Harmonic balancer on 454 has 4 timing marks.....

First I guess I should mention my motor knowledge is 5 of 10....at best.

Recently I was forced to replaced a blown 454 in my boat. Due to limited funds I bought a complete, but used marine 454 off a local reputable marine dealer.

The motor that came out was a carburated 1993 stock 454(think Mark IV). Regardless the dealer matched with similar carburated 454.

The new motor is more extreme though: Mid level cam. High rise intake manifold. Merlin heads and a built bottom end. I also upgraded the 650 Holley, with a rebuilt 850 marine Holley.

The new motor starts and runs, but it's a chore.

In order to start. I have to mat the throttle(or pump 20 times). Once running the motor does rev. Of course the boat is out of the water and free of load. I can get to rough idle around 1200rpm(after warming up).

I've adjusted carb every which way. Not much difference. I've checked fuel pressure, sits about 5-1/2 psi. Vacuum at base plate of carb is low(fairly steady 10 inches at 1200 idle).

So to my big problem. Cant really check the timing. The harmonic balancer has 4 marks. Not sure which one is TDC. That's where I could use some help(of course any other suggestions would be great).

As for the four timing marks. One long line(the one the installer set to TDC). An then 3 shorter lines about 5 degrees apart(middle line is longer than two outside lines). These three lines sit maybe thirty degrees before the long line. Making them above TDC, since the long line is TDC.

I verified the long line to be TDC by lining up with the timing tab and pulling the dist. The button was on #1 with the long line on TDC. I also made sure the motor wasnt 180 out by using the finger test.

I assume the installer should have set TDC to the middle of the three marks. I just don't wanna chance changing without some knowledge. I searched all over the internet and couldnt find anything in regards to more than one timing mark.

Thanks for ANY advice! Chris

Here's a pic I made of the timing marks and balancer....

Attachment 55383

first you need to find tdc see what mark is O why not ask the guy that built the engine ? i always check TDC and set it when head is off . if that is a stock GM damper should only be one line if a sfi damper many are fully degree

Use this tutorial to find TDC with the heads on....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center
I suspect the carb will be unwilling to accept any adjustment until you get some ignition advance dialed in. Fuel pressure is perfect, leave it alone.

Use a couple of small tie wraps to secure the mechanical advance weights to the shaft so that they cannot swing out and advance the timing and put 34-38 degrees of advance in at the crank. Start at 34 and dial in another 2 degrees after trial runs, up to 38. Connect vacuum advance line to the ported vacuum port of the carb, not manifold vacuum and limit ported vacuum to 12 degrees or less. Crane makes an adjustable vacuum can that may work for you. If the motor kicks back against the starter when cranking, cut the feed line to the coil and insert a momentary push button normally closed switch that you can hold in with one thumb while your other hand cranks the motor with the key. Once the motor is spinning, release the momentary button and the motor will be running. No muss, no fuss. As far as not firing right away when cranking, install a manual choke on the carb and pull it to full choke before cranking. I used to also install a microswitch on the choke shaft assembly that would close a circuit and illuminate a small amber light on the dash, letting me know that the choke was engaged in case I forgot it and began driving with the choke on after the motor was warm. A fellow could also incorporate a turn signal blinker switch if he wanted to make it easy to see and get his attention. Sling that automatic choke arrangement over the fence.

The motor needs to breathe, so install a minimum 14" x 4" air filter assembly. In my opinion, all the hype about those oil-impregnated filters is a bunch of hogwash, but if you buy into it, go for it. Otherwise, just use one 4" conventional filter element or stack two 2" ones on top of each other.

What I've outlined here is all low-buck stuff that you can try and then reverse if you don't like the outcome. The one thing you MUST do though, is find TDC.

