In 2 months I will be starting my new job as an auto tech. and will need a complete set of tools. I cant afford anything like snap-on but I do want nice tools.
What type of tools do you guys perfere and why?
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In 2 months I will be starting my new job as an auto tech. and will need a complete set of tools. I cant afford anything like snap-on but I do want nice tools.
What type of tools do you guys perfere and why?
Craftsman tools are nice, LIFE TIME GUARANTEE!!!. I am not sure but I remember hearing snap on were craftsman rejects? Dont know , others will be sure to follow in.....
Tweak, if you are starting a new job, you should have some tools already and have a feel for them. Tools that a guy uses to build his hot rod are much different than the tools that a guy uses to make his living.... holding a tool for a few hours on Saturday is completely different than holding a wrench for a 40 hour week. The driveway guy doesnt care if he makes a few more wrist turns, gets a blister from the wrench casting, etc...while the professional mechanic cares a bunch!
You should talk to your co workers at your new job to see what they are using. They should be able to help you define a starter set of whatever brand you choose.
Craftsman makes their legacy wrenches that have cheapened considerably in the last decade or so. I have Craftsman wrenches that were made in the 1950's that are decent wrenches while the later stuff is stuff to put in your trunk for emergency use. Craftsman also makes a professional line with polished handles that are better. Snap On has gotten stupid-expensive in the last five years but it is still the standard of the industry.
Dont spend your money on the gimmick tools, buy basic combo wrenches, sockets, etc. It takes years to build a good set of tools but, if you buy good stuff, your wife can sell them at the garage sale when you're gone.
mike in tucson
Also the company that your going to work for should all ready have a place they use and will more than likely get you a break on the price.
It does take forever to buy up good tools. fortunately for me my uncle just brought his box to the shop, I haven't had to get anything.
Snap-On, Proto, Mac, Matco, Cornwell. Good tools. Proto I like, they are suppsoed to be what they use in aerospace industry. they can be purchased at stores rather than waiting for the truck. you can find many things used in classifieds and on e-bay. watch your local craigslist, sometimes you see fantastic deals. I bought a drop front proto chest brand new off of ebay for like 200 bucks plus the shipping. guy learned his lesson and raised price to close to wholesale after that. big box, cheaper than you can get the craftsman version for.
make a list of what you will need and keep it by the computer, start doing regular searches and as you find things check them off. the big outfits, snap-on specifically, do loans and credit as well. they know you need the stuff to work, and need work to give them money, so they work with you. the deals are out there. my mechanic for years moved out of state, before moving he was selling his home set (did shadetree work) which was mostly snapon, all tools, rolling chest and top box with the air tools for under 2k. If I had the money I would have jumped on it like a frat boy on a beer.
I am sure the pros will weigh in with their more qualified thoughts now. good luck with the new work
Red
If you're going to be a mechanic tools are an investment, not an expense. I'd stick with the tool trucks, Snap-on, and Matco have always been my favorites. I'd suggest you use what you have for now, starting building a good set as you can afford it. Wouldn't be too smart to invest a lot of money in tools till you see if turning wrenches is what you really want to do the rest of your life....
In your dreams!!!! Snap-on makes the majority of their own tools, especially the hand tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver
As others have said, Craftsman is probably fine for a weekender, but when you use them all day every day I prefer something better. Guarantee doesn't mean much when you have to keep going back to Sears to get the same stuff replaced all the time.... Time wasted waiting for some cashier who doesn't know anything about tools is not a good time.....
Another way to save some money is to shop the pawn shops. There are two kinds of pawn shops. The first one takes each socket and wrench out of an unclaimed box and sells them individually (at stupid prices). The second pawn shop just leaves the box intact and sells it as is. I used to hit various pawn shops as I traveled, and if I looked inside a tool box they had for sale and saw some name brand stuff mixed in with the jap tools, I did some quick figuring in my head and made them an offer.
I ended up with lots of SnapOn, Mac, Craftsman, etc tools, and some jap stuff that I keep around to weld and cut on to make special, one time wrenches.
One word of advice. When you start your job do not become a tool truck addict until you start making some money and know you can afford to buy them. I have seen so many techs at the body shop and marina's I have worked at get caught up in the "one-upmanship" out trying to outdo the other techs buy buying tool after tool. One guy bought a $ 20,000.00 tool box from SnapOn (EMPTY TOOLBOX) and all the other guys were drooling. It is very seductive and you have to keep your wits about you.
Don
I agree with sticking to pro-quality tools,the guarantee can't be beat. Just don't go nuts trying to get it all at once off the tool truck. Check the yard sales,flea markets,classified ads and as Don said,pawn shops,you can end up with the good stuff for 10 cents on the dollar. There will be plenty of special items you have to get off the truck,save your money till then. Hank
I once got some brand new Klein (popular with electricians) pliers, diagonal cutters and allen wrenches for dirt cheap at a yard sale. lady said they weren't as good as the craftsman so would sell them to me for less! HA! My tool bags for electrical are all klein, I shudder thinking about how much those suckers cost retail.
flea markets can be good too. saw a big crescent adjustable wrench one time for a few bucks, didn't buy it cause didn't need it. in retrospect....
