Muncie 4 speed is hard to shift

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01-11-2010, 04:43 AM
manky

Muncie 4 speed is hard to shift

Here is a question for the stick shift fans out there. Why is my Muncie 4 speed overly stiff to shift ? I think that the 4 to 3 shift is the worst but it's quite stiff in all forward gears (not reverse) I purchased it as a used unit it came with an old shifter that is very sloppy. I did take the side cover off to check for broken bits before fitting to the car. I couldn't get a new gasket so I made my own from gasket paper. The paper that I used was a little thicker that the original gasket would that make a difference ?
Cheers Manky :confused:
01-11-2010, 05:08 AM
rspears

The first question that comes to mind is what did you put in it for lubrication? Secondly, is it a cold weather problem, and does the stiffness stay with it even after you've driven enough to warm things up?
01-11-2010, 08:36 AM
HOTRODPAINT

All of my toys in the '60s and '70s were GM fourspeeds. Two things come to mind....

Is the clutch releasing all the way? If it's dragging a little, they will act that way. You might try adjusting the clutch linkage push the throwout bearing a little farther in, to make sure.

There are some brass rings that slow or speed up the gears so they will get to the same speed before they mesh. If the synchro rings are worn, it will do that.
01-11-2010, 10:47 AM
Dave Severson

If the linkage is sloppy and the shifter worn excessively could just be that....
01-11-2010, 01:13 PM
manky

What grade oil should I use ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rspears

The first question that comes to mind is what did you put in it for lubrication? Secondly, is it a cold weather problem, and does the stiffness stay with it even after you've driven enough to warm things up?

I think it's 80W/90 gear oil. What oil should be in a Muncie ? It's not cold here in Australia average days around 90 degrees. And even after driving 30 to 40 miles it's still the same.
01-11-2010, 01:28 PM
manky

There is no linkage

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

All of my toys in the '60s and '70s were GM fourspeeds. Two things come to mind....

Is the clutch releasing all the way? If it's dragging a little, they will act that way. You might try adjusting the clutch linkage push the throwout bearing a little farther in, to make sure.

There are some brass rings that slow or speed up the gears so they will get to the same speed before they mesh. If the synchro rings are worn, it will do that.

It is a full hydraulic set up with a Howe hydraulic throwout bearing and Wilwood master cylinder. I am unable to measure how much clearance the clutch has because of the bell housing. But you can freely turn the drive shaft while depressing the clutch . To me it is a bit stiff when pulling it out of gear. Not just going into gear.
01-11-2010, 01:38 PM
manky

I am getting a new shifter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

If the linkage is sloppy and the shifter worn excessively could just be that....

I am getting a new shifter. But not till May this year. The cook and I are coming to America then. I was looking at the Summit racing brand shifters. They seem to be good value for money. Unless I find a new one at a swap meet before I get to Summit.
01-11-2010, 02:03 PM
gassersrule_196

i was just reading about this on another site make sure the 80/90 your using is GL-4 AND NOT GL-5 gl-5 is corrosive to the syncros
01-11-2010, 04:35 PM
RestoRod

Quote:

Originally Posted by manky

"The cook and I???"

Hope the little woman isn't reading this or you may be living on beans and wieners for a while.:LOL::LOL::LOL:
01-11-2010, 08:36 PM
manky

To tell the truth

Quote:

Originally Posted by RestoRod

Hope the little woman isn't reading this or you may be living on beans and wieners for a while.:LOL::LOL::LOL:

I do half of the cooking. And she knows that I love her. Some times you've got to try to get a reaction. Try this one at home next time they mention Tiger Woods on the news say ( That poor guy just leave him alone ):D
01-11-2010, 08:48 PM
manky

Doh

Quote:

Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

i was just reading about this on another site make sure the 80/90 your using is GL-4 AND NOT GL-5 gl-5 is corrosive to the syncros

On the back of the oil container it says it meets or exceeds these
SAE 80W/90
API GL-5,MT-1
US MIL-PRF-2105F
Mack GO-H
So I'll go to the store tomorrow and look for some GL-4. And give that a go.
Are there any additives that would be recommended for a Muncie.
01-12-2010, 03:04 PM
gassersrule_196

heres the site from which i found the info,

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132531
01-12-2010, 03:39 PM
Rrumbler

If it is dragging coming out of gear, it is most likely the clutch not disengaging completely; there must be some way to check it for proper clearance. Synchros would mess with the re-engagement of the gear but not dis-engagement, unless the synchro teeth are messed up; if it is just the brasses, they will not go in without a double clutching, or grinding. 80-90W should be right; I don't know about the corrosive thing, though.
01-12-2010, 04:16 PM
manky

Checking clearance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrumbler

If it is dragging coming out of gear, it is most likely the clutch not disengaging completely; there must be some way to check it for proper clearance. Synchros would mess with the re-engagement of the gear but not dis-engagement, unless the synchro teeth are messed up; if it is just the brasses, they will not go in without a double clutching, or grinding. 80-90W should be right; I don't know about the corrosive thing, though.