Once you have TDC nailed down a good dial back digital timing light will make your life a whole lot easier. Here's the one I picked up, and it has worked fine for me - Equus Products 3568 Digital Timing Light: Tools : Walmart.com This page is from WallyWorld, but I picked mine up from one of the local automotive box stores for about the same price.

boat engine do not use vacuum av as they are most always under a hard load. there should be NO vac pick ups at base carb if so it its not a marine carb . the carb vent tubes need to be J bent to dump fuel in the carb if floats hang or fuel pump fails . this is a must less you feel very lucky .coast guard find any car carb . air filter . fuel pump. alt . dist .. they will have your nuts. sure fast way to get fired at the boat yard i work at some hot shot lasted one day. cost guard would be the least of it. if the bilge gets fuel in it from using car parts on it you can blow the boat up .BOATS are not CARS :) NO paper filters EVER on any boat they can burn .FLAME ARRESTER ONLY . you can pass way more air threw one then any paper and you can not burn one .you guys really need to watch what you post you could very well help him burn his boat to the water line ..:(

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Originally Posted by rspears

Once you have TDC nailed down a good dial back digital timing light will make your life a whole lot easier. Here's the one I picked up, and it has worked fine for me - Equus Products 3568 Digital Timing Light: Tools : Walmart.com This page is from WallyWorld, but I picked mine up from one of the local automotive box stores for about the same price.

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you need to watch this as the old mecruiser boxs Thunder bolts your not to use a timing light likes this on them

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

you need to watch this as the old mecruiser boxs Thunder bolts your not to use a timing light likes this on them

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Help me understand, Pat. The timing light gets battery power, and then senses spark with an induction clip around #1 plug wire - no other connections. How does the box affect this type of light, and what do you use instead?

this was over 20 years ago when i work at one of the largest fresh water marinas around Brennan.s over a mile of yard with docks . it was not hard to work on five boats a day for just tune ups. this is what i was told ... but why ? ask mecruiser they told use NOT to use them. that was back 20years ago and merc was sick of buying back engines with holes in the pistons ..THEY TOLD US NO MORE PERIOD .they said the dealer would cover it . they wanted fuel checked for Octane and timing set were they wanted it . very well could of been them not wanting some super turner with a wiz bang new at that time. timing lite screwing around ?? they said not to use it on the thunder bolt box and thats was a good enough for me..seen some smart a$$ use a snap on one.i told him not to use it on the engine . boat came back in a week with holes in the pistons ?? was it the light ? .the thunder bolt . had a built in curve . the light would change the curve by the way the timing lite work ? i just know what they told us

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

NO paper filters EVER on any boat they can burn .FLAME ARRESTER ONLY . you can pass way more air threw one then any paper and you can not burn one .you guys really need to watch what you post you could very well help him burn his boat to the water line ..:(

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Thanks Pat, edited post.

Wow a lot to take in. Thanks guys.

As for the carb. Both the 650 and 850 are marine Holley 4011 series. They both have the J tube's, as well as vacuum hookup's at the base and above t-plates(ones plugged). Both are also electric choke. Have a flame arrestor(feel like it's choking motor, it's small).

After the motor rebuild, figured stock carb was to small. I had Holley run the numbers. They verified the above mentioned. I then found my 850 on Craigslist. Had Holley run the number for it. It was an 850, but used the same rebuild kit as the 650. Again they verified the above mentioned. Really the two carbs appear identical. I was upset, I probably could have just upgraded jets.

The original dist didnt have a vacuum advance. The motor installer upgraded the dist. The new one does have advance, but just capped it off. That would be the only thing that's likely not marine.

I didn't wanna get into the motor to much. I was just hoping it would be an easy switch over. Seems that's not gonna be the case. Its hard to check the TDC, because of a water impeller mounted to the crank pulley. I have to key bump. I cant move crank by hand. Plus I've been working on it by myself. It's gonna cost me to get the installer back. He's thinks it was good to go. Obviously not the case.

