Thread: ’32 3W Coupe roller package advise/opinions wanted

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Dave, thanks!! I know all to well how threads can get sidetracked quickly. I'm a site manager (among several others) of one of the largest Harley sites on the net, we are mainly a technical site and debates happen often. We try to hold a tight rein to keep it on the technical side but loose enough for everyone to enjoy themselves.

Thanks for the words of wisdom and for getting back on track!!

Mike

A informed buyer is a lot better off ... when he is getting ready to spend his money and make the 1 to 3 year committment to build a car.

Deuce, your comment is exactly the reason I came to this site, to become better informed and learn from the guys that have 'been there and done that', and have the t-shirt to prove it.....lol

I may be a newbie to the street rod building world, but I'm not a rookie at building things. I have a background in muscle cars, drag cars and for the past 10 years, motorcycles (the bikes that are ridden, not trailer queens).

I'm also not looking for someone else’s recipe for what they think is the way to go, I'm looking for ideas and suggestions, I also don’t need the top of the line, must have the best, most expensive piece there is, I shop for quality, not costly. I'd also like to hear about parts, shops, businesses to avoid, I don't want the costly mistakes either. I have a certain budget to work within, but I don't have a certain time frame to have it completed, I have lots of patience (reread my background message).

Thanks for your help,
Mike

It's been my experience that the big companies occasionally sacrifice customer service for the big volume..... All the name brand parts and suppliers are kewl, if you're just out to be a name dropper at the next cruise night.... Careful comparison shopping can often turn up a better deal, sometimes in price and sometimes in quality....

Having been a small shop owner I'll again mention checking locally for a builder.... There's some very high quality builders around who don't go in for the big name, big ad budget, big volume but rather sit back and do one at a time builds with the emphasis on quality and customer satisfaction.... Do your research well on you local area assets before you pick up the big catalog and pay the freight charges for an assembly line special..... But then I'm probably a bit biased because of my own experience....

And no, I'm not looking for work.....way more then I can handle now....But I'd betcha even money there's a couple local builders in your area who can build exactly what you want in a timely manner and maybe even save you a buck or three in the process....

Dave, I think that you and I are more on the same page, I’ll gladly take your advice.

In the bike world, I don’t care for manufacturers that carve their logo or name into everything, I'm definitely not a name dropper, I like the low key, subtle approach. An example, I rode my bike with some friends to a big bike event a couple of years ago, we parked in the lot with everyone else. Later in the evening my friends said that the announcer was calling over the PA system for the owner of such & such bike to come to the stage and insisted it was my bike. I thought they were jerking my chain, but they literally drug me toward the stage. Much to my surprise, my bike had been chosen the 'People's Choice Award'. When the MC presented me with a trophy and asked me to describe my bike to the crowd, all I could think of was, "it's nothing special". Even my wife said later, "after 8 years of building it, that's all you could come up with".......lol

When checking out rides, I don't get caught up in high $$ billet wheels, mega $$ paint jobs, or in the case of cars, high end interior work. My eyes go for the special small details, the true craftsmanship of building. That's the reason I'm intrigued with Ken Thurm's '32 project, I can't wait to see his next posts. I don't have access to the resources that he does, my car would never equal his (or come close), but the ideas I got from someone like him are priceless. When I see things that he does and other people as well (Deuce is included here), I add them to a spreadsheet I have called Street Rod Project Ideas. The more I browse around the net at different projects, the longer the list gets. I also save photos of things I see as well ( I won't mention Deuce again, he will probably want a fee). I’m learning more and more every day.

Thanks,
Mike

Bob, your advice is appreciated. I completely understand what works for one person may not work well for another, the steering column thread is a good example. Your example about the Tea's seats is another good one, choosing a comfortable seat is at the top of one of my lists. I had back surgery the day after Christmas (another reason I'm giving up the bike experience) so the right seat is very important. This will be one of those situations where a 'catalog' seat won't work for me, I will have to sit my butt in a few to find the right one.

iceburgh (eventually I'll get to know these guy's real names), it's information like yours that I'm searching for, an honest recommendation from someone that has actually used a product, thanks a lot!!!

