What R2 said!! I was happy to see this thread active again and want to thank you for all the detail(s) you provide for us, it is very much appreciated!
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What R2 said!! I was happy to see this thread active again and want to thank you for all the detail(s) you provide for us, it is very much appreciated!
I have to agree! I know very little of sheet metal shaping and very much enjoy your useful posts. So thanks so much!
Thanks for the comments fellas.
Checked the lower profile of the upper gate with radius sweeps to lay out the new piece...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture125-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture126-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture127-2.jpg
Laying out the pattern on 19ga steel....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture128-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture129-1.jpg
Tipping wheel in the bead roller...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture130-2.jpg
......and a newly modified back stop, much better than the flat one.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture131-2.jpg
Offset added with the tipping wheel......
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture132-2.jpg
Then run through the Lennox.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture081-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture084-2.jpg
More tipping, then the step die used in place of skateboard wheel with the tipping wheel for the lower 1/4" fold...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture134-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture136-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture137-2.jpg
Still need to fold the top in the window opening, until next time...
Fantastic job, you should churn some of those panels out and sell them.
Thank you,really enjoy see step by step on this type of fab work!
Heck, I can hardly get this one finished :LOL:
Tonight I made a small sample to test the fold of the window opening. I started off by producing a small pile of scraps.....about three tries unsuccessfully, then this one, beginning with using the bead roller tipping wheel....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture139-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture140-2.jpg
This is about as far as it would go, and with the good piece already having bends at the bottom, would be a bit less once tried on that piece. This will require a custom made "anvil" for some hammer action...
The donor:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture142-2.jpg
As modified:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture143-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture144-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture145-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture146-2.jpg
.....then for some manual tipping...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture147-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture148-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture149-2.jpg
Comparison to the original....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture150-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture151-2.jpg
This looks close, next task will be to cut a sample out of the original and see how close we actually are...
Amazing! Thanks for sharing the tools made, too.
I would have a pile of scrap all over if I were trying to make a compound curved everywhere piece as you are! Keep ait it sir!!!
Simply amazing to be able to follow such a craftsman with outstanding skill and patience to not only manufacture his own patch panels but to make his own dies to be able to accomplish the job. Wow, I'm in awe of your skill sir, thank you for sharing.
Once again, the quality of craftsmanship represented here is just flat amazing Robert! Thanks for sharing. In so doing, you encourage others to take a bit of a plunge and try our hand at some fabricating.
Glenn
Thanks for the comments guys. Well, that's about enough of the practice pieces, time to finish the rest of the bends. Just to make sure we don't need any "tweaking", I'll cut a profile sample out of the center. This spot weld one the inner flange is far enough away so I won't need to grind out a spot weld, and still have enough of that flange for a good measurement. In other words, removed with minimal effort where it still holds it's shape accurately.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture152-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture153-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture154-2.jpg
Our profile template:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture155-2.jpg
Just to compare to our test sample, looks like the inner flange was bent down a bit much in the manual hammering, will have to ease up a bit...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture157-2.jpg
Outside profile looks good enough to leave alone!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture158-2.jpg
Following the measurement used on the test sample, the panel is run through the bead roller's tipping wheel nice and slow to give us an initial mark for the bend, then repeated to tip the flange downward...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture159-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture160-2.jpg
This looks about all we'll get without distorting and pulling, so then it's off to the custom anvil...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture162-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture163-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture164-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture165-2.jpg
Then for some manual tipping...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture168-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture169-2.jpg
...and comparing to our profile sample......
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture172-2.jpg
Ready to cut off the old next time...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture174-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture175-2.jpg
Nice work as always, Robert! I especially like your use of scratchbuilt fab tools and templates, should inspire others to try some fab work on their own and not just give up when they can't find what they need at their favorite 1-800-Hot-Rods mail order place!!!!!
Thanks Dave!
Well tonight's task was to remove the bottom detail of the lift gate and sandblast the remaining structure in prep for epoxy primer. The lower edge did have a flange folded up, so a slit was cut along the edge and the door skin vise grips were put to use...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture177-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture178-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture179-2.jpg
Next, the spot welds inside were ground out.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture180-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture182-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture183-2.jpg
Media blasting..... nice to finally see through the glass!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture184-2.jpg
The media blasting revealed a few more holes, and numerous pits, many of them close to breaking through.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture185-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture186-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture188-2.jpg
With all the other new metal going in the bottom, there's only one thing to do. Using the tipping wheel..........
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture189-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture191-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture193-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture194-1.jpg
Comparing to the pitted version.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture195-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture197-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture198-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture199-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture201-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture202-1.jpg
Next we'll need to do some corking to add the trim hole pad details.
Now to address the mounting pads for the window molding....