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

this was over 20 years ago when i work at one of the largest fresh water marinas around Brennan.s over a mile of yard with docks . it was not hard to work on five boats a day for just tune ups. this is what i was told ... but why ? ask mecruiser they told use NOT to use them. that was back 20years ago and merc was sick of buying back engines with holes in the pistons ..THEY TOLD US NO MORE PERIOD .they said the dealer would cover it . they wanted fuel checked for Octane and timing set were they wanted it . very well could of been them not wanting some super turner with a wiz bang new at that time. timing lite screwing around ?? they said not to use it on the thunder bolt box and thats was a good enough for me..seen some smart a$$ use a snap on one.i told him not to use it on the engine . boat came back in a week with holes in the pistons ?? was it the light ? .the thunder bolt . had a built in curve . the light would change the curve by the way the timing lite work ? i just know what they told us

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Sounds to me like the factory had an aggressive timing curve in the box, and if someone "reset" the base timing it threw in too much advance and things went south. There's simply no way that an inductive lead could "change" anything electronic. Had to be the guy "checking" making changes he did not understand in the earlier days of electronics, and burning up engines. That's how it sounds to me, anyway, but I'm not in any way a boat guy.

Found several pics I took of the motor before the install. I was able to zoom in and cut the pictures to show the balancer marks. After finding the pics, it's obvious the "other three lines" arent factory to the balancer. From my prospective with the motor installed in the boat. The lines looked straight and factory. The attached pic, shows a different story(pic 1).

Since I know the installer set TDC to the long line and the motor seems to not be 180 out, I guess I need to put a timing light on it(or set to ear, considering Pat's comments).

I also realize I need to find a way to make sure TDC is TDC. I'll figure something out.

Also looking at internet pics of other factory balancers(which this one appears to be). I noticed the long timing mark appears to match most other pictures found. The mark is in the same spot, relative to the four holes in the side of balancer(pic 2). So likely timing marks not slipping, due to bad balancer.

So seems the motor is to far out of time or the 850 is just to big.

Though on initial startup the cam was big enough to draw water back into the motor. I had to change exhaust to "thur hall". The cam overlap sucked water back into motor, because factory exhaust was routed into the water, though outdrive. New exhaust exits rear of boat into air and corrected that problem. So with such a cam and considering boats typically run higher RPM's. The carb such be right on.

Guess maybe a leak at the base of carb should be considered also.

Know more tomorrow evening, as I will be messing with it. Thanks again guys. I know this isnt really a boat forum. I appreciate the advise anyways!

the long mark is the one you set your timing. other marks are not stock as whey look like they were put in with a ax. if a mark 5 engine with a tin front cover they had a two timing tabs on the cover one like all bbc at around 3:00 and one down around 5:00 look s like that damper had them marks re marked for total curve 32 the 35 the 36 ???.measure from the gm O tdc long mark and i can tell you if them hash marks are 35 or 26 or ??? them holes are nothing but holes used when mass was balanced and is very common to see a row of holes . but may not be in the same place is there more of balancing deal

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Originally Posted by rspears

Sounds to me like the factory had an aggressive timing curve in the box, and if someone "reset" the base timing it threw in too much advance and things went south. There's simply no way that an inductive lead could "change" anything electronic. Had to be the guy "checking" making changes he did not understand in the earlier days of electronics, and burning up engines. That's how it sounds to me, anyway, but I'm not in any way a boat guy.

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well i was a boat guy but that was 20 +years ago only job i hated and loved equally.no i did not know how the box worked .i have abit better idea now? not really.way to many things to think of were i used the msd.s marine dist like the auto dist it.s curve can be tuned in has it.s springs and a limit bushing .the thunder bolt was potted no way to move the curve . yes a pick up should not hurt the box and yes i used a induc pickup timing lite every day back then .but thats was not the deal it was the way the timing lite work out the curve out on the timing lite with the dial in lite . like said box.s was some what new and so were the timing lites but mecruiser told use not to use that timing lite on them boxs so as a mecruiser mechanic i was happy to play along,as there was many things get drilled in your head most of the time you walked the mecruiser line . but that was not always the case with me... as for the thunder bolt box. dist/box. i had one in a 396 and my 454 worked very good on the street set the base timing like the many boats and used it . what total timing was? boxs did go by engine hp and rate of curve by part number. traded the two set ups .for two gm HEI built buy accel .to a guy with a offshore cat race boat

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Originally Posted by repoman3809

Found several pics I took of the motor before the install. I was able to zoom in and cut the pictures to show the balancer marks. After finding the pics, it's obvious the "other three lines" arent factory to the balancer. From my prospective with the motor installed in the boat. The lines looked straight and factory. The attached pic, shows a different story(pic 1).

