Thread: And more questions: Front suspension & clearance

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Faith, in my opinion the first thing you should do is remove the Panhard bar and sling it as far as you can. It is the most awful mechanical abortion that was ever bolted to a car. This Panhard guy should have been suspended in mid-air with a strong cord around his privates until he came up with an acceptable design to limit lateral movement of the axle. That's as nice as I can be about that.

Next, don't fall for the "shorty" shock crap. You need shocks that have enough travel so that they neither reach their limits in extension or compression. In my opinion, you should start with shocks that have at least 4 inches total travel. Then the shocks should be mounted to the car with 55% of that travel in compression and 45% of that travel in extension. Faith, I don't know who built your car, but when I build something like this, I begin with a component that will work for the intended purpose and then fabricate mounts to bolt it or weld it to the car. You don't install something on the car like the shock mounts you have and then just throw any old shock on there. That's what someone has done on your car. Let's say you do have a 4" travel shock. Compress it all the way in and then pull the plunger out 2.200". That will be the installed length eye-to-eye of the shock and will give you 2.200" in compression and 1.800" in extension. Whatever that eye-to-eye measurement is, is how you will want to build your shock mounts.

In an ideal world, to take full advantage of the shock, you would mount it thusly. Place a string under one of the tires and hold it in the approximate position of the shock on the other side of the car. Swing it up and down in an arc. This is the ideal mounting line for the shock to use all of its capability. Realistically, follow Dave Severson's advice about the 30 degree angle limit and you'll be ok.

Faith: All of these guys are pretty much saying the same thing: Your front end was set up to get it as low as possible. and some things were done that reduced the clearances to a very minimal amount, so when you hit a pot hole. or rough surface, your front end is exceeding the space it needs to travel

Here is what I see from the pictures:

1) Your spring is a reversed eye spring. However, the reversed eye drops it an inch or so more than a regular eye, plus the spring seems to have been dearched somewhat, compounding the problem.

2) You have very little travel between the bottom of your spring perch u-bolts (in the center of the spring) and the top of the axle. Plus, they have put in some steel shims to take up threads, and further decreased the space between the two.

3) Your shocks may or may not be too long, and until you raise the front to an acceptable level, you won't know for sure. You generally want 2/3 of the shock for compression and 1/3 for upward travel. I have set them up at 1/2 and 1/2 and that is ok too.

4) Buy a new spring (Speedway has these, among others) and possibly get a regular vs reversed eye. Get rid of that spacer shim and get spring perch u bolts with a shorter length.

5) Once you get the car sitting at a couple of inches higher, or at least an inch higher, you can start playing with the shocks. I got my shorter lower shock mounts from Pete and Jakes years ago, and I think they still carry them. Yes, yours are too long. Sell them on Ebay.

Once you are done with all of this, get a good front end alignment (not A Pep Boys special) and make sure your caster, camber ,etc is ok.

That is all you have going on, someone wanted a low car, and got it too low.

Don

Here, I pulled this up for you. Check out this website;

www.peteandjakes.com/parts/32/32_boltons.htm


You can buy just the lower mounts, I did. Here is a picture of the whole setup.

Don

First thing I'd try would be to move those spring spacers up between the spring and the X-member. A half an inch or so doesn't seem like much, but it can make a big difference. Next thing would be a main leaf with the eyes down, like the others say.

Looks like what you need is the SuperBell lower shock mount.

The one in the pic measures 1 3/8" from center of perch bolt bore to center of shock mount stud.

Be aware that these do not have a keyway on the perch bolt or internal protrusion on the lower shock mount proper.
I have seen them spun a few degrees, but drilling and tapping for a setscrew would take care of that problem.

The shock shown is a SoCal unit and measures 7 1/2" body length.
This is from the top of the shock body proper where the rod enters and the bottom of the shock body proper where it attaches to the lower ring and does not include the ring.

This pic shows the 32's Deuce factory stainless lower shock mount.
It measures 2 1/2" from center of perch bolt bore to center of shock mount stud.

The shock on this car measures the same as the one on the 31 in the above pic.

I would argue the point about a panhard bar on a cross-steer car.
They work very well and control shackle sway steering inputs caused by the frame swinging on the shackles when entering a turn and while in the turn.

My 32 steers very well on twisty mountain roads, tracks well on the straighaways and is a pleasure to drive.


Far as the front spring goes, place the two 'stacker blocks' on top of the spring - appropriately retained by the spring center bolt.
You may want to buy a new spring center bolt.
They're cheap and commonly available at real parts houses.

