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Thread: 390 vs 351c or 460 ?
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    Fheckro's Avatar
    Fheckro is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Car Year, Make, Model: 69 Mach I
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    390 vs 351c or 460 ?

     



    Hello all
    I need some input on engine choice here...


    I have a 69 Mach 1 in need of restoring/hotroding. These are the options I am considering:

    1) The car came with a 351 Cleveland, condition unknown. The engine was transplanted 20 years ago but was never fired. The Heads are not marked with a 2 or 4. they are casting DIAE-AIC. It is a Cleveland

    2) I have an FE block that is a 352ci. A friend at work wants to sell me a 427 (steel) crank with rods. That would make it a 390.

    3) I can start from scratch with a 460

    What engine do you think would bring the best value per buck to the Mach 1?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    hphillips is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Cant speak on behalf of the 351C or 460 but I can tell you any FE is kind of pricey to build. Not to say its not worth it. They are strong.

  3. #3
    FORD_MAN78's Avatar
    FORD_MAN78 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Car Year, Make, Model: 87 Ford Thunderbird
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    all i can say is that fe engines are very expensive to build but if you have the money a 390 would produce more power than the cleveland.

  4. #4
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    Car Year, Make, Model: '27 ford/'39 dodge/ '23 t
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    If you are looking to retain the value of the car itself, a 390 probably would do that the best, or maybe even the Cleveland. That would be iffy though as they wouldn't be numbers matching anyway. But from a HP per buck standpoint the 460 would get my vote. Stroker kits are pretty reasonable to get you into that 500+ CI range, but even in 30 over configuration these are monsters. Doesn't take a whole lot of mods to make them a lot of fun to drive.

    Don

  5. #5
    Daffy427's Avatar
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    For street use the Cleveland is a great choice due to the nose weight and respectable fuel mileage..Those cars corner pretty good with the small block. The 460 is a torque monster, depends on what you want to do with the car.The 390 is the only one on the list that was available from the factory in 69 if you are looking for originality... In my opinion the 390 gives you the nose weight of the 460 without the performance unless you build it up, plus it's the worst of the three to work on in a mustang.
    I remember when hot rods were all home made.

  6. #6
    shoprat's Avatar
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    Car Year, Make, Model: 57 RANCHERO
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    Simlpy put, the FE motor. Machine work is the same, pistons cost the same,
    cams are no more expensive. I don't know what costs more.. I raced FE's for
    many many years. The 460 doesnt fit for shit either. I run one in my 57.
    A Ranchero is NOT an El Camino

  7. #7
    HRTATK1 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Car Year, Make, Model: 1967 Ford Fairlane 500 390 C6 3.25
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    390 Block is 100 #'s less that 460.

     



    I believe the FE/390 block is nearly 100 lbs lighter than a 385/460. If you use AL heads, intake and waterpump on a 390 you are close to the weight of a small block 289. I can't say for sure, but I thought the use of a 460 required shock tower modification etc but someone else will know better for a mustang.
    Thanks, Josh

  8. #8
    vara4's Avatar
    vara4 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    If that is a 351C it will have a 2 or a 4 beside the valve cover on one end or the other of the head right in the corner looking down at top of valve cover, if not it's not even in the cleveland family.
    In the case you don't see it, someone was shooting sunshine up your you know what.
    No modifacations are needed in the 69 for the shock towers, they came with big blocks installed in them from the factory.the 351 windsors came in those I don't think the 69 Mach came with 351C, I could be mistaken but the clevelands were built from late 69 to early 73. more then likley
    if that came in there it would be a 351W. You can stroke the piss out the 351W and have a good weight for street racing or handling. 351 C or 351 W are both great motors and you can stroke both and were know for there performance back in the day. keep what you got and run it but put some sub frame connecters on the body or you will twist the frame. Run some Edlebrock heads, one step up from their bottom head, they work great. Kurt
    Last edited by vara4; 11-14-2009 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #9
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRTATK1 View Post
    I believe the FE/390 block is nearly 100 lbs lighter than a 385/460. If you use AL heads, intake and waterpump on a 390 you are close to the weight of a small block 289. I can't say for sure, but I thought the use of a 460 required shock tower modification etc but someone else will know better for a mustang.
    Thanks, Josh
    '67 was the last year of the tight towers on the Mustangs and Fairlanes. '68 is still a bit tight, but from '69 on the 460's will fit...Headers can be a real PITA, but nothing that can't be worked out....
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
    Carroll Shelby

