Thread: ’32 3W Coupe roller package advise/opinions wanted

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[QUOTE=Deuce]

Ya know what??? I could almost take all that to mean your one of them there steel is real snobbery guys...... I've had steel one's and had glass one's.... They all lost their interest to me when they become soooooooo dang common everywhere ya go.... Takes a really outstanding deuce to even catch my interest now, something like Ken Thurm's that show's such superb worksmanship, quality, and originality. Guess I'm just suffering from deuce (original and 'glass) burnout......... Just so many other years, models, and makes that present themselves as a car that just needs hot roddin'!!!!

[QUOTE=Dave Severson]

Originally Posted by Deuce

Ya know what??? I could almost take all that to mean your one of them
there steel is real snobbery guys...... !!!!

I did not mean it to sound that way ...
BUT ... the fact of the matter is ... fiberglass cars are very plentiful ...
and the supply has redimished the demand.

Rumrumm 's coupe ... is a nice coupe. He is not worried about the resale value ... cause it is not for sale.
He built it for his own pleasure and enjoyment.
I am the same way with my 3W ... building it to suit me ... not anyone else
and I am WAY UPSIDE down moneywise ... and do not care
It is not for sale ...

New folks to the 32 world see eBay auctions like this one ...



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1932-...QQcmdZViewItem

Where you can get this for 7 grand and think they can be riding in a car like the one Icebergh has for another 10 grand
or so ( we know that is not possible ) so the finished cars do not bring the money ... spent on them.
Especially true of " rodder built " cars ... where the home rod builder did not cut any corners
( new engine/transmission ect ) and did not get a wholesale break of 20 to 40 per cent on the parts used.


Icebergh has tired of his coupe ... and wants something else ...
Sadly ... if he spends the same kind of money on a 47 to 53 Chevy pickup
He will be right back where he is now ... with a nice ride, plenty of money
spent ... and not enough demand to buy it ... because the supply
of those trucks exceeds demand.

Supply and Demand ... simple

[QUOTE=Deuce]

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I did not mean it to sound that way ...
BUT ... the fact of the matter is ... fiberglass cars are very plentiful ...
and the supply has redimished the demand.

Rumrumm 's coupe ... is a nice coupe. He is not worried about the resale value ... cause it is not for sale.
He built it for his own pleasure and enjoyment.
I am the same way with my 3W ... building it to suit me ... not anyone else
and I am WAY UPSIDE down moneywise ... and do not care
It is not for sale ...

New folks to the 32 world see eBay auctions like this one ...



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1932-...QQcmdZViewItem

Where you can get this for 7 grand and think they can be riding in a car like the one Icebergh has for another 10 grand
or so ( we know that is not possible ) so the finished cars do not bring the money ... spent on them.
Especially true of " rodder built " cars ... where the home rod builder did not cut any corners
( new engine/transmission ect ) and did not get a wholesale break of 20 to 40 per cent on the parts used.


Icebergh has tired of his coupe ... and wants something else ...
Sadly ... if he spends the same kind of money on a 47 to 53 Chevy pickup
He will be right back where he is now ... with a nice ride, plenty of money
spent ... and not enough demand to buy it ... because the supply
of those trucks exceeds demand.

Supply and Demand ... simple

I am in good shape with the truck. Bought it for $2000 with a trans-am. Striped the parts off of the TA I needed ( clip colum, pedals, rear motor and tranny had to rebuild them)and sold the rest for $250.
Interior was left over from my '32 seats ( free) came from a caddy out of a scrap yard. Paint wire and rad were free. A/C and guages were 40% off
So I had to buy a new tailgate , glass ,one running board and wheels/tires at full price.
Right now I am in to it for about 11K and it should be done in the next few weeks if I get on the ball.
Maybe by Reinbeck if not then Pocono

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...uck/?start=all

Not really tired of the coupe but need the room. Like I said even if I dont drive it often it cost less than $300 a year to keep. So I still think it was a good investment due to the fact I like it and I built it my way.
I agree with what you say about supply and demand but also dont forget there will always be people that want these type of cars and trucks that dont have the time or skill to build them.

I get tired of mine and sell them all the time.....but not at a loss, either. My point is with a deuce, the market is loaded and more then likely stacked against you.... No matter what you're selling, there's a bunch more just like it (or nearly so) for sale. Maybe your's is different, and somehow unique in certain ways, but the average buyer doesn't see that. He sees the car itself and all the others that are similar and goes bargain hunting....