Red
Snap-On is a distributor, NOT a manufacturer, all they do is sell. Danaher makes the tools for Snap-On, MAC, Matco, Craftsman Professional and NAPA. The only difference is finish and name. Blue Point, Evercraft and Craftsman are a second line. Not as slim, professionals don't want a bulky tool to get into tight spots. Finish is not as nice, but same lifetime warranty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
I was not meaning that snap on tools were craftsman rejects in a "bad way". Craftsman and others that might have a small blemish get taken down to the slim line "snap on" brand tools....
Being a hobbiest, I don't nessarily need proquality tools, for the most part Craftsman are fine with me. However, I do see how someone who did it day in day out would want tools that feel better in your hand and are made to be slimmer. This week when we pulled the headers back off of my Kids T I had to go get a MAC 3/8 wrench off of my pegboard because the Craftsman one we too thick and wouldn't slip over the bolts because of them being so close to the header tubes. The MAC went right on.
Don
I got the above statement from google as I am sure you did. Do they manufacture the tools , as in pouring steel and such? Or were they sanding down tools that were all ready made else where?:confused:
My info could be dated.... I'll let it go ,dont have time**) :)
I'm at the point that I just cannot justify paying the price for Snap-on tools any longer now that I'm not doing much mech work for anyone but me so am "settling" for lesser tools but being selective - made in the US is a must.
Here's about $1.98 worth of some of my well used Snap-on hoard of tools
I have a link somewhere that talks about who makes what. for instance Proto is same manufacturer as stanley, just a higher grade steel and heat treat due to the industry they are targeted at. Snap-on makes their own hand tools, and just cause I know how stubborn people can be, I just called them on the phone and confirmed. they use a different steel recipe and heat treat than crafstman, thus the thinner profile for same strength (that's from me, not the guy on the phone at snapon).
by the way, I ran the sanded down craftsman reject past the guy, yeah, he was laughing. I probably made his day. :D
I am guessing cornwell, who has been around for a long time, doesn't have much presence in my area, I have never seen a truck here, only north on the I5 corridor somewhere. but they are great people. I bought a complete 3/8" drive set off of ebay, missing the 10mm socket (replaced with taiwanese crap) I tried to get ahold of local distributor and couldn't. I called the company and explained, they sent me one in the mail no charge.
Craftsman are fine for home mechanics, I have a bunch. I think as a professional you really do need to be able to have them replaced without leaving work.
Red
have always found snap-on to be over-priced i stick with matco
my favorite tool! :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
I'm not a dog, I don't chase trucks!
I have plenty of Snap-on, Craftsman, a few Matco, I'm a mile and a half to Sears for 40 years, it always there, and I don't like the tool guys coming by and trying to get people to buy things they can't afford, seen it to many times. Ask your tool driver, he probably has a set of tools he's trying to get rid of, that someone bought and can't pay for.
Pat
I agree here...buy only what you can afford. Most trucks offer a line of credit to finance their tools and boxes, BEWARE. As is stated above there are many "repos" available for a reason. It is very easy to get in over your head if you don't keep your wits about you. When I was in the fab shops I made it a rule that if I had to borrow it more than about 3 times then it was something that I could use, but I didn't need it until I managed to put back enough to buy it outright. It is really complicating if you decide to leave an employer when you still owe the tool guy money.............Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe
Lowe's carries a tool line called KOBALT and I hear they are made by snapon. Dunno if that is true, but they look nice and I think they are priced quite competetively compared to craftsman. My brother in law is a bonafide wrench, and he swears that S/K makes the best ratchets hands down. I happen to have an S/K and when I reach for the cheater bar I make sure the S/K is on the recieving end, not the craftsman.
Speaking of craftsman, the finish quality of their tools has really gone down in the last ten years or so. I REALLY hate the anodized numbering on their sockets. Expose them to anything corrosive whatsoever and the numbers are gone forever. A few years ago, the wife bought me a small craftsman screwdriver set ( or some such set ) and they actually made her pay extra for the guarantee! Boy was I pissed! Told her to go and get a refund on the 'guarantee', and if they gave her any slack about it she would just return the whole set. Nearly swore off craftsman after that, but hey.. I have both a craftsman red, and wrinke brown finish tool box so what the hey. Their ratchets are definiely crap. I've had several work poorly straight out of the box, so to speak. Never had a problem with sockets or wrenches.
For screwdrivers, Klein do seem to hold up better.
You will have need for the occasional crimp... the best crimpers I have ever used are LOBSTER. Awesome crimpers, simply wonderful.
No craftsman is complete without a LEATHERMAN hanging on his belt. I currently have a leatherman CORE , which I believe is the replacement for the SUPERTOOL. Nice tool: stainless steel, quick release for the blades, but the design does pinch the hand a bit if you bear down on the pliers hard.
I think I can sum it up as such: your tools don't need to have one particular brand name. some brand names are better than others, such as Klein screwdrivers, strippers and cutters, S/K ratchets, etc.
It is nice to have the expensive tools, but who are you really trying to impress?
