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Thread: for the engine guru's
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    for the engine guru's

     



    Well, how do these numbers look??? I'm pondering a long rod 408 Ford Windsor Stroker, roller cam, forged crank and rods, etc. here's the flow numbers I found for some CNC ported heads. Is this what I want, or what do you recomend?????

    Oh yeah, trans will be a 5 speed, shift points at 7200 RPM......

    Superflow SF600 - Flow Numbers Intake *
    Lift .100" .200" .300" .350" .400" .450" .500" .550"
    Stock 289 - 302 51.8 94.7 131.7 139.1 140.9 150.9 153.9 153.9
    Ported 289 -302 63.6 122.3 174.1 189.9 202.4 212.0 215.1 215.7
    Ported 351W 69.5 128.0 182.0 196.8 205.7 219.5 224.9 229.0



    Superflow SF600 - Flow Numbers Exhaust *
    Lift .100" .200" .300" .350" .400" .450" .500" .550"
    Stock 289 - 302 39.2 73.7 95.7 100.4 103.6 105.1 106.7 107.0
    Ported 289 -302 62.4 109.1 150.2 161.8 168.6 171.9 173.8 174.9
    Ported 351W 62.4 109.1 150.2 161.8 168.6 171.9 173.8 174.9
    Last edited by Dave Severson; 02-12-2006 at 07:41 AM.
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  2. #2
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Well, due to my ineptness with a flippin computer the colums are hard to read, but what do ya think????

    I'm looking at the 351W set up......
    Last edited by Dave Severson; 02-12-2006 at 07:49 AM.
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  3. #3
    pat mccarthy's Avatar
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    a bit

  4. #4
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Oh yeah, thanks Denny. I believe my computer must have the "do-dad delete" option!!!!! Thanks for fixing it for me!!!!!!
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
    Carroll Shelby

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  5. #5
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    and here's some numbers from Chapman racing on a set of CNC ported Edelbrock Victor heads:

    65cc chamber volume
    230 cc intake port volume

    In. Ex.
    .100 67 51
    .200 141 110
    .300 209 174
    .400 254 207
    .500 287 218
    .600 309 221
    .700 321 224


    These would allow for as much cam lift as you would ever need, right????

    Ok, some cam numbers. Comp Cams 772-8

    intake duration @.050--248 lift .614
    exhuast duration @.050--254 lift .621

    110 lobe separation

    This is a mechanical roller cam (I love rollers) should be enough, or is it too much?????

    Again, 5 speed car with a 33Lb. flywheel
    Last edited by Dave Severson; 02-12-2006 at 08:54 AM.
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  6. #6
    pat mccarthy's Avatar
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    the ported 351 ex looks good but the 302 ported is not to far off the 351 look like they would do it but i thought this was all the heads you wanted to run i see you have more comming what about canfield
    Last edited by pat mccarthy; 02-12-2006 at 08:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Nope, hadn't looked at them, Denny. The supercharger would be way kewl, but I've probably allready spent too much money.

    The one in Muscle Mustang with the mild Nitrous shot looks very good.....Which I knew a bit more on the relationship of nitrous injection and cam's, I'll go find the cam numbers I was looking at and add them to the Edelbrock/Chapman post.....
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  8. #8
    erik erikson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dave Severson
    and here's some numbers from Chapman racing on a set of CNC ported Edelbrock Victor heads:

    65cc chamber volume
    230 cc intake port volume

    In. Ex.
    .100 67 51
    .200 141 110
    .300 209 174
    .400 254 207
    .500 287 218
    .600 309 221
    .700 321 224


    These would allow for as much cam lift as you would ever need, right????

    Ok, some cam numbers. Comp Cams 772-8

    intake duration @.050--248 lift .614
    exhuast duration @.050--254 lift .621

    110 lobe separation

    This is a mechanical roller cam (I love rollers) should be enough, or is it too much?????

    Again, 5 speed car with a 33Lb. flywheel
    I like the flow numbers.I also would look at some of the Dart CNC heads.The problem I have with buying a CNC head from the head manufacture is if their molds are off a little bit in one direction or another you will never flow the numbers they advertise.Can you run the lift up a little on both sides?I would like to see a little more on the exhaust side of the head.I would try and get the exhaust flow up to the 75% area if possible.I really like the symmetrical ports of the sbf.I would try and run the 6.20 rods.Is this on gas or Methanol?

  9. #9
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Never have looked at dart heads for a Ford. got a good link with some flow numbers for them????

    I can change the lift numbers, no problem. For about 200 bucks more on the kit price I can have them put any lift numbers on this profile that I want.... they have another one around .700 lift, gets really close on coil bind though... what lift number would work???

    Help me here..... A longer rod has more to do with port volume then anything, right???? I built one short rod stroker, it was a pup compared to the long rods. Was it the velocity, the rod aspect ratio, or time at tdc that was wrong?????
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  10. #10
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Edelbrock/Chapman 6129
    Intake Port Volume: 277cc
    Exaust Port Volume
    Chamber Volume 61cc
    Valve sizes and Lengths
    Intake Valve 2.150 12° X33° 5.540L 2.020 with std ret and +.050 Lock
    Exhaust Valve 1.625 25° X 5.560L 2.020 with std ret and +.050 lock
    Flow Figures @ 28"
    Intake Exhaust
    .100 70 53
    .200 141 105
    .300 212 166
    .400 273 204
    .500 315 227
    .600 343 237
    .700 355 242
    .800 357 251
    Extra Info These are actual flow numbers. They have not been inflated. Exhaust ports flowed without any type of flow pipe.

