I could probably buy a 3w Deuce coupe for less than what it will cost me to build it, but I just want to build it. I want to start fenderless. The question is - what do I need to be aware of so I can add fenders later if I decide to make the change?
Printable View
I could probably buy a 3w Deuce coupe for less than what it will cost me to build it, but I just want to build it. I want to start fenderless. The question is - what do I need to be aware of so I can add fenders later if I decide to make the change?
Aside from having to drill holes in the frame for fenders and running boards, you will want to make sure anything you mount, like shock brackets, etc. will clear the fenders later on. I would think your rear end tire to tire width would also be important so they will properly tuck under the rear fenders.......otherwise it will end up looking like some of the cars built in the 70's and 80's.
If your frame is fully boxed gaining access to the inside of the frame to put nuts on the new fender bolts might be an issue, but that could be planned for and built in.
Don
You will need a rear end ... no wider than 58 inches wide ... wheel mounting flange to wheel mounting flange. A 56 inch
wide one is even better.
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1431441691.jpg
My 32 3W has a 56 inch wide 9 inch Ford under it. :D
I would suggest a 46 inch king pin front axle width.
( no suggestions for a IFS ... I do not build 32's with them ).
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1431429641.jpg
I always make my wheelbase 106 and 3/4 inches. The rear axle is moved rearward a extra 3/4 of a inch. The extra 3/4 of a inch centers the wheels in the fender ... better than the stock 106 wheelbase.
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1913591141.jpg
Finished 3W ... :)
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2316224190.jpg
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2316222452.jpg
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2307565301.jpg
See how the tires and rims are up UNDER the fenders ?? ;)
Both my 32's are built the same ... axle width, wheelbase and components.
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2316220811.jpg
http://www.carnut.com/photo/1932/32frd45.jpg
This photo is at least 25 years old ... but see how the stock wheelbase makes the wheels/rims sit TOO FAR FORWARD ?
The rear end is too wide also
BUT this was considered a very good looking wll built 32 ... back in the 70's :D
One thing to consider is front hairpin or 4 link mounting. If you want fenders later you probably do not want the through-frame-mount, but instead would tab down below the frame.
Radiator and grille shell location is very important now if considering full fenders later. It's necessary to have room for the headlamp mounting bar later.
Mike
Thanks guys. This is all good information for the build.
check with your local law enforcement people(cops) to see if it is legal. if you have state safety inspections check with them also. i did not a few years back and altered the rear height of my 1969 ford galaxie and was stoped an ticketed for having to high fo a rear bumber.the legal limit was 21" from the top of the bumber to the ground. i was 23".so the day i went to court i had the bumber right at 21". the court measured the height and case was dismissed after a lecture by the judge.i had been in his court before but all the cases were dismissed because i always corrected the problem before i went to court.
just a word of advice.:eek::D
Good point. I will check, but down here in Florida most anything goes. I lived in Connecticut and Massachusetts before that and there were a lot of restictions.
hey Deuce!! what front spring do you use? are there different weight ratings??? thanks peteQuote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
dup here in ga. we have no emmisions or safety inspections like you down in fla. i live out in the county.
I suggest a TCI front spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by prpmmp
# 400-4510-00
List $133.00 ( but mine is the CHROME one ... # 400-4510-01 ) :rolleyes:
It is ( eye to eye ) 29.5 inches and made for a 46 inch king pin to king pin axle. :D
Deuce,
Thanks for the heads up. The frame in your pictures shows the shock mount from the side of the frame and the lower 4 bar mount down low. In order to clear the fender the height and the angle of the shock mount must be taken into consideration too, right?
thanks!! peteQuote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Yes, I just bought the complete front 4 bar suspension set up from TCI.Quote:
Originally Posted by florida
Most everything on my chassis came from TCI except I used the original 1932 Henry Ford frame rails that originally came under the coupe.
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1431425940.jpg
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1431418910.jpg
You can click on this
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ge=1&reverse=1
and see a small photo journal of the construction of the 32 3W coupe.
There are a few non 3W related photos but it is mostly 1932 3W construction stuff.
:)
So if I understand correctly, I need to mount the 4 link down low, right? Like this Deuce?Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...hopped-05a.jpg
I'm not sure that the Deuce pictured would fit fenders - I will defer to someone with more experience. As you look at the picture the upper mount is quite close to the reveal line, which I believe is the fender line? Hairpins mounted on a tab below the frame rail is probably safest, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by florida
Most of the front four link kits that are made Deuce specific will work on either a fendered or non-fendered car.... If in doubt, call the company that makes the 4 link kit before you buy one.....
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...hopped-05a.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
See where the upper 4 bar is located on the frame rail ?
Then again here on my 32 chassis
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1848237210.jpg
Then again, my chassis with the fenders installed :D
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1913591142.jpg
The 4 bar set up from TCI ( and MOST of the others :) ) will clear front fenders ... installed in their original position.
In my opinion :confused:
the 4 bar setup is vastly better than a hairpin setup.