Since I know the installer set TDC to the long line and the motor seems to not be 180 out, I guess I need to put a timing light on it(or set to ear, considering Pat's comments).

I also realize I need to find a way to make sure TDC is TDC. I'll figure something out.

Also looking at internet pics of other factory balancers(which this one appears to be). I noticed the long timing mark appears to match most other pictures found. The mark is in the same spot, relative to the four holes in the side of balancer(pic 2). So likely timing marks not slipping, due to bad balancer.

So seems the motor is to far out of time or the 850 is just to big.

Though on initial startup the cam was big enough to draw water back into the motor. I had to change exhaust to "thur hall". The cam overlap sucked water back into motor, because factory exhaust was routed into the water, though outdrive. New exhaust exits rear of boat into air and corrected that problem. So with such a cam and considering boats typically run higher RPM's. The carb such be right on.

Guess maybe a leak at the base of carb should be considered also.

Know more tomorrow evening, as I will be messing with it. Thanks again guys. I know this isnt really a boat forum. I appreciate the advise anyways!

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yep i know all about the EX running threw the prop . many time s the flap valves would come apart .many times you would see parts of them when you did a stren drive R&R look like the heel of a shoe... we did not see it :)....more to the point did not want that job on some boats and was a winter job. it was not fun .but did not rate as hi on the list as a gimbal housing that bolt threw the transom :( i did drink abit back then. some of the work really did suck . that job was not much fun

Well here's the update, and not good. Fiddled with the motor all day. Made sure was TDC on compression stroke, made sure button was on one. Made sure all wires followed the proper firing order. It was all good. Also new gaskets for carb(yes gasket(s), it's got an adapter plate).

Motor still only started by matting the throttle(or pumping 20 times). I advanced the timing by ear, till motor sounded best. At this point motor started a lot easier. Typically one or two pumps on throttle(sometimes none). While it started easier and with less fuel, it definitely was fighting itself. The motor would crank slower and almost stop, right before it started(i assume combustion was premature pushing piston back down). But it was starting.

I had to put a timing light on at this point. Turns out I was way off timing tab and I'd guess roughly 32-34 degrees BTDC at idle. Tried moving back to end of timing tab(16 degrees). Motor idle would drop off and motor would stall or be on verge of. The start up was back to matting throttle or pumping twenty times, at 16 degrees BTDC.

Checked fuel pressure again(just after fuel pump). Pressure still 5-1/2 psi. Advanced timing and restarted, checked vacuum. Read about 13 inches and was pretty steady(maybe inch either way periodically). This reading was with the ridiculous base timing(32-34BTDC). Obviously as I retarded advance RPM and vacuum dropped. Best I could get was crappy rough idle around 900, with 8 inches of vacuum. Vacuum reading was consistent with lumpy idle(if idle when up, so did vacuum. if idle when down so did vacuum).

Finally smartened up and got out the compression tester. Tested 2-4-6: roughly 110psi to 120psi(low but enough. But for big cam too low, right?). Regardless, #8 was around 65psi(checked it 3 times, along with gauge/S.P. hole connection). NOT GOOD!

At this point I was tired, sweaty and ticked. I packed up and went home. Leaving the rest of the cylinders untested and didn't bother shooting a little oil down #8.

Worst part I've had the motor for some time. I doubt the shop I bought it from will give me a break(gonna try though). Should have done a test right there in the shop.

Lesson learned, regardless of outcome! To anyone as dumb as me(hope none). Do a compression test before you buy. It doesn't matter who your buying from either(I bought from reputable marine shop). Put a starter on it, jumper cables, jumper wire and good battery. Or just test it by hand. Just find a way to do it. Don't be a dummy like me!

