Ford 302 Identification Help

link : Ford 302 and 351 small block engines

Ok so heres the deal, i found this ad while looking for a SBF motor for my buddy whos looking to go with a small block vs the ford 390 FE motor that came with the essex project (pics are up in my gallery). the tough thing is the kid doesnt know what the motors are except that his dad tells him here ya go and sell em, the info is in the ad if you click the link.

my issue is im motor picky (wont even look at a SBC without suffix codes) and even though the price is good and i want to drive the hour and a half tomorrow to get the 302 im a lil unsure with em since ive been avid bowtie guy my whole life, and crossing over into the fords is new territory for me. i guess i just never had a reason to dive into one until now. what i see in the pics is a smog pump, a serpintine belt drive and what looks like a plate for the carb. im guessing this is some sort of mid 70's to early 80's 302 just with the equipment its got on it.

any ideas what year it might be or possibly application? im kinda assuming its a truck motor just eyeballing it, but like i said im a chevy guy and these fords are something ive always avoided, but since it looks like were going to go with a small block, i figured for a $100 bucks ya cant really go wrong so long as it hand cranks over.

The top pics looks like it's a 80's motor.. brackets and the tensioner I think give it away. The lower pic is not a cleveland, wrong valve covers and intake. If you can get'em for 100 bucks each, you should be able to flip'em pretty easy and at least double (triple?) your money if you've got the time and patience! imho! LOL...

The top is for sure a 302/5.0L. It's most likely out of a full size car or truck based on the wide stance of those accessories. The second - it might be a 351, but the photos are poor enough that it's hard to tell. To tell the two apart when you get there - they both appear identical with just a casual look - is that the 351W intake is about an inch wider. The heads also have a 302/351 cast under the rocker covers. IMHO, the 351W is a much better choice as with very little problem, only money, can go to 427cid, tho many other parts wont interchange internally.. As far as suffix letters - not much difference. There is a myth about higher nickle content in some early 351W's, but everything I've read, including an article by a retired Ford metals engineer, says that ain't so.

When you get into OEM heads for a mild build, then you can be "discerning". Neither are roller cam engines, but that's easy to fix - again only $$$$$.

Either or both are good prices for a rebuildable core at $100 each (or less:D)

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Originally Posted by IC2

There is a myth about higher nickle content in some early 351W's, but everything I've read, including an article by a retired Ford metals engineer, says that ain't so.

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There's a lot of folks who believe the story of higher nickle content giving a stronger block, and it applies to some 302's, too. The mark on the 302 is in the valley area between the lifter bores, and is "XXX". My engine guy swears that he has talked to people at Ford who say it is true, but as Dave says there are others who say it is simply a myth. For me, the XXX block is either stronger due to better metalurgy or is the same as all the rest so it cannot hurt to have the mark, which by the way can be seen on my 302 block :)

Roger - that XXX is a new one for me. I'll have to see if mine is so graced, that is if I can find the prints or if I even took a picture of the innards
when I did the final (re)assembly after installing the ARP bolts and a better roller camshaft.

Amazing the myths that get perpetrated :-))

I have been told by the local Ford people,that the Australian 5.0L engine from the 90s,is a high(er)nickle content block,,and the also roller rockers as well..Havent actually opened mine up,as I have had no reason to do so yet..

thanks for all the responses, heres what we have....

i decided after looking at the motor to go ahead and buy it, turns out the kid didn't realize it had a edelbrock performer 289 intake on it. the serpintine system is for a 79' thanks to the D9 codes all over it. however the block is a 74' maverick from what i found. the casting numbers D4DE-6015-B4. from the looks of it it reads 1974 Maverick Engine :group 6015, (B) change 1 (4)4v. does this sound right? the motor turned over by hand which was good and were about to run a compression test on the cylinders so for a hundy not a bad find for a start to an engine build.

