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Thread: Newly rebuilt fe390 still smoking after intake redo. Leak Down Test? Wrong pcv valve
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Newly rebuilt fe390 still smoking after intake redo. Leak Down Test? Wrong pcv valve

     



    Sorry to keep asking for help but I am so frustrated with this motor. My engine still continues to smoke some out of the drivers side tailpipe. This is a newly rebuilt FE390 with about 400-500 miles on it. I'm guessing since the odometer is inaccurate. Engine is bored .060 over, has a race cam of unknown specs, solid lifters and heavy duty valve springs. The valve seals and guides were replaced but who's to know if I have a possible failure. I just last week re installed the Edelbrock Performer intake thinking maybe I had an intake leak from using the cork ends instead of the 1/4" bead method. The plugs all look clean with maybe just a little oil on the threads of 5 and 8 plug. Compression is roughly 130 on all of the pistons on that side once the engine is warmed up. That's me using an older compression tester and only taking out 1 plug at a time using no oil in the cylinder. Is my best solution to do a leak down test and would it indicate for sure where the problem is? I am wondering about vacuum and my pcv system maybe having something to do with this problem. I am measuring 13 on my vacuum gauge when the engine is warmed up and idling at 1000 rpms. This is a good reading I thought. Do I have the right pcv valve? I have it on the passenger side and a breather on the drivers side. PCV line is connected to my carb on the front where it's supposed to be. All I know is when we first got this engine running, we plugged the hose and tried to run the engine without a pcv line. We went down the road and the motor started smoking like crazy. Would an improper pcv valve cause this smoking and just on the drivers side exhaust. I'm sorry to be so ignorant about these FE engines but I do want to learn. This car runs like a rocket otherwise and I'm going to offer it up for sale soon. I want everything right and can't have it smoking like this. Any help would be so much appreciated. I am not giving up until I learn how to figure this problem out and solve it. Many thanks in advance for your advise.

  2. #2
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    So since you haven't done much from advice given-I'm sorta like ?????? But if you want to specificly follow some suggestions step by step in an A B A type order?????????

    First , lets just disconnect the PCV completely to see if the smoke is from it sucking in the oil???????? And while its disconnected, see if any oil fumes come out of the breather cap????

    Do you have any pics of when the manifold and valve covers were off the heads???????

    What type seals and guides were used????????

  3. #3
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Smoking problem

     



    Bless you for trying to help me. Judging by your Camaro you are much more advance than most probably on this forum. I am more than thrilled to send you a paypal payment for your advise and time spent helping me sort this out. I have by the way followed a lot of advise given on this forum but am no where near as advanced as most of you folks. The only thing I can tell you until I talk to the people who took care of these heads is that it says on my bill they used bronze valve guides and "PC" valve seals whatever that means. It's a little early here to start this car and warm it up to see about the pcv situation but I will do that in the next hour or 2. I did a small post last week entitled My FE390 Horror story with a happy ending. There you will see an image of my engine before I installed the intake.
    Attached Images

  4. #4
    34_40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    . I'm guessing since the odometer is inaccurate.
    Engine is bored .060 over, has a race cam of unknown specs, solid lifters and heavy duty valve springs.
    The valve seals and guides were replaced but who's to know if I have a possible failure.
    Compression is roughly 130 on all of the pistons on that side once the engine is warmed up. That's me using an older compression tester and only taking out 1 plug at a time using no oil in the cylinder.
    Is my best solution to do a leak down test and would it indicate for sure where the problem is? .
    Do I have the right pcv valve? PCV line is connected to my carb on the front where it's supposed to be.
    All I know is when we first got this engine running, we plugged the hose and tried to run the engine without a pcv line. We went down the road and the motor started smoking like crazy. Would an improper pcv valve cause this smoking and just on the drivers side exhaust. .
    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    The only thing I can tell you until I talk to the people who took care of these heads is that it says on my bill they used bronze valve guides and "PC" valve seals whatever that means. .
    You continue to do a lot of guessing, I know many folks have offered you advice to dial in the root problem, but there needs to be facts, not a guess. To do a proper compression test, remove all the plugs, hold the throttle butterfly wide open and disconnect the ignition power. Spin the motor at least 3 cycles on the gauge. Do a dry reading first, then add a few shots of oil and do the readings again. Write down each reading before doing the next cylinder.

    If you have the tools,a leak down test is a good indicator of a cylinders "health". But in each instance you must do the same protocol for each test, you cannot achieve reliable results if you are going to guess in between steps.

    You ask if you have the right PCV valve, how are we to know. Have you shown a picture of it? Or maybe a part number? And reading your previous replies, it sounds like the pcv is covering up some other sin(s), there is no reason for that engine to burn more oil / make more smoke when not running the pcv, so I think you got the right one.

    Bronze guides = good.
    "PC" may mean the brand name Perfect Circle, also good, but they make many different types.

    I know you worked with Denny and now it seems like Jerry will offer assistance, be methodical and deliberate, write down the facts and I'm sure you'll reach the real problem and then know how to fix it or move it on.