Again, I appreciate the help!

I'll keep ya posted when I get around to testing the rest(as well as leakdown). I may need some time though. Right now I feel like filling each cylinder with small screws and firing her up.

I went back and re-read your initial post on this thread. As I understand, you bought a used, complete 454 from a 'reputable marine dealer'. If he is indeed reputable, we would have to assume that he knew some history of that engine, and that he had heard it run, if not even run it in the PO's boat before it was pulled. Bottom line, it would be reasonable to assume that it ran fine when he sold it to you.

You then decided to "upgrade" to a larger, but rebuilt 850cfm carb to replace the 650 that it had. Since then you've had problems with hard starts and rough idle. Instead of going into the guts of that engine isn't it logical that your problems lie with that replacement carb? Was it a factory rebuilt unit, essentially new in the box or did you get it from someone who "rebuilt" it, or maybe you rebuilt it yourself? Regardless, I think that it's a pretty good bet that you've got a carburetor problem, but now you're chasing changes on multiple fronts so it's going to be harder to sort out all of the gremlins. If it were mine I think I would reset the timing as close to where it was when you started (hopefully you put a reference mark on it before moving the distributor?), drop the 650 carb back in place, be sure you have good, clean gas (no fuel filter plugged, no water, not stale) and see what it does that way. You may just have one weak cylinder, and it may run OK, but not optimally if you run the gremlins out of there.

Good luck with it. Boats have their own set of issues that a lot of us have not dealt with.

maybe its time you check the cam timing --------------
draws water back thru exhaust-------

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Originally Posted by rspears

I went back and re-read your initial post on this thread. As I understand, you bought a used, complete 454 from a 'reputable marine dealer'. If he is indeed reputable, we would have to assume that he knew some history of that engine, and that he had heard it run, if not even run it in the PO's boat before it was pulled. Bottom line, it would be reasonable to assume that it ran fine when he sold it to you.

You then decided to "upgrade" to a larger, but rebuilt 850cfm carb to replace the 650 that it had. Since then you've had problems with hard starts and rough idle. Instead of going into the guts of that engine isn't it logical that your problems lie with that replacement carb? Was it a factory rebuilt unit, essentially new in the box or did you get it from someone who "rebuilt" it, or maybe you rebuilt it yourself? Regardless, I think that it's a pretty good bet that you've got a carburetor problem, but now you're chasing changes on multiple fronts so it's going to be harder to sort out all of the gremlins. If it were mine I think I would reset the timing as close to where it was when you started (hopefully you put a reference mark on it before moving the distributor?), drop the 650 carb back in place, be sure you have good, clean gas (no fuel filter plugged, no water, not stale) and see what it does that way. You may just have one weak cylinder, and it may run OK, but not optimally if you run the gremlins out of there.

Good luck with it. Boats have their own set of issues that a lot of us have not dealt with.

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put new water fuel separator on it . go to the tank and put a new check valve in line .was called a no syphon valve .they can get junk in them or rot out .make sure oil is not fuel loaded . put older carb on it or find one running right . reset timing . try it something is not right here you say the guy screw you on the engine but he is a.... reputable dealer .... there must be more to the story like they want to much money to put engine in .you had some else put it in ?warranty void? if that not it why not ask them what they sold you ? cam can not be real nasty it idle as the drive will not shift right less you have a two drive on it ? the bravo drive may take a hi idle speed but they could in time be hard on the shift spool.dog drive . two drive has a trans and seem to take it

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Quote Originally Posted by rspears View Post
I went back and re-read your initial post on this thread. As I understand, you bought a used, complete 454 from a 'reputable marine dealer'. If he is indeed reputable, we would have to assume that he knew some history of that engine, and that he had heard it run, if not even run it in the PO's boat before it was pulled. Bottom line, it would be reasonable to assume that it ran fine when he sold it to you.

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Dealer installed motor and serviced before PO decided to upgrade to 502. As I said I, assumed the same.

