Thread: A log of my updates on my '32 Brookville highboy

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Sounds like our engines are close builds. Mine offered a hotter cam with different heads for a 40 hp increase that I declined because it also pushed the power band higher. They had 4 carbs as options and even the smallest CFM was larger than I would have chose but since they designed the engine I went for the smallest that they recommended, a Quick Fuel 780. The other sizes were 825, 830, and 950.

Mine is also a Quick Fuel quad, I thought a 750 but if they don't make a 750 it's a 780. And I have the jet sizes handy but those don't mean much to me other than it was tuned with those jets.

Bob, if I find another bag of money later this year I'm seriously considering swapping out the quad for Inglese stack EFI ...I admit it's mostly because it looks so awesome, but I have a hunch it will also make a tad more power, plus it just looks so awesome Do you, or anyone else for that matter, have thoughts on the Inglese stack EFI, other than cost being quite high? As I'm getting older my motto has been "spend some money on stuff I like before my kids blow it all" Of course after I actually drive the car the way it is, I may reconsider the "need" for stack injection.

Well Nick here's the story. When I talked to Scott Shafiroff on my street build, I was willing going in to go with EZ-EFI at $2000 more. I wanted easy starting and the ability to deal with my altitude extremes of sea level to 9000' summits. Even though it meant more profit for his company, Scott talked me out of it. So far his engine starts in less than one crank and seems fine to the 5000' elevation I've been to. When people would ask "What engine are you running?" I wanted to reply "Fuel injected 427". It just sounds bad, but the extra $2K left from the build means more.

I see your point, Bob, but I tried to emphasis the "but it just looks so awesome" to offset concerns about cost. The Inglese costs even more than the EZ-EFI, but how can you let a few grand stand in the way of this???:

PS: I think I may have just noticed that the Quick Fuel 780's are vacuum secondary, whereas the 750's are mechanical secondary. Mine is mechanical secondary.

Originally Posted by Hot Rod Nick

PS: I think I may have just noticed that the Quick Fuel 780's are vacuum secondary, whereas the 750's are mechanical secondary. Mine is mechanical secondary.

Finally a point we don't agree on. My history is vacuum secondaries because I think the engine via the vacuum signal knows better than my right foot if it can accept more fuel and flow rate.

As to how the FI looks, well awesome and it could add a little to performance. In the T-bucket group, so much coin is spent for the look of a bad engine and not much thought as to how pieces like tall tunnel rams effect the power curve. A couple of years ago at Fred's Fun Run in Sierra Vista, Arizona, Chris who owns a V10 powered Viper T-bucket brought his chassis dyno for free pulls. Many lined up, but after about a dozen pulls ranging from 119 hp to just shy of 200 hp, that line disappeared. Funny how a visually impressive intake that doesn't get on the pipe till 6000 rpm, combined with an ignored valve train (you can't see the valve train) that has valves floating before 6000, doesn't turn in big numbers. During conversation with my fellow bucket heads and they admit the visual is more important than the harmony of parts selected. For the street a good dual plane intake is hard to beat, but this low profile manifold that isn't in your face has no appeal to a lot of folks. The T-bucket rides for the most part are all lighter than 2000 lbs, so even 200 hp feels good. On a hp poll on a t-bucket forum, 18% reported running more than 476 hp and half of this group says they are running over 551 hp. At the last nationals we had 150 ts show up, this year it is almost in my back yard, Carson City, Nevada and Chris is bringing his dyno. We will now see all those so called 500 hp engines perform on the rollers. All the crazy "bench racing" destroys credibility for us that have 500+ hp engines.


Off soap box now.

This is Chris with his blown Mopar T, and he does produce big numbers.


And me laying down 320 hp with the mild mannered 383 that can plod at 1050 rpm at 40+ mph. Everyone knew from the cruise how quiet and mellow my engine was, they never expected 516 lb/ft at 2800. I think Chris's blown Mopar was the only one that beat me in torque and that was at a much higher rpm.

This same group has a pair of 750's on top of some ram air on a engine that can't spin past 6000, when a single 600 on a dual plane would have given much better performance on 1/2 the fuel burn. They have also told me that if my T gets better than 5 mpg, it can't be very fast. I could probably run my engine on all the un-burned hydrocarbons spewing out of their exhaust. Don't get me wrong, there are some guys that address performance correctly in the T-bucket group and have some fine rides, but after 2 trips to major mid west events, it appears more are for show and not go.

Great info and stories, Bob. Thanks again. I've had quite a few cars on a chassis dyno to get HP at the wheels so I know how people with unrealistic expectations can be disappointed when reality smacks them in the face.

It even crossed my mind earlier that your manual tranny will "eat up" less horsepower than my automatic, although with a torque converter it's usually not that simple of a comparison. (In the Supra, in round numbers the 6 speed eats up about 15% of crank horsepower, whereas a modified TH400 in an drag setup automatic Supra eats up over 20%)

But I'm sorry to report that I agree with you about the vacuum vs mechanical secondaries. Only reason I have mechanical is because that's the way Tri Star builds this motor. I'm sure I could have asked for a different setup but they say they have this setup proven as a street/strip motor (not a drag race motor) ...we'll see how it goes and flows.

Nick,

If this Pro Star is your engine, then I wish I would have known about Tri Star. It is pretty much the same engine and includes carb for that price. Did it include free shipping? I paid $2K more without the carb but shipping from NY to California was included in the price.

