Thread: Anyone used molasses to derust??

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Here is a lower ranking view point from what you have said---IF HE LEAVES .003 when boring, he probably uses a drill driven hand held hone to finish the bore----Does he have a Sunnen CK10?????

IF HE CHECKS THE ALIGN BORE with the equipment he has AND says it generally doesn't need it----He doesn't have equipment for align honing---the words from him are the words generally said by machine shop persons would would like to have this equipment but don't--
As a older than me guy once said---there are those who have the equipment and there are the ones who say its not needed but wish they had it!!!!

And, please, I'm not saying he doesn't---

I've not used the molasses thing, but have used phosphoric acid, vinegar, and oxalic acid for rust treatment. I'd recommend agains pool acid (known as Muratic Acid, which is hydrochloric acid...HCL) it's much more reactive and thus requires considerably more care, and harder to neutralize and dispose of. I'd typed out a long discussion of the one's I used earlier today, but the site had a hiccup this morning and ate it.

Oxalic acid is the primarly ingreadiant in CLR, a product marketed for household use to remove rust and mineral scale. As a practical matter that may be the easiest/best/safest product for a one time/hobby project like a block. If you've got facility or vendor support, the more aggressive acids might be viable.

Products like Ospho, naval jelly, Rust Mort, and most other commercially available brand name rust "converter" products are phosphoric acid based materials, so if you buy straight phosphoric acid you can avoid paying for dyes, advertising, packaging, and all the rest of the convenience costs.

I hate to confuse it more but I remember reading some where that the acid used could also change the molecular structure of the surface on the metal its placed on. I dont know how this would affect your application, if at all? Soda Pop should be watered down so that its effects will be slower,weaker, that straight phosphoric acid.
Another idea to remove the rust could be to get a couple kids and give them some wire brushes/

Oh ya, I have not used molasses.

No wonder I get an upset stomach from Coke ! I remember hearing years ago you could use it to clean rust off of bumpers, too.

I agree with the damage to machined surfaces not being caused by the molasses, but by the rust that was there already pitting the metal, and then once the rust was gone the pitting was evident.

I borrowed a product from my Son Don one time, called Evaporust, that he bought at Northern Tool. He used it and didn't like it, but I soaked some cowl lights in it that were really rusty and after an overnight soak they literally came out like brand new. It made the metal look like the day it was made and it left the painted parts intact. I think we might fill the cooling passages with that product and leave it overnight or so and see how that does. When Don used it I think he did a quick soak, so the secret seems to be overnight or more.

Today I called some feed stores in the area and found out what you need to buy is "liquid molasses". Two local stores sell it, but one wants to sell it in no less than 100 gallon quantities........they want $ 1.25 a gallon. The other store will sell it in quantities of 5 gallons or more, and get $ 1.49 a gallon (your container in both cases). I think what I will do is go pickup 20 gallons and one of those plastic livestock feeder tubs. Then I will soak the 350 Chevy engine block I have sitting around and see how it does on that one. If it doesn't damage that one I think it will give Dan the confidence to drop his Olds into the same mixture.

Never thought I would know so much about molasses !

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

No wonder I get an upset stomach from Coke ! I remember hearing years ago you could use it to clean rust off of bumpers, too.

I agree with the damage to machined surfaces not being caused by the molasses, but by the rust that was there already pitting the metal, and then once the rust was gone the pitting was evident.

I borrowed a product from my Son Don one time, called Evaporust, that he bought at Northern Tool. He used it and didn't like it, but I soaked some cowl lights in it that were really rusty and after an overnight soak they literally came out like brand new. It made the metal look like the day it was made and it left the painted parts intact. I think we might fill the cooling passages with that product and leave it overnight or so and see how that does. When Don used it I think he did a quick soak, so the secret seems to be overnight or more.

Today I called some feed stores in the area and found out what you need to buy is "liquid molasses". Two local stores sell it, but one wants to sell it in no less than 100 gallon quantities........they want $ 1.25 a gallon. The other store will sell it in quantities of 5 gallons or more, and get $ 1.49 a gallon (your container in both cases). I think what I will do is go pickup 20 gallons and one of those plastic livestock feeder tubs. Then I will soak the 350 Chevy engine block I have sitting around and see how it does on that one. If it doesn't damage that one I think it will give Dan the confidence to drop his Olds into the same mixture.

