I am building a 421 CID SBC with NOS.I currently have a freshly machined 2- bolt block.I have read that this block is preferred to a 4-bolt because of web material.Would anyone recommend I spluerge for splayed caps.
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I am building a 421 CID SBC with NOS.I currently have a freshly machined 2- bolt block.I have read that this block is preferred to a 4-bolt because of web material.Would anyone recommend I spluerge for splayed caps.
Oh,no here we go again. the old 400 debate.ANYONE,ANYONE? I say go for it.After all it is your money.Quote:
Originally posted by 75 TA
I am building a 421 CID SBC with NOS.I currently have a freshly machined 2- bolt block.I have read that this block is preferred to a 4-bolt because of web material.Would anyone recommend I spluerge for splayed caps.
IMO with the 400 the 2 bolt would be stronger because there are less holes in the metal...yes, with the 4 bolt there is more metal but there are less holes.
JMO, some will say that im wrong but thats ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I'm under the impression that the main webbing pulls out of the 4-bolt blocks and that it's less of a problem on the 2-bolt blocks, so I've been told.
If you're not gonna bolt a blower on it or rev it to the moon, I wouldn't think you'd need 4-bolt caps.
I think this was said by myself in about two other posts last month.Hey,I know sell the block and build a 383.On paper it looks a lot better.L.O.L.Quote:
Originally posted by Hopper111
IMO with the 400 the 2 bolt would be stronger because there are less holes in the metal...yes, with the 4 bolt there is more metal but there are less holes.
JMO, some will say that im wrong but thats ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
hey guys,it sounds like someone doesnt like 400's.I am pulling a 383 out of the car which this is to go into.Like most people say"there is no replacement for displacement".LOL
400'S are great if you like thin wall's ,blown head gaskets,and a very short rod, did I mention they crack very easily.L.O.L.Quote:
Originally posted by 75 TA
hey guys,it sounds like someone doesnt like 400's.I am pulling a 383 out of the car which this is to go into.Like most people say"there is no replacement for displacement".LOL
Can I ask why you think a 400 is more prone to blown headgaskets than any other engie?I know many drag racers that get as many passes on them as any other engine.Could it be these peole are blowing gaskets because of improper installation?Could you please share your reasoning for your opinion.
If you are worried about those 2-bolt main cap moving around on you just have them "pinned" any machine shop can do this....And when done is stronger than stock 4-bolts
Take a look at a bare 400 block look at the space between the cylinders and you will see it is much less than the space between the cylinders on say a 350 block. Then you put a couple of extra holes in the block for the (siamesesd cylinders) not to mention the extra holes in the head gaskets and you can clealy see why they are more prone to blowing out.Quote:
Originally posted by 75 TA
Can I ask why you think a 400 is more prone to blown headgaskets than any other engie?I know many drag racers that get as many passes on them as any other engine.Could it be these peole are blowing gaskets because of improper installation?Could you please share your reasoning for your opinion.
L.O.L L.O.L L.O.L build the 400 no replacement for displacement steve morris racing built my engine when i called there to see if they had a 4 bolt block he said that they are weaker oh YEAH i run IT ON THE STREET with no steam holes every1 has an opinion call the pros!!!???Quote:
Originally posted by erik erikson
I think this was said by myself in about two other posts last month.Hey,I know sell the block and build a 383.On paper it looks a lot better.L.O.L.
www.stevemorrisracingengines.com
231-788-5869
Yeah, everyone has an opinion and it was the opinion of the pro engineers at GM that the motor needed steam holes and I'm not about to try to second guess them.Quote:
Originally posted by 383 chev
L.O.L L.O.L L.O.L build the 400 no replacement for displacement steve morris racing built my engine when i called there to see if they had a 4 bolt block he said that they are weaker oh YEAH i run IT ON THE STREET with no steam holes every1 has an opinion call the pros!!!???
It's my humble opinion that a 400 will run just as long as a 350 if built properly and it'll make more power doin' it.
And it won't overheat if properly cooled.Quote:
Originally posted by techinspector1
Yeah, everyone has an opinion and it was the opinion of the pro engineers at GM that the motor needed steam holes and I'm not about to try to second guess them.
It's my humble opinion that a 400 will run just as long as a 350 if built properly and it'll make more power doin' it.
