i can machine any thing ....if not i have a shot gun and a big hammer
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i can machine any thing ....if not i have a shot gun and a big hammer
Pat-what does the aftermarket have??.
.....O rings
Surprised they would hold up with a high pressure oil pump.
Gary, a properly installed o-ring on a flat surface application will hold extreme high pressures. Putting in a bigger o-ring is not going to improve your seal - it was designed as a system, and there are literally thousands out there that work just fine. You've found the problem, that the o-ring was not in the groove, and got pinched. If you install it right your problem will be gone.
Roger my thought is if one had a enlarged flat seal like that of a oil filter it would be more secure.My background with Astro vans has seen many if not all the oil cooler lines leaking in one fashion or another.Same with the S10's.And I am not saying it is all the O-rings.No doubt after I took it back apart it was a error.But then again you can't see to check the o-ring surface if it is properly seated.That surely is a critical part to the life of the engine.Now if it was a engine on a engine stand during assembly tipped upside down to be able to see what is going on,that would be something entirely different.So my idea of a wider flat seal like that of a oil filter that was secured to the adapter I would think would be more of a fail safe method.Just my thoughts through and again contributed by the background in the Astro vans oil cooler lines issue.
There are a bunch of Astro and S10 guys that have done the oil cooler line delete for leaking issue they have had.So it does have some history of it being a problem over time.I honestly don't know if that is true of the aftermarket ones once they have been on for awhile.
The reason for the flat seal on the filter is the need to "pinch" it in the groove on the thin, spun metal filter base. An o-ring would not work well in that application, or at least the manufacturing process would change driving the mass production costs up. Also, that flat seal on the filter is designed/intended for a limited life where the o-ring on the adapter is long term. IMO you will be increasing your chances of problems down the road by machining a bigger groove and using a filter gasket, but that's just my opinion.
1Gary, just a point of information. It's not all in the shape of the seal that gives it strength, case in point, high pressure / high flow hydraulic systems used in heavy equipment still use a basic o-ring. The effectiveness to seal is really in the housing and how the seal is kept in place. I think a square edge seal would be problematic if you are pushing straight against it. On an oil filter, it's rotated up to the seat to make a seal and most are only rated to handle less than 100 psi as there isn't any shoulder to capture the seal.
My... point oh two! fwiw,ymmv,yada yada yada..
Ok I can see each of you guys points and they are valid.What do you think would be a upgrade to the current design??.:confused:
Oh with a case key on my key ring,most seals on heavy equipment are on cylinders sliding back and forth threw the seal.So there is no way a square seal would ever work in that application.But I do get the point of them holding up under high pressure.And in heavy equipment those o-rings and the surface area is substantial.I mean they are huge and thick.
I do not see any reason to attempt to upgrade a design that has proven itself in so many applications. Install the right o-ring correctly, torque it down and it will not leak, provided your flat surface pieces are not warped, and fit together as designed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gary
Actually, 1gary, I was thinking of the other end of the piston! where the fluid line bolts to the cylinder.. but, no matter, the example comes to the same conclusion. High Pressure is captured against a shoulder and the O ring fills the void which pushes against the shoulder(s).. The square seal on a oil filter is compressed into the filter housing and uses the housing shoulders for support.
It's worked very well on millions and millions of vehicles, provided it is installed correctly. I think you should use the recent failure as a learning experience and turn your efforts elsewhere!
Again, I mean no dis-respect and it's only my opinion! 8-)
Had a 10' box truck with a SBC and a oil cooler.Well that one leaked too.
Same mechanic put the adapter on that one too? Gary, I think you've got consensus here that the factory design is good, but that cannot account for bad installation. Besides, we're talking about things that are pretty mundane here, right?
Roger-I have admitted the possibility on this repair was done in error.I am not being defensive about that.I also said it is impossible to see the o-ring mating surface after it's bolted back on.That I was tired of the trial and error watching my hard earned money in oil pour out on the floor.
Roger where we respectfully disagree is the topic of 10 yrs on a Astro site seeing failure after failure and now recently being on a S10 site seeing the same where the repair was the delete and then having me think back to when I owned a 10 box truck with a SBC with a oil cooler and that leaked too.I am summarizing from that experience/history there is a issue of the design that could use improvement.
I bring it up here because of the trust level I have in the members here and because I believe in general a root foundation of what I think hot rodding is,the innovations of the possibilities what can be.
A example of that is my project a no window high top cargo Astro van with a SBC 383,700R4,Ford 9",lifted 3",with a custom built sleeper behind the driver's seat.I think it is kind of the same thing in a way.
I'll admit ignorance of this particular design.. if this has been going on for 10 years at another website, and now is being seen at another site that again is specific to the brand... I'd say it's either a terrible design or maybe not a high enough priority / criticality issue to investigate repair.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gary
10 plus years is a long time and no-one has "fixed" it? That means (to me) it isn't a big problem or ?????????