If you've not disassembled a leaf spring there are several precautions you want to take.
Let us know.

Getting the front end up a little bit will help with the crank pulley/tie rod conflict, but . . . you're still going to have conflict issues cuz the chassis still bottoms out in the same place.

To that end, it looks like you have a Hurst motor mount setup in the car and are probably running the 48 Ford style rubber biscuit mounts.

If - big word here - you have room to go up, you may be able be to raise the engine.
You may run into exhaust to frame problems, trans conflict with the body's trans tunnel and driveshaft angle problems as well as throttle rod interference with the body.

If you decide to go this route, measure how much travel you have before the front suspension bottoms out and raise the engine 1/4" - 1/2" above that figure.

You may be able to get away with a minimal engine raise and depending on how the rear axle is hung, you might be able to adjust the pinion angle without welding or other major work.

Even simpler would be to heat and bend the steering arms a reasonable amount so as to lower the tie rod thereby gaining additional clearance between crank pulley and tie rod.

I understand that some aftermarket steering arms are cast so you can't bend those, but if they are forged or original Ford forgings you can.

It appears you have aftermarket arms so you need to be careful here.

Speedway has steering arms with a fairly deep bend and that could be a good way to go.

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Here, I pulled this up for you. Check out this website;

www.peteandjakes.com/parts/32/32_boltons.htm


You can buy just the lower mounts, I did. Here is a picture of the whole setup.

Don

I AM NOT SURE THESE MOUNTS ARE THAT MUCH SHORTER THAN MINE... I'll call and ask them to measure them...

Originally Posted by DennyW

Like this Richard ?

Thanks Denny

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Faith, in my opinion the first thing you should do is remove the Panhard bar

me no have panhard bar... And want to add one! Funny you should mention though because i just ordered one so my roadster will quit changing lanes every time I hit a hole in the road i think what you are seeing on the photo is the cross steering bar or whatever you call it... I have a half rack steering system (a newer invention that came out about a year ago).

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Faith, in my opinion the first thing you should do is remove the Panhard bar and sling it as far as you can. It is the most awful mechanical abortion that was ever bolted to a car. This Panhard guy should have been suspended in mid-air with a strong cord around his privates until he came up with an acceptable design to limit lateral movement of the axle. That's as nice as I can be about that.

Mr. Techinspector, what's your problem? All this wrath, but no technical logic or explanation for your opinion! I'd like to know why you're so opposed to a Panhard bar! This kind of language doesn't belong here . . . and you're talking to a gal, too!

What is your preference . . . let the shackles swing? Dead perch? Watts linkage? Vertical slot with a roller? IFS?

You're entitled to your opinion, but why should anyone care about what you have to say?

[QUOTE=Hot Rod Roy]Mr. Techinspector, what's your problem? All this wrath, but no technical logic or explanation for your opinion! I'd like to know why you're so opposed to a Panhard bar! This kind of language doesn't belong here . . . and you're talking to a gal, too!

What is your preference . . . let the shackles swing? Dead perch? Watts linkage? Vertical slot with a roller? IFS?

You're entitled to your opinion, but why should anyone care about what you have to say?


Hot Rod Roy: I am not going to speak for Richard (Techinspector 1) He is certainly more than capable than doing that on his own. But I have to ask you your own question......."what's your problem?" For someone to come on here with only 9 posts, even if you did start them in April, and attack one of the nicest, most knowlegable members we have, with no provocation,that is out of line. I reread Richards post 3 times to find what set you off, and can't find one thing he said wrong. He was just giving his opinion, and his language did not contain one swear word. If you take offense at the word "privates" it is you with the problem, not he. I am always the first person to mention to someone on here that certain language is not acceptable, and Richard's was not offensive.

I suggest you learn to not come into something new with guns blasting in the future until you get the lay of the land. I also think you owe Richard an apology. He has always gone out of his way to help everyone possible, and has proven he knows his stuff from more than a bench racing perspective. He is also a very good friend to many of us on this forum, and I won't see him attacked in this manner without giving my two-cents. If you disagree with someone, there is a right and wrong way to do it. You chose the latter.

Oh, and I also agree with him on Panhard's. I have never used one, and find that if you set up your front suspension properly you don't need one. And, they are butt=ugly. Hope the word butt is ok?


Don

I don't like the look of a Panhard bar on an open-wheeled car either. A "dead perch" would do the same thing and look much better.
With conventional steering, it wouldn't matter which side the dead perch went on, but with cross steering it would probably be better on the driver's side.