of pictures of the '64 F100 'flare side' bed style. The flat 'styleside' was much more common, but the flare side has a really nice look, to my eye.
Attachment 66143
Attachment 66144
FYI, if you've got a typo in your screen name you can PM "mrmustang" to ask him to change it for you. Thinking that you may have intended "Cowboy54"? Only a moderator can make changes to the screen name once it's set.
Thanks for jogging my memory Mr Spears.
Thanks for the photos, I do like the stepside look better than the straight bed as well. As for my name it is correct with Coyboy54. It was a nickname growing up.
UPDATE
Well a lot of time has passed. The cab and bed came off and the frame was given a much needed power wash, my goal is to have the frame blasted and painted. I want began to grind down the welds of the lincoln front end to see if they should be fixed or not, I think im going to try to fix all of them with the help of a professional welder friend.
Does anyone have recommendations on where to box a frame? Does it need to be all the way up and down or are there specific spots I should focus on? The truck also has a funky sunroof that ill probably keep for now because I don't really want to fill it in, but I do want to get rid of the bubble with maybe just a flat piece of plexiglass or something. Any ideas are welcome!
Thanks.
Attachment 66200Attachment 66201Attachment 66202Attachment 66203Attachment 66204
Attachment 66205Attachment 66206Attachment 66207Here are photos of the cab off and the funky sunroof
OH that poor frame! It looks like someone was taking welding class on that job.. Glad to hear you've got a pro to help you make it right. As far as boxing it in, it looks like the front is done so if you wanted to - you can fill in all the way to the rear suspension points. If this will be a cruiser then I would probably just get under the cab done.
As for the roof... it will be a pita to remove the window and refill the metal (imho) unless you can find a similar year or body style to match it to.
Thanks for sharing the build and the pics.
Hey Cowboy, welcome to CHR! That's quite a project you have there. I have a '66 F100 shortbed styleside. While they look about the same on the outside, there were some big changes in cab floor, steering, etc between '64 and '65 when Ford came out with the twin-i-beam suspension.
'64 was the last year of the straight front axle, which is why most people want to upgrade the front suspension to something that is more driver friendly. There are many options out there like the Lincoln/Galaxie frame graft, Camaro frame graft, Jaguar K member (bolts or welds to F100 frame rails), Crown Vic K member ('03-'11 aluminum K member bolts to F100 frame rails), Dodge Dakota custom crossmember kit developed by Industrial Chassis in AZ using stock Dakota components, and various beefed up Mustang II style weld-in suspensions. Some guys even mount the shortbed truck body on to a complete Crown Vic chassis because the wheelbase of the car is compatible with the truck. Each have their positive and negative attributes.
You, obviously, have that choice made for you already. If installed safely and correctly, that suspension should work well for you. Hopefully, the installers had the foresight to move the centerline of the front wheels forward at least 1-1.5" to better center the front tire in the wheel wells since the factory OEM did not.
My '66 has the twin-i-beam from suspension. For the sake of time & money, I lowered it by using DJM dream beams, an aftermarket lower kit. It was bolt on. At some point after I win the lottery or have some other type of windfall profit, I may consider some other type of exciting performance suspension but this will do for now.
As for the obnoxious (sorry, couldn't help it...lol) sunroof someone cut in your cab, the easiest repair would be find another rust free cab for your truck, especially if you also have rust in the floors and elsewhere.
These guys here are great and extremely helpful! There are also a couple of Ford truck forums and Facebook groups you may find helpful, too.
Anyway, I've babbled long enough for now. Here's a pic of my '66. It's a continual work in progress/daily driver. I'm running a fuel injected 5.0/AOD from a '92 Mustang GT and it's great. I'd love to have the new 5.0 Coyote engine but, so far, it's cost prohibitive!:(
HEy guys,
34_40 Yeah that section of the frame is full of holes and uneven welds. May just even it out as much as possible and weld new plates over the top to make it one solid piece. Thank you for the boxing info. I still haven't decided the power plant I will be putting in so I want to make sure whatever does go in will be good to go with no problems.
randyr thanks for the tip on the front end needing to be moved forward. Do you know where I can measure to check? Based on what I saw when I got the truck it looks to be sitting in the right spot or doesn't look off. It also has a nice natural drop in the front suspension so I dont think I will need to add any lowering kits to the front. I would love to run a brand new coyote as well but like you said too much money for me. I think the sunroof will stay for now. My cab is in great shape except for the paint. No real rust on the truck anywhere, but I will look to try and remove the bubbled glass and replace with flat glass.
Thats a nice clean you truck you have there! hope to get mine to look that way in the future!