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Quote Originally Posted by rspears View Post
You then decided to "upgrade" to a larger, but rebuilt 850cfm carb to replace the 650 that it had. Since then you've had problems with hard starts and rough idle.

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It had these problems from the get-go. The dealer advised me to move up to the 850. He says they run nothing less on their marine 454's. I assumed the new carb would fix the hard starting problem. Seems logical considering I have good FP and still have to mat the throttle to start.

I think your on point in regards to the gremlins. I'm still thinking though, with that much difference in cylinder compression. A leakdown test almost has to be first in line. Right?

even with one dead hole it should start and run---check your cranking manifold vacume---

also maybe try using some starting fluid--that will help prove it is or isn't a cranking fuel supply problem

you said that the engine was installed by the dealer then the original owner decided to upgrade to 502---does that mean that this engine was then removed from the boat and you purchased it and installed it in yours???????if this is so, I would bet that 99% of the people on here would then agree that something was seriously wrong with the rebuild--------I'm betting cam out of time to crank and/or wiped out lobes/lifters( would help explain the poor compression on #8?)

That's correct Jerry. Engine installed in first owners boat. Then removed in favor of the 502. I purchased and then installed. The boat was in dry dock at the time. I don't have a trailer. The dealer does not offer mobile service, so I couldn't have him install. I removed original engine, I marked everything, even took pictures. The engine bay on the boat is huge, so installing wasn't a problem. I had a gentleman who works for a local mechanic help with the install and setup.

BTW Original 454 had spun bearings, block was to far out to line bore. Machine said it could technically be done(think he said "shimmed or welded"), but not good idea for boat.

I did have several other options form the dealer. He had two more 454's that were stock. The purchased engine was the cheapest. The stock motors had lower hours and well are probably in higher demand(esp with fuel consumption considerations. my tank holds 105 gallons). Also it's likely the previous owner didnt baby the engine. Especially if he wanted more.

The motor was fresh out of the other boat. It was shrink wrapped on a skid. It was basically ready, just needed carb, dist. and installed. I did replace water pump.

I did also run the cranking vacuum test the other day. I forgot to mention it. It not something I've ever had to do before, but seemed simple. Unplug dist. make sure throttle plate closed. "T" into base of carb. I got nothing on the test.

Also I did use starting fluid. But with the ventilation problems in boat I decided not to use again(the smell lingered for quite some time, even with the blower on). I don't recall the boat starting with it.

I'm hoping it is cam/crank out of time. I really need to test the rest of the cylinders. I did 2-4-6 and when I seen 8's numbers. I called it quits for the day. It was a rough, long day and I was fed up.

Again, once started and major advance added. Motor did well. Response was good revved nice, sounded good. I didnt rev high, maybe 2500. Timing didnt advance much either at that RPM.

Pat
The oil is likely got some fuel in it. When I did the compression test two of the four new plugs had fuel on em. Oddly other two didnt. My only guess was the Weiland high rise intake wasnt spreading fuel evenly. Maybe someone else has another reason, I'm not aware of.

Water fuel separator is new. Guess I probably need to get check valve.
Outdrive is Volvo duo prop.

I had no warranty. The price range I was in, really isnt one where you can get warranty's. It was this dealer or take a crack at one on Craigslist. Figured my odds where better with this dealer. Maybe I should have just held off, saved and had one built. Hindsight is always 20/20.

my last year at the boat yard. i made new boats ready for customers and rigging them . they had me in one shop. i had my own customers that we would go to the girls and write up a work order so i could fix there boat if any thing did pop up . to have a carb out of adjustment .along with bent excell pump arms.was nothing new . if the guys building the boats were not happy they could make life hard .one trick they liked to do was drill very small holes in the boat hulls. a hair above the water line or they drilled a small hole under the stinger . a 38 foot cabin cruiser come to mind . they would also play with the wiring .boats......fun ..fun ..fun

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Originally Posted by repoman3809

That's correct Jerry. Engine installed in first owners boat. Then removed in favor of the 502. I purchased and then installed. The boat was in dry dock at the time. I don't have a trailer. The dealer does not offer mobile service, so I couldn't have him install. I removed original engine, I marked everything, even took pictures. The engine bay on the boat is huge, so installing wasn't a problem. BTW Original 454 had spun bearings, block was to far out to line bore. Machine said it could technically be done(think he said "shimmed or welded"), but not good idea for boat.