Here's the new "anvil", made from some phenolic sheet.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture207-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture208-1.jpg
Put an alignment mark on the anvil, fitted it to the originals, and added the mark there as well. Then transposed those marks to the new piece...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture209-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture210-1.jpg
Anvil was located, and clamped in the vise to hold it's location
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture211-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture213-1.jpg
Started with the barrel end hammer.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture216-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture217-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture218-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture219-1.jpg
For the ends, I used a rounded tip chisel....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture220-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture221-1.jpg
....and then another "anvil" to clean up the hammer marks a bit...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture222-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture223-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture224-1.jpg
Here's all the tools used....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture225-1.jpg
Touched up a bit with a sanding disc, looks close enough.... One down, 4 to go...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture226-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture228.jpg
Ingenious! Amazing! Fascinating! I love reading your posts.. I learn details that I've admittedly, just never thought of before!
So thanks for making the time to share!!
Ditto Mike's comment. Thanks for taking time to post such detailed info on how you're working the metal. It's an education every time you post!
Love the way ya do that stuff,I know I'd just weld a tab on,but some day some one may wounder if that was a stock part vs my way they'd know it wasn't,great work
Thanks for the comments guys, hopefully some of the processes shown will help someone to tackle some metalwork of their own.
Last night I worked to finish up the pad details on the inner structure of the lift gate.... The center one was wider, so I used the same phenolic and just added a wider detail to the opposite side. I missed showing this earlier, but a handy-dandy battery saw works well to remove the bulk of the material, sawing parallel cuts and then just working the saw side to side to clear out the remaining....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture235-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture236-1.jpg
Once cut out, the sanding disc is used to cut down the angled sides and touch up the bottom..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture237-1.jpg
This compares the two, showing the difference in width...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture238-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture239-1.jpg
Alignment marks transposed from the original, and guide marks indicate the area in need of hammering...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture242-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture243-1.jpg
I had a request to show the hammering procedure, so here's another video attempt. The first one is using the phenolic anvil clamped against the work piece in the vise, the second uses 1" square stock as an anvil to clean up the hammer marks a bit...
Video232.mp4 Video by rmccartney | Photobucket
Video233.mp4 Video by rmccartney | Photobucket
...also sounds like I have a loose hammer handle, something for another day.... ;)
Then the sanding disc was used for final cleanup. Here's the finished piece, just needs a couple holes drilled....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture245-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture246-1.jpg
Wow, such great work! I really like the modification you did to the vice grips to make the lip puller/spreader. Thanks for sharing this stuff! I'd really like to gather a collection of metal working tools like you have. Very nice!
Thanks! Back to the lift gate, the spot welds in the bottom piece were drilled out. This revealed a couple more pits, which were media blasted and MIG welded.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture253-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture254-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture255-1.jpg
All cleaned up, the new piece is plug welded on....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture256-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture257-1.jpg
Then the inner panel is fitted up and tacked in place....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture258-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture259-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture260-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture261-1.jpg
Top flange clamped to check the fit.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture262-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture263-1.jpg
That's about it until next time...
Looking real nice!
Thanks!
Finishing up the welding of the inner bottom panel....used a 3/16 hole for the plug welds this time. I normally use a letter A, but the flange here is a bit narrow, so a smaller hole it is. To make up for it the heat on the welder was cranked up a bit to insure a good weld.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture265-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture266-1.jpg
Looking at the back side, these should hold well.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture267-1.jpg
All the plug welds done, then on to the corner seams.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture272.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture273.jpg
and after cleaning up the welds.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture275-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture277-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture278-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture279-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture280-1.jpg
Then we'll clean up the plug welds on the flange, media blast the inside for good paint adhesion and some epoxy primer before closing it up..
Wow mate, that is beautiful work you are doing, very impressive and encouraging. I noticed you don't use a zinc weld thru primer on the surfaces to be welded before assembly, is there a reason why you don't as I would of thought after all the work you put into manufacturing replacement panels you would want to take that extra precaution against the rusty nuts setting in again.
Thanks for the question. I am more of a proponent of epoxy over using weld through primers.. I typically will use epoxy between panels where weld through may be an option, and use a modified bit to clean out the plug weld hole:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture314.jpg
This is the same size drill bit I used for plug weld holes that has been flattened and backfaced with a roloc sanding disc to resemble an end mill cutter.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture315.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture316.jpg
This shows how it works, cleans the paint from the metal surface, but having a flat face on the cutter, it doesn't affect the metal as a regular drill bit would. Notice most of the "chips" are paint....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture318.jpg
And welded......
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture321.jpg
Where this pinch weld seam you referred to will be on top and less prone to water intrusion, it will be painted and sealed inside the cavity prior to welding the outside panel on. Where the lower seam will be more prone to water intrusion and rust, it will get some epoxy primer between the two panels prior to welding using the method shown in these last few pics....