Wellllllll------you could do one side at a time and eliminate the botched section while restructuring the front to the truck frame under say the area of the trans crossmember---------when welded up then cut out the botch area and flat plate the open channels in that area------
I don't remember if the mid 60s used a 9 inch rear ??????
Yes, starting around 1957 up thru '86Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
The frame grafts are ugly but I would consider just grinding them smooth, then making 1/8" plates to weld over, making it pretty and strong.
This was my friends suggestion as well. I dont want to spend too much time making is beautiful, not trying to make a show truckQuote:
Originally Posted by firebird77clone
I was taught that "If it's ugly, it is weak."
Don't just cover it up with sheet metal, take a little extra time and at least address that open ended section. It shouldn't be too hard or take to long to cut that out and make a piece to tie it all back together.
The abrupt and open end just leaves the associated stress to be handled by the surrounding pieces that are connected to "something". If you don't want to fix this, then don't bother boxing the frame , the stresses further back are relatively less that what this area has to handle.
I really don't want to sound harsh, of course it is your truck and your budget / your build....:) We may have to share the same piece of road someday, I'd like it to be a safe one.:3dSMILE:
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Here in NZ we are not allowed to grind or dress welds, the safety examiner wants to be able to see the weld exactly as it was laid; he them has a better idea of how good the integrity of the weld is.
In critical areas it's even x-rayed before being passed.
While it is a hassle; ultimately, for safety reasons it's a good idea.
I know that the scratch built car coming at me on the road is safe.
Well sorry if it came off that I didn't want to make the project safe, Im just looking for an easy and safe way to address the welds that I thought were not good enough. I thought by adding a plate over the top it would act like a gusset and add some rigidity to the section without needing to completely cut out portions and potential have things shift on me, but I will definitely think about this more before doing anything.
Thanks
Adding a plate is absolutely stronger. Plate over the whole mess, to incluse the open ended section. Grinding the welds first will let the plate sit flat.
Make nice pretty welds and it will be as strong as it looks.
Nope, no one is saying that you don't want to make it safe.. but in your paragraph above there is one sentence that says it all.. " to completely cut out portions and potential have things shift on me" , that's why I urged you to cut out the open ended piece and plate that by itself. Leave the other 3 sides in place and just clean up that face. Plus while it's open you can look up inside and see if there are other "surprises" you might have to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyboy54
I think you're on the right path, no matter what you do to that area, it'll be better than what was left by the P.O., that's for sure! :)
I'm not sure I agree. A good structural weld needs to have proper weld prep, with the two pieces of metal butted, or very nearly butted together, with the edges ground back to a V that's about as wide at the top as the metal is thick, but not more than about 1.5 times the thickness (rule of thumb) that gets filled with welding wire, fusing the two together with full penetration of heat. You'd be laying down new weld atop bad weld that doesn't have full penetration. It's not going to be as strong as a properly done weld between two plates, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird77clone
I'd start over.
Hey Nick, here's what I was thinking we could do. Since the grafted front end is actually bolted to the C channel, we could trim off the excess material from the Lincoln without anything shifting. Reinforce the inner sides where the pie sections were cut out of the truck frame, and then box everything in with new steel. Fabbing up plates is probably our biggest obstacle. You know Willy will weld it correctly.
What do you guys think? Does this look like a viable solution?
Attachment 66219
Regardless of how much you chop out and replace, if you do one face at a time, it won't shift.
It "Shouldn't" shift, who knows what is under there, we can only see a picture. But, Fauxre has things well in hand! If Wes can dress out that area with those plates, it should be plenty stout and pleasing to the eye. And most important, safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird77clone
ps, it was good to see your "handle" pop up there Wes! We don't get to see you so often anymore.
Thinking more on it- perhaps we are making a bad assumption: that it is correctly positioned.
Given the apparent quality of the craftsmanship, some measurements should be done.
What would I do?
I'd begin by thoroughly cleaning the garage floor and letting it dry completely. Then I'd lay out a rectangle where the truck would sit, 6 feet wide x 12 feet long. I'd make little stacks of shims from 1/8" thick wallboard and thin cardboard so that I could stack them on top of each other, making little 2" x 2" stacks about 12 inches apart and build a flat and level surface to lay my 6 foot x 12 foot 3/4" particle board on. The idea is to build a flat and perfectly LEVEL foundation to begin your build on. Of course there are any number of ways to do this with steel, but I have found that using wooden shim stacks and particle board makes a fine foundation from which to build a vehicle. I wish I had taken some photos of the one I used to build my T roadster in my home garage. The floor was off level by 2 3/4" from the front of the garage to the overhead door, so any of you guys who intend to build off the concrete should probably re-think that. I'd bet money that the fellow who welded this mess together started with a catty-wampus floor.