I did have several other options form the dealer. He had two more 454's that were stock. The purchased engine was the cheapest. The stock motors had lower hours and well are probably in higher demand. Also it's likely the previous owner beat the engine. Especially if he wanted more.

The motor was fresh out of the other boat. It was shrink wrapped on a skid. It was basically ready, just needed carb, dist. and installed. I did replace water pump.

I did also run the cranking vacuum test the other day. I forgot to mention it. It not something I've ever had to do before, but seemed simple. Unplug dist. make sure throttle plate closed. "T" into base of carb. I got nothing on the test.

Also I did use starting fluid. But with the ventilation problems in boat I decided not to use again(the smell lingered for quite some time, even with the blower on). I don't recall the boat starting with it.

I'm hoping it is cam/crank out of time. I really need to test the rest of the cylinders. I did 2-4-6 and when I seen 8's numbers. I called it quits for the day. It was a rough, long day and I was fed up.

Again, once started and major advance added. Motor did well. Response was good revved nice, sounded good. I didnt rev high, maybe 2500. Timing didnt advance much either at that RPM.

Pat
The oil is likely got some fuel in it. When I did the compression test two of the four new plugs had fuel on em. Oddly other two didnt. My only guess was the Weiland high rise wasnt spreading fuel evenly. Maybe someone else has another reason, I'm not aware of.

Water fuel separator is new. Guess I probably need to get check valve.
Outdrive is Volvo duo prop.

I had no warranty. The price range I was in, really isnt one where you can get warranty's. It was this dealer or take a crack at one on Craigslist. Figured my odds where better with this dealer. Maybe I should have just held off, saved and had one built. Hindsight is always 20/20.

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well i do not know that you paid . i do not want to know.... But there long blocks on E bay . that are not bad on price . for what it.s worth i have a 330 hp 454 mark 6 long block fresh and a 496 mark 6 454 roller enigne both marine engine. i will stand behind them for work and parts.i build and machined engines every day :)

Can you email me a price.... cincinnatirepo@zoho.com. Honestly, I'm getting way ahead of myself. But regardless it doesnt hurt to know my options.

I'll likely have the heads checked and magnafluxed. I'd really like to keep those. But for the right price and a lot of issues with the current block, a short block would likely be in order.

BTW Pat. I do a lot of work for a repo company out of Bay City...Liberty Recovery. Know a lot of folks up your way.

I just re-read your post and realized there both long. If you happen across a short block, please let me know. If you feel like it shoot me the prices anyhow.

Thanks.

they can come as short block as well the 330 is all machined just needs to be washed then short blocked . this engine has been bored 030 over with deck plates tru deck with BhJ . balanced with hines machine i have all parts fresh 10/10 crank. rebuild rods with ARP bolts .speedpro new pistons hasting molyrings .496 block will come with new pistons .scat crank scat 7/16 rods and have about 7 454 core block ready to machine all parts new. if you know alot of folks there a good chance one of them may know me. i would have to put a pencil to it .right now i finishing one engine and starting on a 489 short block. i was going to build the 330 in a week or two but at could be short block and ready for pick up in less then a week it been on the back burner but can come to the front any time if needed . or drop off what you have and i will go threw it ?

if it wasn't for Ohio, you two could get this done today------------

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if it wasn't for Ohio, you two could get this done today------------

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LOL....aint that the truth!

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Originally Posted by repoman3809

LOL....aint that the truth!

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i do not get it ? did they wall us in...... here in mi ? roads still working ?

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i do not get it ? did they wall us in...... here in mi ? roads still working ?