Steve Morris is a very good engine builder and a very decent man.Here are couple things to think about.The engine was only made from 72-80.It is the only Chevy engine to use extra steam holes.If this was such a great idea why did'nt G.M. use it on any other engine?Why was there never any performance 400's offered from the factory?Why does'nt Dart,World products,Brodix,Donovon or any other aftermarket company offer the extra steam holes?The reason is it makes the block weaker and more prone to cracks.Like I said I have a bunch of these sitting around the shop with cracks in them and one has a hole big enough between numbers 3,5 cylinders you can through a golf ball threw it.The other ones have cracks down the lifter valley on the drivers side.Two of them have cracks between the freeze plugs.I had one crack on the dyno and it was a .030 over bore.The block was even sonic tested before the build and was (rocked) to the bottom of the freeze plugs.I have only had one 350 block break over the years and it was doing 603 h.p. on methanol and it was .060 over.Just ask yourself why did G.M. use the extra steam holes?Do you think there might have been an overheating problem from the factory because the walls where to thin and the coolant could not pass between the cylinders and this is why they decided to drill the extra steam holes to try and cool it down more?Quote:
Originally posted by 383 chev
L.O.L L.O.L L.O.L build the 400 no replacement for displacement steve morris racing built my engine when i called there to see if they had a 4 bolt block he said that they are weaker oh YEAH i run IT ON THE STREET with no steam holes every1 has an opinion call the pros!!!???
The two bolt is fine and better then the four bolt. I am putting out over 500HP and tourqe with my two bolt 400. No problems.
Starting a SBC 400 two bolt with supports and trying for 1300HP.
UMMM on 400 block? L.O.L.You should have a guy riding shot-gun with a big bucket and a shovel to scoop up all the parts when you ventilate the stock block.Are you messing with us???I was born at night but not last night.Quote:
Originally posted by DADNOVA
The two bolt is fine and better then the four bolt. I am putting out over 500HP and tourqe with my two bolt 400. No problems.
Starting a SBC 400 two bolt with supports and trying for 1300HP.
erik why u so bogg to ppl when they give thier real life experience just cause u smoke every 400 block u build doesnt mean that every one else is a back yard machanic!
How many people think 1,300 h.p. out of a stock 400 is unrealistic?I think people might stretch the truth more than a little when it comes to the h.p. level.The reason the blocks crack is due to the h.p. numbers I am reaching.If you are not breaking the 400 blocks it must be in a street car or a very low h.p. race car.Quote:
Originally posted by 383 chev
erik why u so bogg to ppl when they give thier real life experience just cause u smoke every 400 block u build doesnt mean that every one else is a back yard machanic!
Slightly high, but not completely unrealistic.Quote:
How many people think 1,300 h.p. out of a stock 400 is unrealistic?I think people might stretch the truth more than a little when it comes to the h.p. level.The reason the blocks crack is due to the h.p. numbers I am reaching.If you are not breaking the 400 blocks it must be in a street car or a very low h.p. race car.
Sorry, but aside from my 383 lt1 we're doing a small block 400. We aren't shooting for 1300, but we are looking at a fairly high hp. We got the block for free, so if it goes south, we won't feel too bad about it. There are quite a number of people running 400 blocks out there. Perhaps you just don't know how to build them the way that these others do.
Personally I'm a bigger fan of the 350. I think it was the best block Chevy ever made. If our 400 goes south on the dyno, then I might agree with you, but the other 400's we've built worked perfectly pushing well over 650hp. I would agree that they are problematic. Mostly in the cooling. but you can build more hp into them.
I have a factory 2-bolt 509 10/20 (high nickel/high tin) that was crack tested, sonic tested, shot peened, stress relieved, deburred, and three center mains splayed and align honed. The block can be safely bored to 4.185 with over .195 wall thickness in the thinnest area. Not all blocks are this good but most are decent. You mostly have good 400 blocks and better 400 blocks.
I have this block stroked to 420cid in my 68 camaro, with a small 177 weiand blower making plenty HP and torque. Granted its only about 3mos old but I have no problems at all. I only used Fel-pro's hiper 400 gasket with the steel rings and modified steam holes. I have a aftermarket aluminum radiator and the twin fan set-up made by flex-a-lite. This engine will idle all day in traffic and never get to 175F. It has a 160 T-stat in it and both fans don't kick on till about 175 then it goes back to 160. Going down the road it stays about 160-170. I don't know what this motor is making HP wise but its up there, and as soon as I feel its dialed and broken-in good, I will chassis dyno it. If I was rich I'd loved to set it up on the dyno. $750/day vs. 3-pulls for $100. I've only ever heard of problems with 4-bolt mains and core-shift victims. If your checking out a block, always look at the lifter bores first. They should be close to centered on the bosses, that will tell you a lot about core shift, then look under the timing cover for 10 and 20 That mean 1%nickel 2% tin which makes a fine hard block. Try to avoid 4-bolt mains because they took material out the web area and it weakened them. Last of all have the cylinders sonic tested. If you come across a block all good except one or two cylinders, you can have it sleeved. It cost way less than a Dart or Motown block. Heating problems are easily overcame just by using Fel-pros hi-performance gaskets. Oh Yeah, my block is filled to the bottom of the freeze plugs with block filler. My water stays cool and my oil stays pretty hot which is a good thing believe it or not. I do run red line synthetic.