The problem with checking the clutch clearance is the bell housing is a Lakewood racing unit and it dose not have any inspection ports. I could use a 1 inch hole saw and put a rubber bung it after. How much clearance should there be ?:rolleyes:
01-13-2010, 11:01 PM
manky

Don't tell me that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evolvo

Hey Manky,
Its been along time since I opened a Muncie but......since you bought it "used" you probably don't know what kind of abuse it has sustained. Since you seem pretty confident that the clutch is disengaging it may be time to start looking further into the tranny. Pull the side cover back off and see if the shift forks are bent, or the bushings in the cover loose. Who knows, the main shaft could be bent or other internal damage could be causing these issues. Might be time for a teardown.
Good Luck

That's not what I need to hear. :CRY:
01-14-2010, 11:42 PM
Rrumbler

It seems to me that you could check the clutch release clearance with a long gauge through the clutch release fork opening. I think my Hayes has about .010+ clearance, but if you adjust it so that it just barely turns freely without any drag, it should be good.
01-15-2010, 01:42 PM
manky

There is no room

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrumbler

It seems to me that you could check the clutch release clearance with a long gauge through the clutch release fork opening. I think my Hayes has about .010+ clearance, but if you adjust it so that it just barely turns freely without any drag, it should be good.

That's a good idea but there is not enough room to get to the fork opening.:HMMM:
The car that it's in is a Holden Torana(about the size and shape as a chevy Monza). It's not meant to have a Chev motor and transmission.
When I installed it I left the shifter out so I could put my hand through the floor and turn the drive shaft. I put it in first with a wrench. Then pressed the clutch pedal I could turn it over for about 1/3 of the movement of the pedal.
I might have to get a master cylinder with a longer stroke or larger diameter.

Cheers Manky
01-21-2010, 08:48 AM
bentwings

It's been a long time since I've been inside of a Muncie. The brass blocker rings have already been discussed. Plain old 90 wt gear lube is what was used. Some used ATF back in the day but that was before ATF had all the new additives. I would not use it today.

I would look to the bearing in the rear of the input shaft where the nose of the output shaft goes. If this little bearing gets rough it can cause a drag on the output shaft and cause shifting problems. I've only seen this a few times back in the old days but on a revived trans it is a possibility.

Also any of the bearings can cause problems. The input shaft, the main ball bearing on the output shaft, even the tail shaft bushing, and the cluster rollers. Usually these are noise problems but a failed one that causes sticking would cause drag similar to clutch drag.

I think if the clutch is dragging you might not get it in gear from neutral clutch out and getting it into reverse would be a problem too.

Right next to this is the pilot bearing. If this fails the input shaft will try to turn at crankshaft speed and cause all kinds of problems.

Jack the car up and put it on stands. Start the motor and put the trans in gear, step on the brakes. Let the brakes off and see if the rear tires start turning. If they start turning the clutch is probably not releasing completely or the pilot bearing has failed.

I'd go thru the whole trans and check things out. They are not difficult to take apart. These are very sweet when they work. A good hurst shifter is a must.
01-21-2010, 08:32 PM
manky

I've changed the oil

I've changed to a different oil SAE 80 GL-4 and it's better but not as good as it could be. I'll run it for s a few weeks then change it again. To make sure that all the GL-5 is flushed out. A new shifter is on my shopping list. There a some good swap meets coming up soon so I hope to find one there if not it'll be when we get to America. If that doesn't work then I'll have to strip it down, are there any good workshop manuals that I should be on the lookout for ?
02-11-2010, 11:59 PM
manky

Thanks to all those that helped

I've found the problem. It was to do with the arm that comes from the side of the box. Where it attaches to the shifter rod. It was twisted and and putting pressure on each end of the shift rod and the shifter it self. All I had to do was loosen the lock nuts then retighten them. :LOL:
So thanks for trying to help now you are all my new best friends :)
02-12-2010, 04:54 PM
gassersrule_196

but remember NO GL-5 gl-4 only gear oil that is:eek: