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I haven't kept up with this thread so thanks for the additional info. I also don't understand the head gaskets coming into play but no matter..Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
I will agree with Pat, you already know the length, just insert longer push rods, I'd go .020" 'cause that should get you close to the middle of "the spec". But, that's my opinion, fwiw - ymmv - imho - yada yada yada... :LOL:
I'll be watching for a conclusion! Should I put on my cheerleader gear now? :eek::LOL:
Pat & Mike (now that sounds like a corny movie from the '50s:whacked:)
I fully understand what you are saying but I'm not sure you understand what I am:eek: but I've been accused of that before
A pedestal rocker is like a shaft mounted rocker arm in that you really have only one way to adjust the valve action, hydraulic or mechanical, and that's to vary the length of the push rod either with different lengths or with an adjuster screw. A stud mounted rocker, you have an infinite adjustment capability (at least to the length of the stud) by simply adjusting the nut up or down. By doing the up/down adjustment you can adjust the preload on the lifter to whatever you want. That Crane mod kit that I referenced above will convert the pedestal rockers to a stud type and not confuse the issue with different lengths of push rods. It's not the best solution as it leaves me with only a 5/16 thread into the head even with a 3/8 stud rocker, but it is a reasonable one and with less time and money outlay.
Different length pushrods = This - which, if I had a valve job, different compressed thickness head gaskets, replace a valve for some reason could then 'force' me to remeasure and possibly have to get another pushrod. Heck, with my luck with that car lately, I could end up with 16 different length push rods.
Now, back to my original and, I guess second question, is there any reason that anyone can think of that Harland Sharp rockers wouldn't work instead of the Cranes?
At this point, if I can make the mod and someones rocker arms work, then I'll be able to drive the car a bit further then around the 'big' block (5 miles)
i know what you have you can only use a shorter or longer push rod . if you want more pre load you need a longer push rod OR sometimes cut the rocker pivot mount pedestals down or shim them up i done this to . if you go to adjustable kit you can use anyones rocker arm if there is room on the rocker stud for bigger body that may not be the same as a crane body . then when thats done do not think your going to use the crane push rod for this kit . as the roller tip is over .100+ bigger on the harlandsharps and your mid lift will be way off. what i been try to say is with a nonadjustable valve train you can not go by anyones else push rods less that engine is the same parts and machine to the same specs . on valve stems height i like to keep all 16 the same no more then .003- or .003+ . this is base off the deck of the head not spring cup as they can be way off
The Pat & Mike Show! :rolleyes: We both know what system your using. And we both agree and maintain, use a londer pushrod to get your spec-ed pre-load.Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Back "in the old days" when I was playing / racing with clevelands, we would shorten the mounts to the rockers to gain pre-load, or add shim stock as Pat mentions.
"IF" your certain you haven't achieved the required pre-load, then use the +.020" (or .030") pushrods, remember the kiss principle! :D
last one i shorten was a cleveland. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
As a member of the Pat & Mike show.. there's a certain irony in that. :HMMM::p:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Well guys - I'm gonna try it 'My Way' as a famous Paul Anka song that was sung by Frank S says.
One bit of advice that Pat hinted at (well, actually said) was the valve tip roller on the Harland Sharp rockers was too big - .305" - so am now probably going to have to call on my friends at Summit for $omething el$e as the Scorpions I thought I had an inexpensive lead on are 7/16" stud, not the 3/8" that I'll need.
And if it doesn't work, you all have my permission to do "Na Na - I told ya so, I told ya so" and I will bow my head in shame. But - a look on the positive side - someone will be able to buy that mistake at a loss to me:whacked::CRY::whacked:
put cam at base circle of cam buy a adjustable push rod .make sure it shorter then whats in there now by about 060 put rocker arms on draw up . adjust push rod till there is no play . measure it add 040. to 050 order new push rods done. scorpion/howards/ pbm all have a bigger roller tip then crane :)
Nope! Won't ever think about raggin' ya... well, not on here anyways! :eek::LOL::eek:
Your still welcome to the adjustable Push Rods if you feel the urge! :)
Just had the Comp Cams website up, looking at that very "gadget" when your post arrived. I'm leaning toward the Comp Cams rollers now that I'm out of the other two options.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Just as a curiosity question - Miller Rocker arms - any thought on them? I came across them for SB Fords while 'wandering' the internet, and for less then $200 - not going to use them, it's just a new name to me.