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Originally Posted by OSK

thanks for all the responses, heres what we have....

i decided after looking at the motor to go ahead and buy it, turns out the kid didn't realize it had a edelbrock performer 289 intake on it. the serpintine system is for a 79' thanks to the D9 codes all over it. however the block is a 74' maverick from what i found. the casting numbers D4DE-6015-B4. from the looks of it it reads 1974 Maverick Engine :group 6015, (B) change 1 (4)4v. does this sound right? the motor turned over by hand which was good and were about to run a compression test on the cylinders so for a hundy not a bad find for a start to an engine build.

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I only have one site that I know of that has good info on ford numbers, Ford casting ID numbers and part identification info for Mustang Shelby parts , ( unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have anything that new in it :( ) , what I do know is that the first part of the code is an "Engineering" number, so the D-4 just means it was probably designed sometime in 73 for the 74 model year plus.. it could've stayed in production right to 79 or beyond. Looks like you've got the rest of it right too!

And for a hundred bucks with a Eddy Performer on it! I'd say you did very well! Did you keep a hankerchief over your face while paying him?? :LOL:

LOL no i didn't cover my face. we'd already had a deal even though i spent about an hour looking over the motor prior to letting him lower it into the back of the truck. even though i could tell he didn't know anything about it (302) or the 351 but just meant i had to take a closer look at the block and heads.

Noticed the intake, since when doing some homework the night before i was trying to figure out the motor year by intake but was unable to do so thanks to the aftermarket Edelbrock on it :). He never even bothered to look at it (kinda young) but since i didn't need the 351 i gave him some pointers on how he could get a lil more out of it by listing it with more details and to attract some buyers. I never wanna screw someone over, but at the same time it's not my job to upsell something im buying either ;)

I guess now it's time to hop over to some of the small block ford threads and get some ideas from some other builds to get a lil more umpff out of it. just going with a mild build since the essex is so light but just can't go running stock :)

Is it new enough to be a roller cam block??? If so, fairly easy to get some nice street performance without spending a ton of $$$$$.

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Originally Posted by OSK

I guess now it's time to hop over to some of the small block ford threads and get some ideas from some other builds to get a lil more umpff out of it. just going with a mild build since the essex is so light but just can't go running stock :)

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I saw in an ad Street Rodder that Ford Racing has pushed their 302 stroker motors more, boosting the 347 out to 363ci using a 4.125" bore!! Now I'm not promoting that, as my 347 is big overkill for my needs, just mentioning what's out there now. I think they're advertising an added 50HP and 50ftlbs over their 347 crate.

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Originally Posted by rspears

I saw in an ad Street Rodder that Ford Racing has pushed their 302 stroker motors more, boosting the 347 out to 363ci using a 4.125" bore!! Now I'm not promoting that, as my 347 is big overkill for my needs, just mentioning what's out there now. I think they're advertising an added 50HP and 50ftlbs over their 347 crate.

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I don't know Rog....Don't know if I'd be in favor of putting that long an arm and building that much torque in a thin old stock block Windsor....I had seen the 125 crank, think I'd be looking for an aftermarket block, at least a Dart SHP to start building that much power....

your going dart SHP to get to 4.125 any way ?? wheeler .world.pbm. or less ford race block not sure how big on the bore on them . last 351 i did was a CID 445 .4.156 bore and 4.100 crank 6.200 rods AFR 225 heads and howards custom roller 750/720 268/278 lsa 112.. pac springs . they were hammering it with Nos and taking it to 9000 rpms:eek: i told him to turn down the volume . i have a nice lower buck build done been sitting in the shop now for better then one year 289 with 302 flat tops cast pistons 040 over 351 stud rocker iron heads all fresh machine work erson hyd roller cam weiand intake .guy fell off the face of the earth:(

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

your going dart SHP to get to 4.125 any way ?? wheeler .world.pbm. or less ford race block not sure how big on the bore on them . last 351 i did was a CID 445 .4.156 bore and 4.100 crank 6.200 rods AFR 225 heads and howards custom roller 750/720 268/278 lsa 112.. pac springs . they were hammering it with Nos and taking it to 9000 rpms:eek: i told him to turn down the volume . i have a nice lower buck build done been sitting in the shop now for better then one year 289 with 302 flat tops cast pistons 040 over 351 stud rocker iron heads all fresh machine work erson hyd roller cam weiand intake .guy fell off the face of the earth:(