Never thought I would know so much about molasses !

Don

I also recently used some ZEP Rust Remover and was very happy with the results. I bought it at home depot about 10 dollars a gallon. I used it on HEAVILY rusted shocks for the mini bike I have. Left the parts soaking for 10 hours and they came out free of any rust. Bare metal and the chrome that was not rusted was the only thing on the metal. They came out CLEAN. I believe the stuff is biodegradable also.

I actually looked at that Zep stuff tonight when I was in Home Depot, but I bought a 54 gallon tub while I was there and @ $ 10 a gallon I figured it would be too expensive to fill it up with that one. So tomorrow I am going to drive to the feed store and pick up about 20 gallons of molasses and fill the tub up with it and water. I think I have convinced Dan that it won't eat his block away, and if there is any pitting it was there from the rusting itself.

I'll post some pictures of before, during, and after the block comes out of the mixture. That tub worked out to be the perfect size for the 455 block to drop down into.

Don

This is sure going to be one sweet engine when he's done!

yep thats the stuff i have evaporust had a old 396/375 hp this was before my hot tank . even with a hot load in the tank it would of not help much .it was very bad. i stuck the block in two HD garbage bags tape around the bag s put a drip pan under the block then fill the block up with evaporust . it did not do what i needed it to do the block ended up getting shot blasted it was very bad with a lot of pits fresh deck and bore clean it up good. but the block was getting bad.it was setting on the timming cover side down in a old shop with a bad roof pitted up the front face and rusted off the timming cover pins . i think you will fined that evaporust and your molasses mix is about the same .about 15 years ago i had some 454 block came out of a scrap yard we played around with some muratic acid you could get it to eat rust .but i ever could get it to stop rusting the block up .i have used metal prep that work ok on small spots

I have heard that it makes for a sweet running engine

Add some butter to that and whew you got a winner! It's funny to hear of these old school processes, that I'm willing to bet work pretty darn good. Just hate to think of all the bacteria and smell that might come off that mollasis after it gets to fermenting. Sort of like stuff our grand parents did, that we blew off, but really worked well! Keep us updated to how this works! I have cofidence that whatever you guys do, will result in a nice end product.

Blue Berry pancakes with molasses NOW you've got somthing GOOD

So did you see or not see Sunnen CK10? Alighn hone?

In the 34 years that I have had my align hone, there has not been ONE used block that didn't benifit from the job. I can tell he doesn't like to or can't by his pricing of the align hone job higher than his bore and hone cylinders( again, this sorta supports hand honing cylinders)

I agree, and just always asked for it as part of the machining process, on any other engine I have had done. But the guy in Sarasota voiced the same opinion of "let's check it first for trueness before we say it really needs to be done." This isn't going to be a race engine and will probably never see over 3500 rpms, because even my 331 stroker with 4:30 gears never is run that high........we just mainly use our cars to cruise around in at low rpms. If we were going to race them we would spend the extra effort and money to take them a few steps above a good "street rebuild." Both shops also said that if a main hadn't spun it might not be needed to line hone it, and the engine didn't have that problem, from what the block looks like.

I think what I respect about this guy is that he isn't like going to the repair shop for tires and then they try to sell you brakes, ball joints, and a muffler. He asked how the engine was going to be used, and suggested those operations that would make it work within those guidelines. I feel he has the equipment and ability to do whatever we would ask be done, because he had several high dollar motors sitting there being built. That, and he was able to perform two jobs for us already in the past that other shops in the area refused to touch.

Don

Oh, and to answer your other question, Jerry, I didn't check to see what exact equipment he has, and it would be lost on me anyway as I don't know one from the other.

hand hone or not 003 is the norm with out deck plates ck 10 or not shop in town bores closer then 003 and they have a ck and you can see bore marks in the walls some shop think this way if you have the machines they need to be paid on so you can not pay on them if setting some time if it needs it or not it gets done did you ask if he tru decks with the BHJ ???? on EX seat s it has alot to do with the year of head .if it as heat induted seat they do not need hard seats , some of the older heads you can cut thru putting a seat in so some guys do not want to try to look for a head if they screw up

Pat, he did make reference to that BHJ machine, says it registers on the main and cam and then mills from those points, or something to that effect. Like I said, all of that is Greek to me.

Don