One offs and one of a kind don't suffer from this problem, they have the problem of a limited market and having to wait to find the just right buyer.... I fit in this catagory, I set my price based on what I have in it and what I honestly feel the market will bare..... Then sit on it at my price till the right buyer comes along.... IMO it's a whole lot better way to sell then to enter the market with a car that has a ton of others just like it and having to play the price war game.....

I don't mean this to sound like a put down on deuces, just some of the things I've learned from buying and selling cars and parts in the Hot Rod market for the last 40 years..... The only advice I would offer is be unique and be yourself in what you build. A copy cat car is just that, a copy cat. Be honest with yourself and build what you want just the way you want it, but at the same time keep an eye on where you are at money wise... Very few people build one car and keep it forever.... Keep in mind that someday you'll want to build something else, and because of a variety of reasons this car will have to find a new home.....

Guys, first of all, I want to thank all of you for your insight and information and I do truly appreciate it, but my intention with this thread was not a debate over the ‘flooded market of Deuces’ or the value of my car down the road if I ever decided to sell it (at my age, not likely to happen, the wife will have that concern), not the value of a steel or fiberglass body (I already mentioned in my original post that a steel body was out of my budget), and certainly not the ‘dime a dozen’ attitude about building a Deuce Coupe.

I’m not trying to be brash or disrespectful at all, please do not take it that way. I started this thread to gather information for a project that I’ve always wanted to do, a Deuce Coupe. The thread was intended to found out the quality of the samples given and to find out other possible choices to get me headed in the right direction for a safe, reliable, fun car project.

My main concerns are finding reputable companies that sell quality products. I’m not looking for the cheapest products out there, I won’t buy a body/frame package from someone on eBay building these things in Grandpa’s barn. I was looking for solid information from the seasoned, everyday guys like you who have done this work before and could/would steer a new guy along the path.

Can we please get back on track?

Thanks,
Mike

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

My point is with a deuce, the market is loaded and more then likely stacked against you.... No matter what you're selling, there's a bunch more just like it (or nearly so) for sale.

Originally Posted by Mike52

Can we please get back on track?

Thanks,
Mike

I believe we are on track
The process of finding the right parts and pieces cannot be separated from their assembled overall value IMHO. Seeing what repro bodies and pieces bring the better money at sale time ... is to me a clear indicator of their reputation and the quality built in them. Dave Severson and I both are on the same page ... just different places on the page. We both believe building a repro fiberglass Deuce can be a costly experience than if one is not careful ... can be a very expensive lesson in economics 101.

Like the Street Beast thread on going on the net elsewhere ... http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/stre...its-13109.html

A informed buyer is a lot better off ... when he is getting ready to spend his money and make the 1 to 3 year committment to build a car.

I am NOT trying to get to to NOT build a car ... nor am I trying to get you to build a steel car ... I just want to go into this with your eyes wide open.

Originally Posted by Mike52

My main concerns are finding reputable companies that sell quality products.

Thanks,
Mike

Get out your checkbook ... then ...

1) buy a Wescott 32 3W body
2) buy a So-Cal frame or TCI chassis stage III
3) buy a new crate engine and transmission.
4) buy a Walker radiator
5) buy a Vintage Air Generation II mini air unit
6) Buy a Tea's seat
7) buy a wiring kit from Ron Francis

The above are some of the best known suppliers in the street rod world ... and have been so for a good while. They have earned a good reputation by selling quality parts.

Originally Posted by Deuce

Get out your checkbook ... then ...

1) buy a Wescott 32 3W body -The Rod Shop (glass)
2) buy a So-Cal frame or TCI chassis stage III-The Rod Shop Stage I
3) buy a new crate engine and transmission.-Custom Pro-built 406 SBC,700r4
4) buy a Walker radiator-Aluminum custom w/tranny cooler and a/c condenser
5) buy a Vintage Air Generation II mini air unit-Hot Rod Air Elite Model
6) Buy a Tea's seat-Ford Explorer Used
7) buy a wiring kit from Ron Francis-American Hwy 22

The above are some of the best known suppliers in the street rod world ... and have been so for a good while. They have earned a good reputation by selling quality parts.

Mike as you can see by the comparison of my parts Manufacturing to Deuce's list you do have a lot of options.Even though my build was a 34 3/W the parts are similar in pricing.
I ran a tape on all my costs right down to travel costs to pick up the chassis and body(Indiana,Pa) and I shopped a lot at Home Depot, Local Hdw.and speed shops.The total was 39,624.00.Of course labor is free.LOL,LOL

My build took 16 Mo.to complete,that included build trouble shoot,tear down complete,paint(4000) and upholstery(1200 deal),included in total.