    Erik, these heads are one step up, better are worse numbers??? The difference between int. and exh. seems to be increasing?????
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  11. #11
    erik erikson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dave Severson
    Never have looked at dart heads for a Ford. got a good link with some flow numbers for them????

    I can change the lift numbers, no problem. For about 200 bucks more on the kit price I can have them put any lift numbers on this profile that I want.... they have another one around .700 lift, gets really close on coil bind though... what lift number would work???

    Help me here..... A longer rod has more to do with port volume then anything, right???? I built one short rod stroker, it was a pup compared to the long rods. Was it the velocity, the rod aspect ratio, or time at tdc that was wrong?????
    IMO,for what it is worth the dwell time at TDC with the longer rod becomes more important with a larger port volume, higher comp. ratio and a blower,turbo,n20 also better piston skirt wear better ring seal,better ring life and cylinder bore wear.Here are some specs. on the heads I have built.I look more at the mid-lift numbere because the valve spends more time in this area then at max. lift of low lift numbers. These numbers are taken at 28 inches of water using a 2.055 valve with a under cut stem.The exhaust is 1.6 in dia. with a under cut on the stem. .200 lift 149 in./ 122 ex. .300 lift 209 in./ 159 ex. .400 lift /262 in./ 190 ex. .500 lift 290 in./ 224 ex. .600 lift 307/ 234 ex. .700 lift 316 in./ 242 ex.Sorry this is hard to read.

  12. #12
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    CCA-CL35-773-8

    $572.95
    Estimated Ship Date: 2/25/06
    overview Warnings Application Show All
    Brand: Competition Cams
    Product Line: Competition Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
    Cam Style: Mechanical roller tappet
    Basic Operating RPM Range: 3,200-7,200 RPM
    Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 254
    Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 260
    Duration at 050 inch Lift: 254 int./260 exh.
    Advertised Intake Duration: 292
    Advertised Exhaust Duration: 298
    Advertised Duration: 292 int./298 exh.
    Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.621
    Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.627
    Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.621 int./0.627 exh. lift
    Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
    Intake Valve Lash (in): 0.016
    Exhaust Valve Lash (in): 0.018
    Grind Number: FW XR292 R-10
    Computer Controlled: No
    Lifters Included: Yes
    Lifter Style: Mechanical roller
    Valve Springs Included: No
    Retainers Included: No
    Locks Included: No
    Valve Stem Seals Included: No
    Timing Chain and Gears Included: No
    Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
    Pushrods Included: No
    Rocker Arms Included: No
    Gaskets Included: No
    Quantity: Sold as a kit.

    Cam and Lifters, Mechanical Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 292/298, Lift .621/.627, Ford, 351W, Kit

    and one step up on the cam.....this is a production grind, not a custom.... duration ok, or too much??????
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  13. #13
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Originally posted by erik erikson
    IMO,for what it is worth the dwell time at TDC with the longer rod becomes more important with a larger port volume, higher comp. ratio and a blower,turbo,n20 also better piston skirt wear better ring seal,better ring life and cylinder bore wear.Here are some specs. on the heads I have built.I look more at the mid-lift numbere because the valve spends more time in this area then at max. lift of low lift numbers. These numbers are taken at 28 inches of water using a 2.055 valve with a under cut stem.The exhaust is 1.6 in dia. with a under cut on the stem. .200 lift 149 in./ 122 ex. .300 lift 209 in./ 159 ex. .400 lift /262 in./ 190 ex. .500 lift 290 in./ 224 ex. .600 lift 307/ 234 ex. .700 lift 316 in./ 242 ex.Sorry this is hard to read.
    Wow, some great numbers!!!!! Were these on Dart heads or ???? Only other criteria is that for weight reasons I would prefer aluminum...the Edelbrock/Chapman heads also have a 5/8" thick deck...... just so we are comparing apples to apples.....
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
    Carroll Shelby

    Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!

  14. #14
    erik erikson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dave Severson
    Edelbrock/Chapman 6129
    Intake Port Volume: 277cc
    Exaust Port Volume
    Chamber Volume 61cc
    Valve sizes and Lengths
    Intake Valve 2.150 12° X33° 5.540L 2.020 with std ret and +.050 Lock
    Exhaust Valve 1.625 25° X 5.560L 2.020 with std ret and +.050 lock
    Flow Figures @ 28"
    Intake Exhaust
    .100 70 53
    .200 141 105
    .300 212 166
    .400 273 204
    .500 315 227
    .600 343 237
    .700 355 242
    .800 357 251
    Extra Info These are actual flow numbers. They have not been inflated. Exhaust ports flowed without any type of flow pipe.

    Erik, these heads are one step up, better are worse numbers??? The difference between int. and exh. seems to be increasing?????
    IMO,this is way to much head.

  15. #15
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Erik, the flow numbers you posted look (to me) to be the most usable numbers for the RPM I want to stay in.... What casting did you get these numbers with??????

    Does a small shot (say 200hp jets) of nitrous have any bearing on head and cam selection??? Don't know if I will use it, just curious what the results would be.....
    Last edited by Dave Severson; 02-12-2006 at 10:23 AM.
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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