1 ) more ground clearance
2 ) the axle has less king pin caster change during axle movement UP/DOWN
3 ) better ride
4 ) easier to adjust caster
If you do not understand toe - in, caster and camber
Do yourself a favor and go here
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
Florida,
My use of the word "safest" above was related to your question of the flexibility to be able to run fenders later without having to make modifications, not to infer the safety of the system or to reopen the age old "discussion":rolleyes: on which is better, hairpins or four bar.
As for opinions, like belly buttons everyone has one, and people tend to look at their own as being best, which is perfectly OK. For me, the Grand Canyon is vast, and I don't see how a four bar can give more ground clearance than a hairpin. A picture is worth a thousand words, and Deuce has given you pictures of the fender line against a TCI four bar which answers your question about being able to run fenders later, whatever you choose to hook to your frame.
Now to the real question. Why would you want to run fenders on a hot rod??? :D
Fenders? You don't need no stinkin' fenders! LOL!
http://www.carnut.com/show/05/skat/kat002.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by rspears
Most hairpin set ups attach to a bracket that hangs lower than the one shown above. ( not my car :LOL: ).
I believe the lowest part of the hairpin is lower than my low point 4 bar.
From a engineering stand point ... the 4 bar is superior ... because of the 4 moving points verus only three for the hairpin. The 4 bar is a parallelogram. Caster is more consistent.
I will agree that a hairpin setup LOOKS more old timey and traditional and can be SAFE.
Just my nickel's worth :D
Can't disagree that the caster is more consistent, but I based my choice on my understanding of the history, which R&C compiled quite well some time back. http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/...ils/index.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
As I understand it, the front links, panhard bar and steering link all form a system, and with a cross link steering box location the problems of bump steer are minimized. Given that a dropped axle front end only has maybe +3" of travel, and that the ideal caster is a range of 6-8 degrees for a road car, the change to caster is not as critical as it once was, especially if you are running radial tires. For me, the choice comes back to the look as much as the function, assuming that you have the steering question addressed. Mine's being assembled as a drilled I-beam, Vega style cross steering, and hairpins mounted through the frame rail, because that is the look that I like. I hope that I don't regret it.
I have owned cars with both 4-bars and hairpins and can't relly tell the difference in ride and handling between the two. I believe the small amount of caster change in an early ford front end is of little consequence.
I personally like the look of hairpins even on a full fendered car. My rpu sits pretty low and has long hairpins on a small tab under the frame and has been no problem with ground clearance.
I would go with your personal preference, 4-bar or hairpin.
Mick
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by rspears
:D
That is the COOL thing about Hot Rodding ... rather than restoring :)
As long as it is safe ... there is no specific " correct " way.
I have owned 32 Fords since the 70's and the ones I had with a hairpin did not ride as well as my 4 bar equipped Deuces. If the frame mount for the end of the hairpin is on the lower part of the frame rails ... that is the better way for doing hair pins IMHO. But a LOT of hairpin setups use these aluminum brackets ( which are safe ) but ground clearance suffers.
http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/9b/34/38ca_1.JPG
I have never seen the aluminum brackets. Who made them?
Years ago :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by florida
Every HOT ROD magazine had ads for them. They were made by PSI Industries I believe. Honest Charley's sold them by the hundreds.
( Honest Charleys was like Summit Racing and Jeg's are now .. Major mail order supplier ).
With the three bolt holes as a pattern, it made drilling a frame almost mistake proof and the brackets made installing front ends easier
for those who could not weld :rolleyes: I bought and installed 3 or 4 sets ... 25 to 35 years ago.
There are always a few sets for sale on eBay ... NEW :)
____________________________________________
http://www.carnut.com/show/04/pbo/nat0763.jpg
http://www.projectthx138.com/Clones/...20%20Frame.jpg
This was a typical 50's/60's 32 front end setup ( the 32's above )
Some used a stock wishbone and split it while the " MORE " $$$ crowd bought the hairpins. The really $$$ crowd bought CHROME hairpins.
Below is another very popular bracket ... back in the day ... same as the aluminum PSI in function, but easy to made at home ...
but they were available over the counter also. The metal ones ( non aluminum ones ) look even more traditional IMHO.
:D
http://www.projectthx138.com/photoga.../Doug%2012.jpg
My 3 window is being built as if it would have been built back in 1964, with a lot of help and great advice from Deuce along the way. From the outside only parts that were available back then will be visible. Although 4 link was available 44 years ago most people were still using hairpins, as am I.
Mine are mounted about an inch up the frame rails which gives plenty of ground clearance as can be seen in these pics.
http://hotrodsandhemis.com/DeuceExhaust/IMG_1144a.JPG
http://hotrodsandhemis.com/DeuceFram.../IMG_1497a.JPG
http://hotrodsandhemis.com/DeuceExhaust/IMG_1701a.JPG
That's the only way to mount them as far as I'm concerned. There's no chance of a weld coming apart or metal fatigue causing a lower bracket to fail.
Last time i was at Vintage Speed in Vero Beach Charlie was repopping them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida
Would you happen to have the Ebay link to them ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Thanks for the feedback. I might check out that shop the next time I am in Vero Beach.