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Well, it was more about "today" comment. Little hard to pull a motor, then make the 6 hour drive though Ohio to MI, all in the same day.

you going to pull it? hey that liberty recovery thats repo deal only ..is that racer als brother

I plan on completing the compression test, running a leakdown and then pulling the timing cover. Just to know the exact issue(s). I did talk to the dealer. Not much help. He offered his rebuild services. Supposed to get back to me on exact cam size.

I will be pulling if necessary. If that's the case, I'll likely be doing some business with you Pat. It's gonna take some time though. The boat, as it sits in dry dock, is roughly 8ft high. I used a bobcat for the last motor replace, but the boat was on a rented trailer. I barely had enough height then. This time it sits higher(on blocks) and I may need something else to get the motor out.

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Originally Posted by repoman3809

I plan on completing the compression test, running a leakdown and then pulling the timing cover. Just to know the exact issue(s). I did talk to the dealer. Not much help. He offered his rebuild services. Supposed to get back to me on exact cam size.

I will be pulling if necessary. If that's the case, I'll likely be doing some business with you Pat. It's gonna take some time though. The boat, as it sits in dry dock, is roughly 8ft high. I used a bobcat for the last motor replace, but the boat was on a rented trailer. I barely had enough height then. This time it sits higher(on blocks) and I may need something else to get the motor out.

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man at the boat yard i work at we did some.. heavy ...dock work. i did the heads on a house boat . fun fun all i could thing about was droping the head in the water . did some velvet drives and ex logs them heavy iron pigs . right after i left the boat yard to work at a body shop. they lost a bbc engine on a pick. drop it on one of the yard guy foot and he lost his toe :(

I had a little spare time this evening and finished the compression test. Again, I had charged batteries, TP opened, disconnected fuel and ign and no plugs in. Here's the readings:

1=67psi l 2=120psi
3=65psi l 4=122psi
5=80psi l 6=113psi
7=31psi l 8=72psi

I didnt bother adding any oil. I did start pulling apart the front on motor(pulleys, belts, water pump). I got down the harmonic balancer(didnt have a balancer pulley on hand). Will check the timing chain as soon as I get one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by repoman3809

I had a little spare time this evening and finished the compression test. Again, I had charged batteries, TP opened, disconnected fuel and ign and no plugs in. Here's the readings:

1=67psi l 2=120psi
3=65psi l 4=122psi
5=80psi l 6=113psi
7=31psi l 8=72psi

I didnt bother adding any oil. I did start pulling apart the front on motor(pulleys, belts, water pump). I got down the harmonic balancer(didnt have a balancer pulley on hand). Will check the timing chain as soon as I get one.

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yep you may have bent valves . bbc can not stand much lift and duration with some pistons.yep oils not going to help them holes .i would pull it or pull the heads and timing cover off or just pull the engine out . but with heads off be less weight to play with it your call .l would bit the bullet and pull it

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yep you may have bent valves . bbc can not stand much lift and duration with some pistons.yep oils not going to help them holes .i would pull it or pull the heads and timing cover off or just pull the engine out . but with heads off be less weight to play with it your call .l would bit the bullet and pull it

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Yeah my thought too. I'm going to do a leakdown anyways. Then I'll pull the balancer and timing cover. Sure that will tell all I need to know. Amazing thing(or at least to me) is that once I got it started, it actually ran well. No load on the motor, but it revved good and idled decent around 1200.

I wish I would have done the compression test the first day I bought it. I'm not even blaming the dealer. I screwed up! But again, lesson learned.

Hopefully I can get out of this with a smile.

Crazy I happened to test the left side first. 2-4-6 were acceptable, 8 made me get ticked and quit the test.

After returning a few days later and seeing 1-3-5-7. I wasnt as mad, I already came to grips with the worst.

If I would have completed the whole test the first day. I might have really put the screws in the cylinders and fired her up. Us repo guys tend to have a short fuse. LOL

Update....with pic.

I pulled balancer and timing chain cover. Before doing so I made sure I was set TDC. The crank and button were both right.

After the pic, I put the balancer and cover back on. The balancer mark was still on 0.

Attachment 55547