You can sit the frame on jackstands and drop plumb-bobs from several different places off the frame to the particle board floor and you can write on the particle board with a Sharpie. You can then measure from the marks you have at the rear to the marks on the front, for instance, and triangulate the chassis to make sure it is square with the world. Personally, I would cut the front clip off the main frame and start over, setting the wheelbase where I wanted it and insuring that the tire fills the wheelwell in the front, as suggested by someone earlier. Doing it this way, you could also set the front clip up or down in relation to the main frame and eliminate using any kind of lowering devices. Want the front lower?......then simply space it up in relation to the main frame. Want the front higher?....then simply space it down in relation to the main frame.
Not very high-tech, but it worked really well for me and was cheap to build.
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i know this is not what you want to hear but i would start over. i doubt it is anywhere close to right just looking at the workmanship. my choice would be a camaro clip.
Tech, how thick or particle board did you use? 3/4"?
Yep, with the little towers of shims spaced at 12 inches, it is a pretty rigid arrangement. When you go out to work on the project, you get a really good feeling about it, knowing that the floor is level front to back and side to side. I used an aluminum 48" level to span across the little towers, which you can get as close as 0.003" to each other in height by gluing squares of copy paper onto the top of each tower, after you get real close with the thin cardboard. It goes without saying that you begin at the highest point in the garage and build to the lowest point.Quote:
Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Thanks. I'm just happy that I still pop up somewhere every morning.:LOL:
I don't post much as the VR project is on pause while I work toward building the garage/shop. However, I do lurk around here reading a lot. That's why I encouraged Nick to start a build tread here. I've found the opinions, suggestions and experience of those here invaluable to my project.
The first thing we did after removing the cab and bed, was to take several diagonal measurements. The measurements from the top of the front shock mounts to the rear suspension mounting points are pretty much dead on. The measurements from the shocks to the very end of the frame rails differ by about 3/16". My limited research indicates that +/- 1/4" is acceptable. Is this true?Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird77clone
Measuring from what part of the shock?? And since the shock mount is rubber mounted it could be out of alignment and you'd never know.
SO I'd say that if it is "only" out by 1/4 or 3/16... it's close enough.
If anything frame or suspension-wise on any of my projects was not within 1/8", it got re-done until it was.
.
before you do anything replace the front shocks with 5/8 all thread. crank it down to until aframes are level. then have the alignment checked. cut and butt frames are usually hell to align . this is why i use the complete clip from a ccamaro. the only place the 2 frame rails are the same is the body mounts and upper aframe mounts.
Nick has been making progress on the frame repairs. He's spent countless hours with wire brush and flappy pads, removing rust and ugly welds. I've been able to spend a few hours every few weeks helping out and I think he's happy with the results.
After checking several measurements from fixed points on the frame, we are confident that it's square and ready to proceed.
With the help of Nicks buddy Will, a professional welder, all the old welds have been ground and reinforced. According to Will, the old welds at the graft connection points were actually very strong. There was plenty of penetration... they were just really sloppy. He made quick work of the reinforcing. He gave us some pointers on using the wire feed welder, then left us to cut off the excess steel and box everything back in.
The process went something like this... a little welding, then a lot of grinding... a little welding... a lot of grinding... a little more welding... a lot of grinding... repeat...
Attachment 67236
The finished joints look really good, IMHO.
Attachment 67237
The frame is now boxed just past the rear shock mounts. Each plate was made a little oversized and was welded in the valley between the plate and the top of the C channel. After welding all the plates this way, we learned that grinding down these welds, to make them invisible, was counter productive. We should have cut the plates undersized to fit inside the C channel. Our welds are strong, but obvious. We re-welded, then ground the areas that will most likely be seen.
The factory welds on the Lincoln clip were surprisingly sloppy. Lots of splatter. They've now been ground for a clean look and a little body filler to even out the low areas really finishes the repair.
Originally Nick was leaning toward powder coating. But he's come to the conclusion that the expense isn't justified on this cruiser. He's degreased the front half of the frame and is ready to etch the metal in preparation for coating with Por-15.
Thanks for the update Wes. And say to Nick for us.
Project is looking good.
Looks like a great work on the frame. That cleaning up the frame stuff takes a lot of time. I didn't powder coat my frame either because it's more difficult to grind off powder coat to change something vs paint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
That was supposed to say "Say Hi to Nick for us".. LOL..
My thoughts exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5