Good process and very little burn off when welding leaving a better seal between panel . I do it too .
.
The epoxy does discolor slightly, and I've found it is more tolerant of the heat if allowed to fully cure..
Didn't get much accomplished tonight but grinding on some plug welds.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture282-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture283-1.jpg
I've had a few inquiries in the past as to my weld grinding process, so I thought I'd use the opportunity for another video.....
Grindingplugwelds.mp4 Video by rmccartney | Photobucket
.
As always Great work
Iv'e followed your posts on the metal shaping sites, it's great to see them here.
Your tutorial style of posting is a great teaching aid to us amateurs! Thank's for taking the time to post!
I love the pic with all the vice grips lined up on the pinch weld! I never seem to
have enough clamping tools! LOL
Rich
Thanks guys!
Tonights repair was to duplicate one of these mounting blocks for the lift gate's gas strut.
The good one...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture285-1.jpg
...not so good...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture286-1.jpg
Used a hole saw to provide some radiused ends and the 3" cutoff wheel to cut out all the torn and ragged metal..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture287-1.jpg
A piece of 19ga is tacked and welded....note the original color....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture289-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture290-1.jpg
Cut out a piece from a steel angle, drilled and tapped the three 10-24 holes. This was bolted in place using anti-seize on the screw threads to prevent galling during the weld process.. then plug weld holes drilled and welded from the outside..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture292-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture293-1.jpg
Plug welds cleaned up, checking the threads for burrs...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture294-1.jpg
And for next time, we have one more piece to add while the bottom is still open, the floating nut plate for the tailgate latch....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture297-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture296-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture295-1.jpg
Once again you make it look so easy! And once again I gain some insight on what it takes! TIA...............
Moving on to the next task, removing the "cage nut" from the old piece...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture299-1.jpg
This was a good opportunity to demonstrate using the cutoff wheel for removing spot welds...
RemovingSpotWelds.mp4 Video by rmccartney | Photobucket
Here's the cage removed, the spot weld removal method leaves it nice and intact for getting good measurements for the new one...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture300-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture301-1.jpg
A fresh piece of 18ga and some red Dykem, and our new cage is underway....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture305-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture313-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture314-1.jpg
Slots....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture315-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture316-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture317-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture319-1.jpg
All ready for some media blasting and epoxy paint...
Nice work Robert!!!!
PS--if you wind up needing some cage nuts for the door hinges (or hinges) on a tri-five I've got some here I won't be using on my '57.
Great work! I just used the same method to make some slots in the trans mount for my Excursion. :LOL: I have a long way to go before rebuilding any tail gate hatches though. Haha
Dave, thanks for the offer, but that's one of the few things on this car in good shape! :LOL:
Ryan, one of those McGuyver moments!
Tonight I trimmed the lower edge of the lift gate to get the final repair part fitted up.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture320-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture321-1.jpg
Once both ends of the lift gate were trimmed, looking at the surface profile you can see we need a bit more crown at the ends of the repair part.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture322-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture323-1.jpg
To add some crown, the lower flanges on the ends were folded flat and used the Erco to shrink the bottom flange.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture324-1.jpg
The multiple bends toward the top were another story, a 1/4 beading die lightly pushing into a skateboard wheel, and the ends were pushed in and pulled up while exiting. Here's the results...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture325-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture326-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture327-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture328-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture329-1.jpg
Oh yeah.....you can see the top of the welding table again! :D
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture330-1.jpg
Next task on the list will be to form/fold the ends..
Another slight detour.... I need to stop looking for this stuff....or is it looking for me?
This pinch weld showed swelling between the two sheets, and a closer inspection showed some rather thick scale...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture331-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture332-1.jpg
Out with the old...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture333-1.jpg
Test fit of the new...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture334-1.jpg
The exposed metal was media blasted, as was the inside of the newly made patch....and some epoxy primer added...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture335-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture336-1.jpg
We'll let that dry and then get it welded in place.
And just to show the makeshift clamping system for cutting, grinding, and painting in an awkward spot......
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture337-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture338-1.jpg
Pretty cool.. 50 pounds of vice grips in the background replaced by a couple zip ties! LOL..
Were you using the 3" angle to form the piece also?
I did have two pair of vice grips at the top, the zip ties were a fail-safe. The angle was just a painting fixture to hold it while I brushed on the epoxy.. The repair piece was cut out from one of the practice pieces used on the phenolic dies. Already had the flange bent so it worked well.
Thanks for the info Bob. And as always.. THANK YOU!
Great work, and I love your cupboards in the shop.
They were a McMaster Carr purchase. Had all that wasted space on the side of the booth, so they came in handy for adding storage..