  5. #5
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    That pic doesn't show rocker assembly and/or rocker baffles-------------and a pic of shaft portion of distributor?????

    And that's not a CAmaro in the avator -------Its a Monza with an aviator
    (trying to be funny while on first cup of coffee)

    can't tell if those are stock oem or aftermarket cyl heads

  6. #6
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    if i remember correctly when you got the car it was not running .. you do not know what the previous engine ran like .. i suggested several threads back that perhaps you are just now burning old oil residue from the exhaust of a poorly running previous engine .. put a few more miles on it .. if you think the PVC system is the cause you can look in the hose itself for evidence of fresh oil .. i dont remember if you have a stick or an automatic .. if an automatic check the modulator valve on the trans .. have you actually smelled of the smoke ? .. oil smoke will of course smell like oil .. coolant smoke will smell a bit sweet .. i haven`t snorted trans smoke in so long i dont remember ..
    iv`e used up all my sick days at work .. can i call in dead ?

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    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    OK folks thanks for jumping in my nightmare. I really appreciate it and promise not to skip a step here. I just let my engine warm up and removed the pcv valve from the passenger side valve cover. The engine is emitting blue smoke out of the drivers side valve cover breather hole when I do this. As soon as I connect it back the blue smoke goes away. When the engine cools down enough for me to get my hands in there without 3rd degree burns I will pull all plugs and give a dry and wet test to each cylinder with the throttle fully open.

  8. #8
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    Cylinder leakage test is what you need to do-do you have an air compressor and leakage guage?


    and do you know how to do it???

  9. #9
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    OK folks thanks for jumping in my nightmare. I really appreciate it and promise not to skip a step here. I just let my engine warm up and removed the pcv valve from the passenger side valve cover. The engine is emitting blue smoke out of the drivers side valve cover breather hole when I do this. As soon as I connect it back the blue smoke goes away. When the engine cools down enough for me to get my hands in there without 3rd degree burns I will pull all plugs and give a dry and wet test to each cylinder with the throttle fully open.
    Is it like sending smoke signal pulses ? If so, that points to one cylinder. If it's all steady, sounds like the rings are not seated yet. If it's sending a smoke signal type pulse, you can get a pair of spark plug wire pliers. They are insulated, and not expensive. You then, engine off, pull the spark plug wires loose, so they will be easy to remove, and replace. With the breather off, engine warmed up, pull one wire at a time, and watch the open hole where the breather was. If the smoke pulse stopped, that will be your cylinder that needs checking.
    The other way is, if you have a air compressor. You turn the regulator so the output is say 30 lbs. Get that cylinder up on top dead center on the compression stroke, and apply the air to that cylinder using an air nozzle with a rubber tip so it seals in the spark plug hole. Listen at the breather for air leakage. This is also good to check and listening at the carb, and exhaust. That method is quick to check for intake valve leakage, or exhaust valve leakage.
    Last edited by DennyW; 04-09-2017 at 09:29 AM.

  10. #10
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    I have the readings from the drivers side piston cylinders.

    Dry Test Wet Test
    #5 150 151
    #6 130 142
    #7 145 151
    #8 149 150

    Obviously an issue with #6 but what should I do next?

  11. #11
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    I have the readings from the drivers side piston cylinders.

    Dry Test Wet Test
    #5 150 151
    #6 130 142
    #7 145 151
    #8 149 150

    Obviously an issue with #6 but what should I do next?
    What about #1 #2 #3 #4 ??

    Now you have to find out why #6 is lower. Read my post above. If you have a air compressor, and a rubber tipped air blow gun, do that test. That will tell you exactly if it is rings, or a valve problem.

  12. #12
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Here are readings from the passenger side.

    DRY WET
    #1 160 162
    #2 155 160
    #3 160 168
    #4 150 152

  13. #13
    stovens's Avatar
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    Keep at it this thread will help others down the like.
    jerry clayton likes this.
    " "No matter where you go, there you are!" Steve.

  14. #14
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    Here are readings from the passenger side.

    DRY WET
    #1 160 162
    #2 155 160
    #3 160 168
    #4 150 152
    Ok, most manufacturer's will say that 25% difference between the bottom compression and the top compression is an allowable difference. I don't agree myself... Hahaha.
    Looking at the dry---wet differences, It seems to me, that the rings are not seated in yet, or, you may have a different problem. Example would be valve adjustment, valve not seating correctly. Note that you should never look over a new part and assume it is good. That can have you hunting all day. Been there in my early years. You rule out nothing. The only way to know, is to check things starting at no 1.
    Here is a little drawing I just drew up for you to look at...
    If you did not do the road ring seating in process, that can be the primary problem on what you have...
    Attachment 67292
    Last edited by DennyW; 04-09-2017 at 11:22 AM.
    stovens likes this.

  15. #15
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    I've been reading thru all your other posts and find many questions that you haven't answered even tho some were repeatedly asked---Like what oil did you put in the motor and what assembly lube used on cam, lifters, bearings, cyl walls and rings????????

    Do you know what Bon Ami is??????(not a trick question, but I have a process for you to try if maybe----------Its contriversicle so I won't open that subject until we're a little further down the list)

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