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That sucks the guy just disappeared on you after putting together a motor. Basically what im looking to do is first break down the motor and inspect it then so long as everything looks good to go i'll take it in and get any machine work done then build er back up. kinda figure id shoot for a much milder build than the 327 that i just finished up, kinda thinkin id shoot for around 300-325 HP/TQ.

be nice if the heads had more identification marks. only see the ford oval and a date stamp 8K28. nothing much more on the inside than that

well broke down the motor and had some issues. saw right off the bat when striping gasket junk off the intake and noticed exposed egr ports, turns out the intake once pulled is an edelbrock 2121 performer 289. so thats going bye bye as it was designed for the earlier non-EGR heads. i also measured the heads (78' from the D80E casting) valves with a mic 1.803/1.472 which i know is slightly off from the bore measurements which were 4.040, 4.042, 4.040, its close but for a cheapo kobalt its ok, will need to borrow a more precise one before going any further. The heads have no casting numbers other than the fomoco oval and the date codes 8K27 on one and 8K28, there was a letter "R" engraved on the backside of the head?

the bores look good, nice n clean no lip. the cam is a mystery cam unless i put a dial indicator on it since the cam grind on the back is 01289 with the standard CWC casting on the front section of the cam (hydraullic) . The full block casting number is D4DE-6015-BA ______Z then below the date 6L17. pretty much got this thing figured out except the "Z" just thought id keep those who helped so far posted with an update.

Thanks for the update! What's the plan? "in-expensive" rebuild? Or, spice it up? I've got those same heads and am looking at some SVO Aluminum or E-brocks... I have a great running motor, just a bit "soft"... plus I'm looking into a Fast EFI setup..

Attachment 52034Attachment 52032Attachment 52033

yeah im not sure cause there is no casting numbers on the heads. from what i read on the fords they all have the engine size stamped on the head but mine do not. they do have some odd markings though any thoughts from you "Ford" guys??

The crank is definatley a 302 crank, it's got the 2M marking on the crank. so that mystery is solved.

Was there an air tube between heads? Ford called it Thermactor for emissions. On mine, it went across the back of the motor, those large bolts threaded into the ends, does one of them pass into a passage inside? They used a special threaded insert on the front of the engine to mount the accessories so they would need that 5/8" hole. I see them on ebay once in a while.

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Originally Posted by 34_40

Was there an air tube between heads? Ford called it Thermactor for emissions. On mine, it went across the back of the motor, those large bolts threaded into the ends, does one of them pass into a passage inside? They used a special threaded insert on the front of the engine to mount the accessories so they would need that 5/8" hole. I see them on ebay once in a while.

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Attachment 52039

This is the port that was partially exposed with the intake (edelbrock 2121 performer 289) that was mounted on the motor. the large bolts were just ones for accessories that i screwed back in until i mark each bolt, was just to keep track for my own purposes.

As far as the casting number the extra letter Z thats cast to the right of the block casting id number is a bit of a question mark for me and the vin id was stamped on the front of the motor not the back like what typically has been posted. lots of new numbers to me and figuring them out now would be helpful for in the future if im to ever pickup another small block ford.

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Originally Posted by OSK

As far as the casting number the extra letter Z thats cast to the right of the block casting id number is a bit of a question mark for me and the vin id was stamped on the front of the motor not the back like what typically has been posted. lots of new numbers to me and figuring them out now would be helpful for in the future if im to ever pickup another small block ford.

Attachment 52055Attachment 52056

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I can't say that I've ever seen numbers like what's in the top photo! Someone was doing "theft prevention"??? The State Trooper who inspected my car told me to do almost the same thing! Stamp the numbers on various parts of the car to track it in case of theft.