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Severson View Post
    '67 was the last year of the tight towers on the Mustangs and Fairlanes. '68 is still a bit tight, but from '69 on the 460's will fit...Headers can be a real PITA, but nothing that can't be worked out....
    The towers are the same from 67 to 70... They got the torino towers in 71 but the 460 still fits if you are good with a shoehorn...Headers are a little tough though...
    I remember when hot rods were all home made.

  11. #11
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    Car Year, Make, Model: 73 pinto -80 pinto- 69 mustang 429
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    the 460 will go with relative ease .. headers and mounts can be got from mustangs unlimited in georgia but i would sugjest you stay with the 351 C and build a high reving 5 speed screamer ..iv`e a 429 in mine .. hence the name ..
    iv`e used up all my sick days at work .. can i call in dead ?

  12. #12
    Ron Lee is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    390 vs 351 or 460

     



    I'd go with the FE motor....lighter than the 460 and more stronger.

  13. #13
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    Here you go this may help you. Kurt

    Ford Engine Dimensions
    Engine Family LxWxH in inches, without carburetor. Weight in Lbs.
    221-260-289-302 29 x 24 x 27.5 460
    Boss 302 29 x 24.5 x 28.5 500
    335 Series 351 Cleveland 29 x 25.5 x 27.5 550
    351 Windsor 29 x 25 x 29 525
    FE Series 352-390-406-410-427-428 32 x 27 x 29 625
    Boss 429 34 x 30 x 30 635
    385 Series 429-460 34 x 27 x 30 720
    427 SOHC 34 x 32 x 30 680
    4.6L SOHC or DOHC 36 x 36 x 44

    The weight it the last numbers in the row, when I try to save it pulls everything back and bunches up the numbers. I don't have the weight on the last one which is the 4.6.
    Last edited by vara4; 11-17-2009 at 07:36 AM.

  14. #14
    hotrodstude is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    which engine did the 69 come with???351w,390,428 were the only opts. the boss 429's were sent to karkraft to be modified for the 429 boss. but there is so much more hp. you can wring out of the 385 series.ihave a 494 in my galaxie with 4-speed and you can go up to 815 cid on the block if you have the money.if you want to make money out of the mach 1 restore it,you'll get more for it. most of the machs have been modified in some shape or form. by the way the 494 is a "can-am" engine used in the early 70's.alum block and heads,but i have regular police heads from 1973,milder cam and offy intake with holley 3-barrel.

  15. #15
    Fheckro's Avatar
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    Thanks all,

    Those are some interesting thoughts. This car was a 351W from the factory. the mill is long gone, so numbers matching end product is doubtful(did ford stamp vin on block in 69?).

    Even if they didn't , I am more of a hotrodder. My brother swears that hotroded muscle cars are bringing as much at auction as the "restored" ones. Don't know bout that cause I don't watch those things (time), but he seems adamant. Any one want to add to that?

    I've got about a years worth of other stuff before I get to the Mach so I can take my time and plan this thing. Your inputs are valuable and I appreciate every one of them.

    HOSS429 :

    is that a BOSS?

    vara4:

    I have had the local experts look at it, It is a C, but the 2 or 4 stamp is missing. Everyone who looks at it is baffled. The casting # is DIAE-AIC. If you can identify it you will win the prize!
    Last edited by Fheckro; 11-22-2009 at 07:32 AM.

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