Is it too much to ask you to consider coming to the T-bucket Nationals in Carson City this year? Are you familiar with the area of Lake Tahoe and Carson City? In June temps are mid 70's~80's, humidity is single digit. Scenery is outstanding. And most every T-bucket owner wants a '32 when they grow up.

Nick, it appears there is nothing automotive related that we disagree on, I thought mechanical secondaries was your choice. I have run the 355 on both an engine dyno and chassis dyno, so I know my parasitic losses. Because of my Jag IRS and meatball rear tires I'm a bit over 17%. The chassis dyno will be at the T-bucket Nationals this year in Carson City at 5000' elevation. I'm expecting my 526 hp at the crank at sea level to translate to 410~425 hp on the rollers at 5000'. I've run on this dyno before and it is a bit stingy on numbers.

^ Bob, that's my baby (the motor link you posted) Shipping from Wisconsin to Philadelphia was an extra $200. So far I am very happy with Tri Star's work and customer service; so far the "work" part is based on visuals, like quality of hardware and visible finishing details. I talked to them enough about how they build a motor to convince me that they're legit; as well as references to people who have used their motors. But I know the proof will be when I'm beating on the motor. Their customer service and communications along the way and since delivery have also been exemplary. I have to say that prior to buying my motor I researched many crate motor builders, including Shafiroff, and decided Tri Star was my best bet. As far as I know, Shafiroff is also supposed to be good and were one of my finalists but I just decided to go with Tri Star. I even emailed back and forth a couple times with a motor builder on this site who is very experienced and I'm sure builds a great motor, but I just felt more comfortable with this choice...maybe comparable to somebody shopping in a specialty boutique vs a bigger store and I felt more comfy with a good big store behind me.

I would love to head out there for the Nationals in Carson City. Are you sure they would want a highboy roadster in there? I've never spent time in that beautiful part of the country other than a couple minutes in and out at airports. Is that June 20, 21, 22? I'll have to work on this to try to make it happen since I can say 100% sure that my wife would not participate or drive in my roadster more than around the block; and then with two teenage boys at home and one heading off to college at the end of August, school choice still pending with possible campus visits still to be made, I'm just not sure I'll be able to get away.

I understand family commitments but as far as being accepted, like I said most of the T-bucket crowd aspire to upgrading to a '32. I'm single, no family commitments other than caring for my 93 year old dad. It is just me for my room reservation at the hosting hotel, if every placed is booked, i'll have you covered.

I think you got a much better deal than I on your 427. So far I paid $2500 more and got an engine with a coolant and oil leak, not a good initial response from Shafiroff, and no response to my $215 bill I submitted to them for the resolving of the leaks. As it stands now, if your engine performs as advertised, when people ask me how I like my Scott Shafiroff 427, I'll tell them "fine, but save yourself $2500 and the possibility of leaks and go with TriStar for pretty much the same build".

Bob, I hope you can still get your issues resolved with your supplier to your complete satisfaction.

I'll keep us all posted on how I make out as it actually gets fired up and I'm hammering on it. I don't want to jump the gun and then eat crow when the bottom end drops out during my first burnout I will report back as things move along.

As I said before, I'd love to just head out into the sunset (i.e. westbound) and make a trip like you suggested. I'll see if I can make things work out so that becomes possible but I didn't want to be unrealistically optimistic about it.

Here is how our two builds of a 427 break down;


Both use Dart SHP Block w/Splayed 4 Bolt Main Caps

Both use Dart Pro 1 Platinum 215cc Angle Plug Aluminum Heads

I use Eagle 4340 4.000" Forged Steel Stroker Crank
You use Scat 4340 Forged crank

I use Eagle 4340 6.000" Forged Steel H-Beam Rods
You use 4340 Forged H-Beam Rods unknown

I use SSRE/Comp Cams Custom Grind Hydraulic Roller Camshaft
You use Howards hydraulic roller cam with Retro-fit roller lifters

I use 2.050"/1.600" Stainless Steel Valves
You use 2.02 stainless intake valves, 1.60 stainless exhaust valves

I use Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum Roller Rockers
You use Race Series roller rocker arms

I use Edelbrock "RPM Air Gap" Aluminum Intake
You use Dart™ dual or single plane intake manifold. You'll have to remind me single or dual

I repeat, you did better research and got a better deal IMHO.

Your engine advertised at 550 Horsepower, 565 Torque, at unknown rpm
My engined advertised at 525 hp @ 5600 .. 550 lb/ft @ 4200, and this might be my engine's only saving grace over yours, the revs might be lower. The dyno sheet showed my revs were higher than advertised 526.3 hp @ 5700 and 556.2 lb/ft @ 4400. 100 rpm higher for the hp peak and 200 rpm higher for the torque peak.

Once installed, you will have another gain over mine due to your headers vs my Ram's Horn manifold, but that is OK, I'm 600 lbs lighter.

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Nick, it appears there is nothing automotive related that we disagree on...

Bob, just for reference, do you have preference for blondes or brunettes or redheads?

Originally Posted by deckofficer

....but that is OK, I'm 600 lbs lighter.

When I first read this I thought "holy cow! I don't look that fat, do I?" ...ok, track T's are a lot lighter than '32 highboys. I get it.

I think I may have said it before, but I would love to build a track T or other speedster of the pre-1935 era build and style and use it to race in local historic and vintage race groups. This might be my first venture into a flathead unless I can find an old Offenhauser or Miller motor