Rebuilding a 460, EFI or normally carb?

[btsave]

Hi, had a recent engine fire in my '63 Galaxie, with a transplanted 460, 4 speed manual, power brakes, mild cam, Holley 830 4 BBL with mechanical advance, MSD 6L.

here's the link:

Burnt Engine pictures by btsave - Photobucket

My question is... now that I need to replace the card, wiring, hoses, brake booster, belts, MSD, front harness... what can I do to both increase performance and, of primary importance, increase gas mileage? I currently get an average of just 6mpg which limits my enjoyment of the car.

I am considering an EFI... but don't know what choices I should consider nor whether a normally aspirated carb would be better... most of my experience has been on mouse motors, so this BBF is still relatively alien to me...

Any suggestions would be helpful at this point.

Thanks!

Bart in FL

"eye candy shot"

[jerry clayton]

MSD has a new throttle body unit out that looks pretty good

[rspears]

You're going to get support on both sides here so I'll start. If it were mine I would be looking at one of the new self-learning EFI units that bolts on like a carb. MSD's new Atomic unit looks to be an all inclusive, compact package with only a few wires to hook up. FAST's EZ EFI is another, and Holley has one, too. I'm running the Edelbrock ProFlow XT, and as one of the first SBF packages out it was not self learn but it can be converted with the addition of a wide band O2 sensor and uploading a different firmware package, a two minute process. There're lots of other packages out there, with wide range of pricing.

The beauty of the EFI is that you can change your Air/Fuel map in easy stages, if you go into the self program mode, where with carbs you're going to be pulling it apart to re-jet primaries & secondaries chasing the "ideal mix". Also, with a ECU controlled distributor, timing changes are the same simple map change. I love the flexibility of tuning with EFI.

[sunsetdart]

The new Atomic EFI from MSD is much more simpler than FAST or Holley. It does not require a return line, but you do need to mount a temp sensor and O2 sensor. Everything else like MAP and MAS are self contained in the unit itself.
Go to MSDignition.com and check it out. It ain't cheap but either are the other ones....it's $2290.

[Dave Severson]

If fuel mileage is your priority, I believe you might still be disappointed with the engine even after installing an EFI conversion. The 460's were built for stump pulling torque, not economy. Even if it double your mileage, which is doubtful, it still isn't going to be that great....

[IC2]

As Dave S said a 460 and good gas mileage are seldom used in the same sentence. Cubic inches take lots of air-fuel mixture to be burned to move those trash can size pistons and a 4000 pound car (yeah it's about that heavy, I had one with a 406).

I'm looking very seriously at the MSD Atomic as a retrofit for my '31 but will wait until about this time next year as there really is very little experience since MSD just started shipping units about 6 weeks ago. As far as no return system - yes, to a point, but there is a questionnaire to determine yes or no for your use They do have a new forum just for these EFI that I joined a couple days ago, so will try to keep up to date on the development and make a decision in the fall.

Another way to go is the Megasquirt EFI - and they too have forums dedicated to this system. It's really a DIY install, can be a little frustrating from what I can see (the available info is kinda scattered) but you do have a choice of throttle body or direct injection. Then there are several levels of complexity. Cost wise - probably about the cheapest if you can source and build the modules.

The other systems - Roger seems to have the good info there

[jerry clayton]

The 2 different 460 powered trucks I had ( 1970 & 1974 plus 1987 van) got 9 mpg towing Chaparal gooseneck trailer and race car---I also had 2 different Lincolns 1970 & 1978 that got damn good milage even at high speeds--I can't imagine what you have so screwed up to only get 6 mph

[btsave]

The 2 different 460 powered trucks I had ( 1970 & 1974 plus 1987 van) got 9 mpg towing Chaparal gooseneck trailer and race car---I also had 2 different Lincolns 1970 & 1978 that got damn good milage even at high speeds--I can't imagine what you have so screwed up to only get 6 mph

screwed up?