JUST ANOTHER OPINION!!!!!!!.........RAY
Perhaps,they are just weak blocks.Hey why don't they build them any more?I can't even find them in the G.M catalog.I wonder why that is?Could it be G.M. also thinks they are junk?I build them the same way I build my 383's.I am getting about 40 nights on my 383's before I even touch them. If you will notice I am cracking the blocks.Well over 650 h.p. maybe in a drag car for 6 seconds in the 1/8 or maybe a 10 second 1/4 mile pass but never in a circle track car lap after lap.You might get 10 -20 nights out of one if you are very lucky.Better say you hail Mary's if you are really making these h.p. numbers.Quote:
Originally posted by Tommycat
Slightly high, but not completely unrealistic.
Sorry, but aside from my 383 lt1 we're doing a small block 400. We aren't shooting for 1300, but we are looking at a fairly high hp. We got the block for free, so if it goes south, we won't feel too bad about it. There are quite a number of people running 400 blocks out there. Perhaps you just don't know how to build them the way that these others do.
Personally I'm a bigger fan of the 350. I think it was the best block Chevy ever made. If our 400 goes south on the dyno, then I might agree with you, but the other 400's we've built worked perfectly pushing well over 650hp. I would agree that they are problematic. Mostly in the cooling. but you can build more hp into them.
For a time the 400's were preferred by circle track racers. Outside of the track the stock 400 didn't make significantly more power than the 350 did for it to be a viable optional motor. When the rules for circle tracks were changed the 400's were not being bought in significant numbers to be a viable product for GM to sell. Look at the years it was produced. from 1970 to 1980. During that time many performance robbing emissions devices were added to cars which made the stock 200-265 horses(under rated) dwindle.
Just because the block wasn't produced for a long time does not mean that it was a bad block. 10 years is longer than other engines were produced for instance the 327 only lasted about 8 years the LT1 only lasted a little over 5 years. Neither of those are crappy engines.
I can still buy the LT1 from G.M.Many of the large journal 327's share the same block as the 350 and use the same casting numbers.Quote:
Originally posted by Tommycat
For a time the 400's were preferred by circle track racers. Outside of the track the stock 400 didn't make significantly more power than the 350 did for it to be a viable optional motor. When the rules for circle tracks were changed the 400's were not being bought in significant numbers to be a viable product for GM to sell. Look at the years it was produced. from 1970 to 1980. During that time many performance robbing emissions devices were added to cars which made the stock 200-265 horses(under rated) dwindle.
Just because the block wasn't produced for a long time does not mean that it was a bad block. 10 years is longer than other engines were produced for instance the 327 only lasted about 8 years the LT1 only lasted a little over 5 years. Neither of those are crappy engines.
Erik, I think you need to order you a one off TITANIUM 400 BLOCK You are making way too much power for any stock block.
When I was working for Hotard engines, we built a 406 making in excess of 900hp at the rear wheel. We did the works to the block such as studs and splayed caps and O-rings. This engine had the Big E huffer and mechanical injection system running in a vet mini funny car. He turned 8's all season. We broke plenty but never had a block problem. In fact that block is now in a rail car (but set-up a bit tamer) The 400 does have problems but they are not unfixable, or should they be throwed away. In fact if you got some I'll take em off your hands for you. I'll be your junk man. lol Ray
I am sorry I have never heard of a Big E huffer.Who makes this?Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
Erik, I think you need to order you a one off TITANIUM 400 BLOCK You are making way too much power for any stock block.
When I was working for Hotard engines, we built a 406 making in excess of 900hp at the rear wheel. We did the works to the block such as studs and splayed caps and O-rings. This engine had the Big E huffer and mechanical injection system running in a vet mini funny car. He turned 8's all season. We broke plenty but never had a block problem. In fact that block is now in a rail car (but set-up a bit tamer) The 400 does have problems but they are not unfixable, or should they be throwed away. In fact if you got some I'll take em off your hands for you. I'll be your junk man. lol Ray
ENDERLE MECHANICAL INJECTION AND BLOWER SETUP.
