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Thread: I think I have a BIG problem
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    Henry Rifle's Avatar
    Henry Rifle is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    I think I have a BIG problem

     



    Chevy Gen 1 with Fast Burn heads, hydraulic roller cam, roller rockers. With #1 at top dead center and the rockers adjusted to zero lash, I can compress the exhaust lifter internal plunger spring by pushing down on the rocker. I cannot do that on the intake lifter. It's solid as a rock. I checked every other lifter in the motor, and all have some free play. To confirm, I took the rocker arms completely off, and pushed down on the exhaust pushrod and get the play I expect, but not on the intake side.

    I think the internals of the lifter are toast. Opinions?

    https://youtu.be/1ZT29cSy8xw
    Jack

    Gone to Texas

  2. #2
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Have you tried to put some pressure on the rocker like in this video? Different motor but same results...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9oDaMLCME



  3. #3
    rspears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Rifle View Post
    I think the internals of the lifter are toast. Opinions?

    https://youtu.be/1ZT29cSy8xw
    I'd agree with you Jack, and assume that you're chasing a lifter "tick" or rough running condition?
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

  4. #4
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Just maybe, that lifter got a slug of junk, not allowing it to bleed down.
    Remove, take it apart, and check it.



  5. #5
    Henry Rifle's Avatar
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    Roger, I suddenly got a lot of clatter and a miss, so I pulled both valve covers and ran the lifters again. That's when I ran into this on #1 cylinder. I did note that at TDC with no rockers installed, both pushrods were at the same lift.

    Denny, I did put significant pressure on it, but got no movement at all. I guess I'll have to pull it to check, but on this car, it's a boatload of work. No choice at this point, though.

    Motor1.JPG

    Motor2.JPG
    Last edited by Henry Rifle; 10-03-2017 at 08:54 PM.
    Jack

    Gone to Texas

  6. #6
    rspears's Avatar
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    Jack,
    I'd be tempted to put 1/2 can of SeaFoam in the crankcase and take it out for a drive, keeping the rpm's up to see if maybe that one lifter will flush out. I would not be looking forward to pulling that intake, either....
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

  7. #7
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    Both pushrods will be at the same lift even when the cylinder is not on the compression stroke

    You may have lost galley plug at end of that lifter galley and hence lost oil presure to to lifters resulting in that condition

    can you see if the dogbone is holding the lifters in alignment??????

    And what did that spark plug look like?
    Last edited by jerry clayton; 10-04-2017 at 06:30 AM.

  8. #8
    Henry Rifle's Avatar
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    Jerry,

    Both pushrods will be at the same lift even when the cylinder is not on the compression stroke

    Nope. When the piston is on the intake, the exhaust pushrod will be higher, since that valve is closed.

    You may have lost galley plug at end of that lifter galley and hence lost oil pressure to lifters resulting in that condition.

    Good thought, but I didn’t mention that I had 50 psi of oil pressure. However, I did mention that all the other lifters had some travel when at TDC.

    Can you see if the dogbone is holding the lifters in alignment?

    Nope. No way with these heads without pulling the intake.

    And what did that spark plug look like?

    Normal. I didn’t drive it very far after I had the problem.
    Jack

    Gone to Texas

  9. #9
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    ((Denny, I did put significant pressure on it, but got no movement at all. I guess I'll have to pull it to check, but on this car, it's a boatload of work. No choice at this point, though.))
    I mean, did you apply a steady pressure for awhile. Not just depress, hold, and release.
    Sorry, I'm not sure I would take it out for a drive, keeping the rpm's up to see if maybe that one lifter will flush out.
    Plus, if it has been running, and you pulled the covers, and can move the lifters easily, you must have anti-pump up lifters. Because normally, they all will be a little stiff, except the ones that had, pressure on them. If you hand rotate the engine slowly, that would bleed all of them down enough to tell if they are functioning correctly. But, if one will not bleed down, it has to come out to be checked. I'm thinking you had a miss on one cylinder. That would indicate a froze lifter.

    ps: Rotate the engine so that valve is open. Go get some coffee, eat a sandwich. Come back, and rotate until there is no pressure on that cylinder, and then see if you have any play.
    Last edited by DennyW; 10-04-2017 at 08:12 AM.



  10. #10
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    Jack-you got it wrong---------when a valve is closed, the pushrod will be lower

    And if you are at top dead center on the compression stroke, both valves closed and push rods down low(no cam lift) and if on top dead center on the overlap (exhaust stroke changing to intake) both valves will be open and the pushrods raised-------they should be equal(or very close) as this is the OVERLAP and how many cams are timed by using two equal length flat tappets and a straight edge across them------

    Also, your problem may be associated with roller failure loosing bearing pins which will give you some play----------
    DennyW likes this.

  11. #11
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    Please elaborate on the straight edge cam timing technique
    .
    Education is expensive. Keep that in mind, and you'll never be terribly upset when a project goes awry.
    EG

  12. #12
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    Allright---------when doing lots of engine stuff at races, etc and you want to change cams, or just the timing of them----in the cylinder that is 180 opsitite of #1---( in chev/mopar firing order it will be #6)you put two pieces of round stock that is lifter diameter and exactly same length into the 2 tappet bosses--with a straight edge across the tops you can determine when the cam lobes are exactly same rise and that will equal exact split valve timing centerline------at that point set the crank back from tdc to advance cam timing and forward from tdc to retard cam timing----it is helpful to have a cam drive like a Jessel belt or Donovan etc gear drive to make easy the adjustments


    over the years of racing--I've had several cams ground that had the exact same base circle so I could quickly change cams without having to adjust the valve gap clearance
    DennyW and 40FordDeluxe like this.

  13. #13
    Henry Rifle's Avatar
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    Jerry, you're right on the push rod position. I was very, very tired and frustrated.

    Denny, the engine had been sitting for several weeks, since right after I noticed the problem. I was just 100 yards up the street, and turned right around. Right away, I put it up on jack stands and took care of other problems, such as a bad trans output seal and a leaky transmission oil pan. I'm going to take a more detailed look at it tomorrow.

    I'm still dog tired, BTW. Thanks, guys.

    Denny, it's tomorrow. I did what you suggested about leaving the valve open. No luck. Still frozen. I've got it about 3/4 torn down already. Film at eleven . . . or whenever I get the urge.
    Last edited by Henry Rifle; 10-05-2017 at 09:13 AM.
    stovens likes this.
    Jack

    Gone to Texas

  14. #14
    Henry Rifle's Avatar
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    I removed the top half of the motor in a couple of hours this morning and pulled #1 I & E roller lifters. The exhaust lifter would compress with finger pressure. The intake was dead stuck. I couldn't move it at all. Totally different 'feel' than the exhaust.

    I removed the retaining clip, disassembled the lifter and couldn't see any dirt or anything else wrong. Then, I completely cleaned it with solvent. When I reassembled it, it seemed to work OK. I'll probably replace it anyhow.

    BTW, as soon as I took this photo, I plugged the I & E exhaust ports and covered the galley completely to keep the junk out.

    Cleanup and reassembly will take a bit longer.

    TearDown.JPG
    stovens likes this.
    Jack

    Gone to Texas

  15. #15
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    .........................
    Last edited by DennyW; 10-05-2017 at 06:16 PM.



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