didn't the fact that my engine burned up give you any clue that something was amiss?



seriously, had problems with the second 2 bbls opening at proper intervals, was still changing jets, needles, etc. to better tune the engine. At higher rpms, engine appeared starved... so ran rich while experimenting. I think the carb, which pre-dated modern ethanol enriched fuel, had suffered some internal deterioration which I had missed.
Not actually certain what caused the fire...
Bart

[sunsetdart]

btsave...............saw the pics and sorry to see anyones ride go up in flames....good thing you're ok, that's the most important.... do you know what caused it?

[btsave]

btsave...............saw the pics and sorry to see anyones ride go up in flames....good thing you're ok, that's the most important.... do you know what caused it?

Not really certain, no fuel smell, no obvious electrical shorts... in fact engine was still running (idling) as the smoke & flames were billowing out. No fuel under the car and all clamps still in place. I popped the hood a crack and flooded the walls with water (only thing handy outside the car... fire extinguisher in the front seat, but I neglected to grab it & hesitated getting back into the car!) to drop the flames, then dumped a wet blanket over the engine to smother the rest of the flames. I think that possibly a piece of DEI under hood thermal lining may have come lose, fell onto the exhaust manifold and caught fire. The lining is fire/heat resistant to over 300 degrees, but not flame resistant at running manifold temperatures (over 500 degrees). If that happened the ensuing flames would have quickly spread to wiring, looms and them back to the rest of the thermal linings... the entire engine looks to be coated with rubber from the underside of the lining.... but this is just a guess as any excessive heat and flames would have had the same effect.

[billy zz]

i dont have any advice.
but god am i sorry that happened to you.

[btsave]

Just an aside... I reported the claim to my new insurance company (Classic Collectors from Infinity Insurance) on Monday, March 5th. I get assigned an appraiser/ liaison (Mark), who I called & emailed on Tuesday, and was told he was not the assigned appraiser/liaison, who then gave me a different contact's info.

I then called this one (Jack), emailed as well and waited/ When no one had contacted me by Wednesday, I called them, emailed them and then contacted my insurance agent who called them. Finally, late Wednesday night, I get a call telling me that a local "investigator" (Alexandria) had been assigned and to contact her. So, I called her Thursday morning, 3/8, only to find out she would be away from 3/8 to 3/20! So, called, emailed, called my insurance agent... etc. Got back an email from Infinity (Jack) saying he was aware of the issue and that "have been working on securing another appraiser to inspect as I agree with you 17 days is too long. " Emailed again first thing this morning to him (Jack). Now, Friday, 3/9, still no information, no appraisal, nothing! I cannot get other cars out of my garage as the burnt one is blocking it, the car smells up the garage and it sickens me just looking at it every day!

Do not do business with that company (Classic Collectors from Infinity Insurance)! You get what you pay for.... no, actually less!!!

I had changed the policy to this new company, based on premium, in the middle of February at the recommendation of my insurance agent. My old insurance company, American Collectors (American Bankers), had been great, but the new premium was almost $1000 less! I had only 3 claims with American in 14 years, all of which were settled by going to a local body shop or ASE certified shop, who then submitted the appraisal and were paid within a day or two! Plus, they worked with each shop to make adjustments when additional damage was discovered! American Collectors Insurance rocks! The other? not so much!

[jerry clayton]

do you have an electric fuel pump?

What fuel pressure were you trying to run??

[btsave]

do you have an electric fuel pump?

What fuel pressure were you trying to run??

Jerry,
Currently a mechanical,,gauge on carb melted at 7 #'s, which is about where it had been running 7 -11# on the gauge, if I go EFI with Atomic MSD, will obviously need to replace with the one in the kit.
Bart

[jerry clayton]

way too much fuel pressure--probably flooded over the bowls/vents and at idle just kept pumping fuel---thats no wonder you only got around 6 mpg