Mike - you may rag any time you feel it's appropriate. You just have to know I DO get even:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
I figure if I need an adjustable check push rod or two, I'll just order along with the rockers, but thanks anyhow (curious tho - will yours do 6.2" - most I've seen are too long?)
I don't remember what's in the box right now... I have 2 of 3 lengths, I don't think I ever picked up the shortest one.
miller mid lift rockers have been around for a long time. guy ran a 429 hemi head engine and started back late 70s? playing with rocker arms .l looked at his stuff many time read threw is history back sometime ago at that time he did get in to some of the flaws of some of the other makers of roller rockers it was a good read pretty much confirmed what i seen going on over the years with all the different makes of rocker arms and fighting with them getting them to come in right for mild lift thats about that time i pick up my ferry head tool mild lift checker . for push rods i have many. ones i like the most are jesel as you can add to them to go down to 6 and screw more tubes to gether if you need a push rods past foot
Pat - thanks for the info on the Millers. Since I had never heard of them, just good info.
After I do my rocker mod, and if I need new push rods for proper contact, how long will it take to get them and an approximate cost - they will be 5/16" dia, ball ends and 6.272 and probably plus or minus .020 -.060? If necessary, we'll do the final via PMs/email
well i can get sizes 6.225...6.250..(6.272)...6.300...6.325.. i would have to call and see what ones they stock 6.250..6.300 are stocking numbers others they may have on shelf just have to call when you need them .they have a 24 hour turn around. other place i deal with on push rods go by 050 up or down .from 6.250 so next would be up 6.300 then 6.350 then down 6.200 then 6.150 has for price . both are 080 wall harden one pice push rods. not ball tip. the first company listing will 210 the tips. other listing will not 210 the tips. but do stock them in some sizes with a 210 tip .i would have to call on them at time need see were i can get the size you need. the last push rod company that only sells them in 050 increments is abit less money still good pushrods . if you want more pre load the push rod needs to be longer then 6.272 if that is what you have now?? as for cost i help you out. PM me when the time comes .or go to my shop web page and email me or just call the shop Cell number 989-667-4071 . i keep this phone on all the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Well - just found out this afternoon that Comp Cams rockers wont work on the Crane Cams guide plate and pedestal mod. A set of Crane low buck (HA!!) rockers are on their way from Summit. The bottom side slot is too narrow. Now, I just hope Summit will take the Comps back or I'll post them here for sale in a few days along with the low mileage pedestal mounts
OUCH! Sigh... let me know about the rockers, I may be interested..
Will do if Summit wont take them back - they have just been removed from the packaging and cleaned of the preservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
It was a nice try - but sometimes things just don't work out according to 'plan':o:CRY:.
I've forgotten - do you have pedestal style heads or stud? If pedestal, I have the 1.7 Cranes which will be sold regardless.
:whacked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Currently have stud mount on the TFS heads. Are both sets 1.7? I'm figuring I can use 1/2 of a set and "balance out" or increase flow numbers between intake and exhaust. I believe what is on there now are cranes...
Mike - luckily - the Comps are wending their way back to Summit. Replacement Cranes should be here tomorrow and if my DW hasn't scheduled my time too tightly, might even get them installed and possibly, just maybe, get in a short ride, that is "assuming" the push rods are OK length wise and if not, Pat and I will be discussing the next step.Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
That is good news! I'll keep my fingers crossed it all comes together for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
I seem to have gotten the problem solved with the stud mount roller rockers.
Cranked her up this morning, fired off perfectly. Verrrry light tick which I have found is normal for these rockers. They are preloaded ~.030" according to my calculations (3/4's turn). Diddled with the carb and idle - 850rpm/17-18 inches Hg and no needle swing to speak of (Snap-On gauge, not foreign junk).
For Pat - did the felt tip marker roller check and the wipe is maybe .010 towards the intake. Possibly could use a wee bit longer push rod, but for my use, not worth the additional 'pain' to my wallet for a special, so didn't do a measurement with my new Comp Cams length checker.
Next - the @#$% gas gauge sender crapped out again (#3). According to my internet reading, 10+/- percent ethanol will do it to those India made senders - but for sure this WILL NOT stop me from going for a ride. I'll just disconnect it for now.
All - Thanks for the great advice and making me do some thinking as well
Glad to hear you can get cruising again.
.
Good to hear your off and cruizin' Dave!!!!!
good for you ... you stubborn irishman :D.i never let a ford engine get the best of me ether. some times they like to go for a few arounds
Thanks all -
Congrats Dave! That is good news!