The other photo, I have heard that the letter on the right, "Z" in this case was a mold identifier. I have no proof of this but, I think I read it in a manual or magazine.

That stamped number is not really a Ford 'thing' until the aluminum modulars. The engine might be a reman from way back, i.e. Jasper

The 3 X's I have read and almost every time is a marking for the HO blocks , I have a 84 from a RS Capri that is marked this way also . Another I D for 302 to 351 is the .5 inch deck height that is easy to see at water pump . No clearance to head on a 302 and .5 or so clearance on the 351 .

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Originally Posted by rspears

There's a lot of folks who believe the story of higher nickle content giving a stronger block, and it applies to some 302's, too. The mark on the 302 is in the valley area between the lifter bores, and is "XXX". My engine guy swears that he has talked to people at Ford who say it is true, but as Dave says there are others who say it is simply a myth. For me, the XXX block is either stronger due to better metalurgy or is the same as all the rest so it cannot hurt to have the mark, which by the way can be seen on my 302 block :)

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yeah i measured the wall thickness, bore thickness between cylinders, rod length and just about every thing that could possibly decifier whats been done to the motor since the cam grind number i cant find, more so since theres no makers mark on it but my buddy says in the shape its in that he just wants me to put it together and lets see what happens. i guess for a $100 may as well put er together so long as the bearings look good. we'll be checking that tomorrow. but talk about low budget, hundy in a motor and new gaskets lol (crosses fingers!) :)

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Originally Posted by OSK

yeah i guess for a $100 may as well put er together so long as the bearings look good. we'll be checking that tomorrow. but talk about low budget, hundy in a motor and new gaskets lol (crosses fingers!) :)

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And I'll be willing to bet it runs like a champ! Maybe consider a "69" timing chain setup to get away from the camshaft being retarded.... but I'm not sure if they did that in "74".?.? I know by "78" they did! Just a thought...:)

Attachment 52058Timing chain - Tru Roller - for sure, but also an oil pump(standard volume) and replace that dinky pump drive shaft with a Ford Performance or ARP high strength version. I don't recall the Windsors having a retarded camshaft (385's did), but if they did, a later version will fix that problem. Check the fuel pump eccentric too. If it's the 2 piece, make sure the tab is in good shape. It's embarrassing to be towed home if it tears off (as I found out about this time last year - I screwed up with a used eccentric )

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Originally Posted by IC2

Attachment 52058Timing chain - Tru Roller - for sure, but also an oil pump(standard volume) and replace that dinky pump drive shaft with a Ford Performance or ARP high strength version. I don't recall the Windsors having a retarded camshaft (385's did), but if they did, a later version will fix that problem. Check the fuel pump eccentric too. If it's the 2 piece, make sure the tab is in good shape. It's embarrassing to be towed home if it tears off (as I found out about this time last year - I screwed up with a used eccentric )

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yeah thats the part i pulled pictured above, i'll check into a different shaft and double check the fuel pump, no sense finding out later the hard way when i got everything exposed now. cheaper to just do it right the first time i always say!

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Originally Posted by OSK

yeah thats the part i pulled pictured above, i'll check into a different shaft and double check the fuel pump, no sense finding out later the hard way when i got everything exposed now. cheaper to just do it right the first time i always say!

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Just make sure it isn't a 351W pump drive - too big.

I have a one piece eccentric in my engine now(the ONLY used piece in that engine) - Summit has them, but no drive pin. I ended up having to buy a box of the correct size dowel pins from McMaster-Carr

Here's a partial list of how you decode Ford part #'s. Decoding Ford casting part numbers When you flip your heads over and look at the combustion chamber side, you'll see a raised cast four character code for the heads in the part that overhangs the valley. Yours should start with D and the next number will be the model year with the final two designating engineering or application.

thanks, i've been through their web site, we basically figured out that the 302 motor had a complete rebuild using a 68/69 289 internals minus the crank but will be going another direction when we rebuild it.