I encountered some problems but that is why we are all here on the forum to help each other out and help they did.It had been a while since I had built at this level.
Hope this helps,Good Luck

A link that I found very helpful in the build www.seattlestreetrods.com

Just a couple more thoughts along the lines we're going. Though my sentiments are more aligned with Randy's view than Dave's these points will work either way.

This is neither a negative comment on N&N, Redneck (who might be out of business or changed hands), or any of the other brands lauded here, nor an endorsement, but if I were in the glass 3W market I'd lean heavily toward the Wescott. True they cost more, but when you're flirting with $40k total, a few grand more for the extra quality is a comparative drop in the bucket. It's sometimes tempting to save a buck here, save a buck there (which is not all bad because it contains "bracket creep"), but sometimes a few bucks more is a wise move.

Another point is, you're in full control of your outcome. Take the time, as it appears you're doing, to learn, learn, learn. Then mix that with some practical investigation, or hands on investigation. I'll point to another thread that's running currently. It asks about what's the "right" length for a deuce steering column. There's somewhat of a consensus there, but also some deviation. My point in that thread was that we can point an individual in a good general direction, but it's up to them to test what we've done against their specific situation, needs, tastes and so on. This is a custom built car..........emphasis on the custom (or tailored if you prefer)

In a similar vein, try out things like seats as an example. Randy mentioned Tea's Design. These are a very popular item, lots of rods have them. The one's I've seen look very well built and if they had any construction issues we'd likely have heard of them. That being said, I got my first chance to sit in one at the '96 Nats. They had a mock up display and I parked my butt in the seat for about 10 minutes. That little "scoopy back" thing they do may work well for most folks, but it gave me a heck of a back ache. I'm obviously incompatible with what might work for many others. So spend some time, as suggested earlier, at some of these larger events, and don't be afraid to talk to folks with parts that interest you at local events, and try stuff on "for size" and see if it works for you.

[QUOTE=Bob Parmenter]Just a couple more thoughts along the lines we're going. Though my sentiments are more aligned with Randy's view than Dave's these points will work either way.
QUOTE]


Geez Bob---Hard to believe that you and I would not concur on the look and build of a Hot Rod..... Heck, I'm still hurt that you wouldn't let me do a bit of a tune up on that old white Dodge!!!!!! (Really hurt my feelings on that one!!!!! )

Mike,
I am lucky enough to have a job that pays me to go to car shows and I talk with many people. Customers and other vendors so you see and hear all some things just make you wonder why?
But with that being said I also get to see and hear all the good and bad about vendors and the product they sell.
There is a list above that is a good list for quality parts. But there are others IMO that are just as good or better out there.
IMO N&N is as good as Westcott but have not been around as long and are just getting the reputatiion that Westcott and Redneck have had for a while. People build a better mouse trap every day and I feel Duane has. I love my car and I feel the quality is as good or better than anyone else out there.
I also feel that kwik wire is every bit as good as Ron Francis and a better value.
I have used RF in 2 builds and used KW in the last 5. The only advantage is with RF you run the wire to the box with KW they are in the box and you run them out to where they are going. This can make for a little of a hassle until you get them seperated. But 5 minutes and you are set. KW also have a built in kill switch in all units that will help with theft.
Teas I dont care for..... great product but I am not crazy about the people and the customer service and to me that is just as important as the product.

Originally Posted by Deuce

Get out your checkbook ... then ...

1) buy a Wescott 32 3W body
2) buy a So-Cal frame or TCI chassis stage III
3) buy a new crate engine and transmission.
4) buy a Walker radiator
5) buy a Vintage Air Generation II mini air unit
6) Buy a Tea's seat
7) buy a wiring kit from Ron Francis

The above are some of the best known suppliers in the street rod world ... and have been so for a good while. They have earned a good reputation by selling quality parts.

They may have the name recognition, but I would not buy a So-Cal frame again. Mine was too narrow in the back for a stock tank or spreader bar; the driveshaft hits a crossmember on some bumps; even though it has a dropout trans mount you can't pull the 4-speed trans with the motor in place because of another crossmember; and with a manual trans the brake pedal hit the clutch throwout arm. I wasn't very impressed by those flaws, and they wouldn't respond to my complaints at all. That's just my story; others may have had more positive experiences.

Originally Posted by new 32 roadster

I would not buy a So-Cal frame again. Mine was too narrow in the back for a stock tank or spreader bar.