Mike

Deuce, I can tell you are a die hard Deuce owner, and very passionate about your steel '32s. I've saved some pics of your project on the coupe and I value your information and knowledge. I'm sure I'll have many more questions in the future.

In my opinion ... the Wescott is at least TWICE as good as a N&N ... but unfortunately they cost three times as much.

I have looked at the Wescott bodies and agree, they are probably the top of the line fiberglass body on the market, but you are also right about the price. By the time you factor in some of their options, they are only slightly lower in price than some of the steel bodies on the market which I already eliminated from my build budget. I'm looking to spend around $20k for a body and chassis combo only, then continue on from there. $20k wouldn't even get me a Wescott body with simple options, so I need to look elsewhere unless you know where I can get a sweet deal on one. Some of the things that are important to you and others are not so important to me, I don't want/need a cowl vent, ribbed firewall, or chrome windshield frame, but I do want to find something in my budget that comes recommended as a quality product, once again, that's the intent of my original post. Going back to my early days as a kid interested in cars, I always thought the street rod hobby was about being different, it would be pretty sad to see the same cars with only different paint.

Mike

Originally Posted by Mike52

Some of the things that are important to you and others are not so important to me, I don't want/need a cowl vent, ribbed firewall, or chrome windshield frame,
Mike

Then you have found your coupe body ...
A N&N 3W can be bought with a chassis ... in your budget range ... with money left over for other things you will need.

That's the cool thing about Hot Rods ... not restored cars. You can do want you want to ... as long as it is a safe vehicle and be OK. With a restored vehicle ... it can only be one way ... the factory way.

I've never restored a vehicle in my life. The factories just weren't that good.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

I've never restored a vehicle in my life. The factories just weren't that good.

Me neither Jack, but try to explain that to Bob, he wouldn't let me touch his old Mopar.... heck, threatened me with voodoo, Egyptian curses and all kinds of stuff...and all I wanted to do was a tiny bit of "restructuring" on the roofline!!!!!!

Now that we've covered the very basics like, it's going to cost twice as much as estimated, take twice as long as anticipated, and steel or 'glass, it's time to ask more questions. We touched on this very briefly, well as least Deuce touched on it, let's talk about front suspensions.

I've noticed the cost of roller chassis are roughly the same with straight axle set-ups or IFS. Personally, I like the look of the more modern IFS. What are the pros and cons of these front suspensions on a set of Deuce rails, the difference in ride quality, the ability to set or adjust ride height, ability to make changes to adjust for ride quality, etc?

Mike

BTW - I just noticed you are in Tampa - cool. I'm in Daytona - I've built over 200 '32 chassis in the last 10 years and 30+ turnkey '32 Fords.

My current Roadster - my Sedan - and the chassis we build -

Originally Posted by Mike52

Now that we've covered the very basics like, it's going to cost twice as much as estimated, take twice as long as anticipated, and steel or 'glass, it's time to ask more questions. We touched on this very briefly, well as least Deuce touched on it, let's talk about front suspensions.

I've noticed the cost of roller chassis are roughly the same with straight axle set-ups or IFS. Personally, I like the look of the more modern IFS. What are the pros and cons of these front suspensions on a set of Deuce rails, the difference in ride quality, the ability to set or adjust ride height, ability to make changes to adjust for ride quality, etc?

Mike

Personally, I do not like the looks of a hiboy with IFS unless it has a pinched frame. IMO, they look clunky. With fenders it doesn't matter. I built my deuce with a pinched frame utilizing a Heidt stainless steel Superide IFS because I was going for a modern smoothie California style. As far as ride goes, I don't think it matters much. With a short wheel base, you will get a somewhat choppy ride either way. You do have more adjustability with the IFS because you can adjust the shock rebound and adjust the coilovers for ride height. I do like the rack and pinion steering. Essentially, it comes down to a matter of taste and the style of the car you want.