(BIG E HUFFER AND PUFFER)
Enderle did indeed produce mechanical fuel injection systems, but I've never heard of them producing blowers. Mooneyham, Littlefield, Dyer, Hampton, Kuhl and Blower Drive Service are all likely candidates but I didn't know Enderle was in the mix also.Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
ENDERLE MECHANICAL INJECTION AND BLOWER SETUP.
(BIG E HUFFER AND PUFFER)
I HAVE SEEN THE ENDERLE FUEL INJECTION SYSTEMS BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO FIND THEIR SUPERCHARGER'S ANYWHERE.WHY IS THAT?IS THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE THEM?I WENT BACK TO A CATALOG FROM ALMOST 20YRS.GUESS WHAT I DON'T SEE THEM IN THERE EITHER.MAYBE THIS CAR HAD A CUSTOM ONE OFF BLOWER MADE BY ENDERLE.Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
ENDERLE MECHANICAL INJECTION AND BLOWER SETUP.
(BIG E HUFFER AND PUFFER)
unsubscribed!! L.O.L:mad:
I am sorry about my last post.It was rather rude of me.If people want to tell stories remember I was born at night but not last night.
Tech, Enderle doesn't make the blower, that's usually Mooneyham, but rarely do you see the Enderle by it self. It's usually used along with a blower (although not always, I have seen run on home made tunnel ram set ups) When I was saying the Big E huffer, I am referring to the Enderle sitting along with a huffer by whoever.
UMMM,A HUFFER IS A BLOWER.Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
Tech, Enderle doesn't make the blower, that's usually Mooneyham, but rarely do you see the Enderle by it self. It's usually used along with a blower (although not always, I have seen run on home made tunnel ram set ups) When I was saying the Big E huffer, I am referring to the Enderle sitting along with a huffer by whoever.
The huffer is not made by Enderle Just the injection, But when the two are together I see no problem calling it a Big E huffer set-up, But for this forum from now on because of all Gotto know mores, I will clarify
THAT ENGINE HAD AN ENDERLE MECHANICAL INJECTION AND
A MOONEYHAM BLOWER.
SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION, DIDN'T MEAN TO MAKE ROD'S LET GO!!!!!!
I DON'T THINK THE REST OF US WHERE CONFUSED.LET US TRY AND GET ALL THE FACTS STRAIGHT WHEN WE ARE (BENCH RACING).Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
The huffer is not made by Enderle Just the injection, But when the two are together I see no problem calling it a Big E huffer set-up, But for this forum from now on because of all Gotto know mores, I will clarify
THAT ENGINE HAD AN ENDERLE MECHANICAL INJECTION AND
A MOONEYHAM BLOWER.
SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION, DIDN'T MEAN TO MAKE ROD'S LET GO!!!!!!
WOULD I CATCH THIS MUCH HEAT IF I CAME IN HERE AND SAID I HAVE A GOAT WITH A TRIPLE DEUCE???:whacked:
no harm, no foul, let's just have fun :)Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
The huffer is not made by Enderle Just the injection, But when the two are together I see no problem calling it a Big E huffer set-up, But for this forum from now on because of all Gotto know mores, I will clarify
THAT ENGINE HAD AN ENDERLE MECHANICAL INJECTION AND
A MOONEYHAM BLOWER.
SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION, DIDN'T MEAN TO MAKE ROD'S LET GO!!!!!!
I WOULD STILL WANT TO KNOW WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR PONTIAC WITH THREE CARBURETOR'S ON A SMALL BLOCK CHEVY FORUM.:whacked:Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_fever68
WOULD I CATCH THIS MUCH HEAT IF I CAME IN HERE AND SAID I HAVE A GOAT WITH A TRIPLE DEUCE???:whacked:
this is getting good. I raced with a 400 in my street stock 4 years with only one overheating,which turned out to be a bad radiator cap. I've also raced with a 358 with angle milled bowtie heads and burned out the block surface between 4 and 6 cylinders. I still like the 350 block even though they've given me more problems. I do drill out the steam holes when I use a 400 block,but my reason for using them is more torque at lower rpms.
Why not try a 383? Same 3.75 stroke as the 400.Quote:
Originally posted by halftanked
this is getting good. I raced with a 400 in my street stock 4 years with only one overheating,which turned out to be a bad radiator cap. I've also raced with a 358 with angle milled bowtie heads and burned out the block surface between 4 and 6 cylinders. I still like the 350 block even though they've given me more problems. I do drill out the steam holes when I use a 400 block,but my reason for using them is more torque at lower rpms.