It is a fairly well known FACT that most reproduction 1932 Ford frames are purposely built a little more narrow than what Henry Ford did. The reproduction fiberglass bodies are thicker in the rocker area and have trouble getting on a dead on original frame. TCI frames have the same issue. It is way easier to make a chassis a little more narrow ( user friendly ) than dead on.

That's why I have a copy of the original Ford 32 Frame blueprint ... and ... always use a original set of rails in a frame jig.

Just another two cents worth. I "refurbished" a '47 Ford Convertible but did not respect the weak transmission. I handpainted a very solid '31 Fordor with a brush but did not realize the eventual value of the car. I went through many "family cars", mostly station wagons while the kids were young and then I did buy and fix a running but incorrectly assembled Sand Rover dune buggy and went through several VW engines and then went through four engines in a '66 Beetle (one with a Judson supercharger on the street) then restored a MG midget from a hulk with a tree growing up through it, all the while keeping track of the early Deuce 'glass replicas hoping some day to have a Deuce roadster but it was always out of the economic picture so I decided that it would be cheaper to build a '29 and chose the Bebops with a one-piece floor-fender unit. Anyway based on a very precise Brookville frame it was a real JOY so assemble the dropped axle front end and paint the frame and then get the fittings welded onto a Maverick rear and at that point it did seem that it would be cheap to finish when I found a velour seat from a Dodge van that fits exactly for only $15! I only spent about $1500 on the engine, another $1400 on a beefed up 700R4 and $650 to refit the ring and pinion and bearings in the Maverick rear. Paint was only $1800 but needs touchup. Then the nitty gritty problems started to show up with details. I was comforted by IC2 who admitted he had multiples of items which he tried and my shop is accumulating multiple useless items that did not work out. The point is that if you shop around for the paint job you should be able to do it for $2000 or less but the details can be overwhelming. At present I am starting to grit my teeth and accept the challenge that Bob has mentioned: barring a health problem I am going to finish this project!!!!!! I thought I had enough experience with previous projects to attempt a complete build but I never imagined all the detailed problems. In particular if you repair or restore a production model you just buy parts and bolt them on. When you build a 'glass car almost every piece has to be figured out in your head and hand fitted, usually with a rat tail file! The constant engineering of smaller parts has made me weary several times, BUT I will finsh this project as long as my health permits! Sooo you can do it, it will take longer than you think and it will cost a lot more than you think BUT the main thing is to have the mental tenacity to get past one small bracket design after another and another. I think I am past most of these bracket design problems and I am learning to depend more and more on purchas of stuff that is engineered by the aftermarket folks but eventually you have to make some stuff fit on your own or get a pro to do it. So far the only stuff I have farmed out was the paint, the ring-and-pinion change in the rear and three small welding jobs by a local guy who has a roving welding truck. The main thing I am saying here is that at some point you either have to farm out some of the job OR be able to make/adapt your own brackets and nitty gritty fitting of stuff that "almost fits". The work that Ken Sturm shows is out of this world in complexity and high quality workmanship, but when you sit in yout shop/garage and just have to visualize a bracket for some dingus just bear down and think/visualize how to do it the simplest practical way and if you can buy an adapter that will help but eventually some stuff has to be fabricated! You can do it, but be prepared to make many, many adaptations. Good Luck, I wish I could afford a Deuce but my job is to get this roadster finished. Just to stir the pot, take a look at the Bebops 3W coupe, I think their quality is average but I have found their phone support to be friendly and helpful.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

No problem Mike. Most of the threads on here get sidetracked.... Not being a real formal site like some who do the "don't post it in this section" crap, most threads take on a general discussion as it pertains to others and not just the original poster.

As to a deuce, I've seen a couple of the N&N cars, first rate glass. I've also done a couple deuces using bodies from Redneck, another good one... IMO still the best in glass work is Wescott's... But you do pay extra, but you get a lot of extras including IMO the best steel reinforcement package made...

As to a frame, I always did my own using American Stamping rails...Undoubtedly the best rails I've seen this side of Henry's own....

Another thing to look for in a frame builder is, as someone mentioned earlier, a builder who is willing to make little mods and tweaks in the frame to suit your particular needs, and not just a "one size fits all" frame....

The big thing no matter who you use as a supplier, do your research first and have a written plan on the components you plan on using... Also, check around some of the local clubs and see who they use, heck, maybe there's a shop near by that can build you a chassis exactly to your specs...don't write off the small shops, I've been one for the last 40 years... The big advantage is that you have someone who will work with you and be able to answer a lot of your questions and concerns....

Main thing is, just like any kind of project, Proper Preparation and Planning Prevents Poor Performance.... Plan you work, work your plan....