If you look at the steel structure inside of the Wescott body - it is a stand alone assembly. The fiberglass itself is not structural - the doors are hung on the steel framework, they latch on the steel structure, the dovetails are mounted to the steel structure. The steel structure runs through the rockers from the firewall to the rearmost body mount hole - and each body bolt passes through this assembly.

There is a reason why they have been in business so long.

The Wescott accepts all stock Ford window channels, glass sweeps, window regulators, door latches, door hinges, etc, etc. If you scotchbrite and prime one up - it would take a highly trained eye to identify it as glass from 20' away.

You have mentioned that you do not care about a stock style firewall, or steel windshield frame, etc. But you need to to ride in and or drive a 'glass bodied coupe from one of the popular makes - choose one, redneck, outlaw, bebob, heritage, whatever. I've been involved with severl builds using those bodies, and they are nothing like riding in a stock Ford body.

Go to a car show and open and shut the door on a stock Model A - the doors latch like a light switch - the dovetails keep all rattling down to a minimum. The 3 hinge design on the 3w coupe supports the doors weight properly, etc, etc.

But it is quite hard for anyone to impart upon you the value of spending the extra money on a body - there are those of us that bought and built cars using low end bodies, were aggravated with them, built cars with better bodies and were happy with them. Those people will try to advise you to buy the better body the first time - but the higher cost with most likely deter you from doing so. It is the tiny intangible things that make all the difference in the world when it comes to buying a higher quality body - they seem so minor when typed into a post on a message board - but 2+ years into a project, they sure add up.

Maybe if those people who bought $5k bodies, got frustrated, bailed out on the project, sold it on ebay for 70 cents on the dollar - if those people were still involved in the hobby and still posted on message board about this hobby - they would tell you the same things the experienced builders are telling you.

Good luck with your build.

The ride and handling of an IFS, when set up properly, is great.... On a fendered deuce comprimises have to be made in the placement and geometry of the upper a-arms... They still work and ride good, but not as good as on a non-fendered car where the suspension can be designed to work to it's full potential.

Heidt's, Kugel, and a number of other companies have some very well planned out IFS's for a deuce, and many other cars as well. I did a '28 roadster on deuce rails a number of years back, all Kugel front and rear suspension, thing handles like a slot car!!!! We built the car with a lot of race car pieces and not necessarily a lot of the "niceties" that most think a Hot Rod must have... IE, a lot of engine setback, front and mid plates instead of rubber mounts for the engine and trans. Powered it with a 408 Windsor and a 5 speed. The car is an absolute blast to drive!!!!----and the purists hate it!!!!!

As for adjustability, it's all in favor of the IFS and IRS there.... Add some front and rear sway bars with adjustable end links, double adjustable coilover shocks, even the "good stuff" with the remote reservoirs for the shocks. Play with the mount locations and use longer coilovers and springs for more travel, progressive rate springs.... When you do all this, sharpen up your math and geometry to figure the instant centers, roll centers, bump steer, weight transfer...Oh yeah, and when you're building and tuning have a set of 4 wheel electronic scales.... You can tweak the suspension around and play with shock and spring rates to make the car do whatever you want it to do...

Not that it matters, but someplace on my list of things to do is a quick change IRS, complete with inboard disc brakes.....then I can play with gear ratios all day long, too!!!!!!!!

Speedy, thanks for the advice. If you care to drop me a PM with your name, address and phone number, I'll look you up the next time I come over to the other coast.

Dave, in case you can't tell be now, I'm not a 'purists', they are on the other side of the fence.......LOL, sorry again Deuce.

Back in the '90s I played with cars that required a good understanding of instant centers, roll centers, weight transfer, etc. Even had a set of 4 digital scales to put the car on to measure the individual corner weights. Those cars were a little different though. I'll attempt to post a couple of pics.

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I'll bet that wasn't what you expected.............LOL
I used to race 1/10th and 1/8th scale radio controlled race cars all over the southeast. This one is what we called a 'concrete oval' (Nascar style) 1/10th scale car. I'm sure some of you car nuts did the same thing at one time or another.

Mike