Where in the heck do you come up with this stuff??? I've been through a couple of the plants where some of the Snap-on stuff is made!!!! Trust me, Napa and Craftsman tools are not near the quality of Snap-on and Matco.... I've been using them everyday for many, many years....Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver
This is from the Snap-on site..... I guess you better tell them to stop manufacturing....
Company Profile
Snap-on Incorporated is a leading global innovator, manufacturer and marketer of tools, diagnostics and equipment solutions for professional users. Product lines include hand and power tools, tool storage, diagnostics software, information and management systems, shop equipment and other solutions for vehicle manufacturers, dealerships and repair centers, as well as customers in industry, government, agriculture and construction. Products are sold through its franchisees, company-direct sales and distributor channels, as well as over the Internet. Founded in 1920, Snap-on is a $2.5 billion, S&P 500 company headquartered in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Mission
The most valued productivity solutions in the world.
Address
Snap-on Incorporated
P.O. Box 1410
Kenosha, WI 53141-1410, U.S.A.
262-656-5200
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver
No kidding!!! Snap-on has been making hand and power tools for many, many years. Nothing new here. I went through the Kenosha, Wi. plant 20+ years ago and watched the manufacturing process.....
Yup, usually from some stupid kid who bought $15,000.00 worth of tools while he was going to the Vo-Tech school that Daddy paid for, then when he got out of school and actually got a job turning wrenches he discovered it was way too hard of work!!!! Never had a tool truck guy hold a gun to my head and force me to buy anything!!!! Same thing as saying it's Citi-Banks fault when some idiot runs up $20,000.00 worth of debt on his credit card then discovers he can't pay the bill?????Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiTCoupe
I have no idea where you guys are buying your tools at, but I've had the same Snap-on Dealer calling on me for 25 years. He's never forced me to buy a thing, but has always gone out of his way to get me just what I need for specialized tools and never given me a moments grief about replacing broken or defective tools. Better know exactly what you need when you go to Sears and by the Craftsman stuff cuz it's a cinch the brainless twit at the cash register is totally clueless on offering any sort of good advice!!!!!
Two things: Craftsman tools of today are NOT the same quality they were in past years. I have some old craftsman sockets, rachets, wrenches, etc, and they are all steel and still look and work great. The replacement sockets and such that I have bought in recent years look and feel differently, and the chrome plating chips easier (look at the ends of your sockets where they go on the nuts.....they chip right there) They are also not as smooth to the touch.
Secondly, Kobalt tools seem to be pretty good. We have been buying some of them since Lowes is a stones throw from our shop and open till 9. The quality seems to be pretty good.
I also like Gearwrench products. Their racheting tap and die set is the best thing since sliced bread. For the first time in my life I can tap a straight hole. :D
See picture of it below. Buy yourself one, you'll love it.
Don
A lot of Snap on power tools are now made by diffrent companies they have boughten / bought into over the years ( somthing like 50 companies now ). MostQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Air tools are IR's with fancy grips.
but ALL snap on hand tools are made by snap on themselves. I have a friend that is a Snap On distributor:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
What chew talkin' bout Willis?? :LOL:
Don
Guess I'll stick to using a thread chaser on existing threads....Running a tap through tends to remove a bit of metal from the threads... I've got holders for my taps that are 3/8" drive and use a ratchet....
I SAID IN MY FIRST POST "I WAS NOT SURE BUT REMEBERED HEARING THEY WERE REJECTS" THIS WAS 15 YEARS OR SO AGO AND IT LOOKS LIKE I GOT THE NAMES MIXED UP, EXCUSE THE F OUT OF ME!!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Now, I am no expert on turning wrenches, I dont turn them day in and day out and dont have the money or need for snap on.The different brands are not etched in my brain like yours. If what I keep finding on google is correct it was another top name brand that I heard about 15 years ago, I think they ride around in a truck too. Anyways here a little something I read thought it might be useful.Dont know how true it is some engineer claimed the writing but it pretty much the same story I kept finding:LOL:
"Here's something that you might be interested in:
Someone wrote [in part]:
... but I never could figure out who makes the [Craftsman] hand tools.
To which someone else replied:
I'm not the final word on tools by any means, but since I work in the business, I've learned a little bit about it. Okay, here's more than you ever wanted to know.
Lowes now (as of earlier this year) is selling a line of Mechanics Tools called Kobalt which is made by Snap-On. They are good tools.
Home Depot's Husky brand is made by Stanley Mechanics Tools, a division of the Stanley Works. Husky are also good tools and have a good lifetime warranty (they'll even replace your broken Craftsman with an equivalent Husky).
Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas, Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.
Stanley also owns MAC Tools and manufactures MAC tools in the same plants. Now here's the kicker: MAC Tools, Proto Tools (a very expensive industrial brand), Husky Tools, and, (prior to five or so years ago) Craftsman Tools are all made from the same forgings in the same plants. Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and industrial customers (including General Motors).
There are three MAJOR players in the USA mechanics tool business: Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Stanley and Danaher (almost identical in sales revenue at about $28 billion each) are the biggest followed by Snap-On. Each of these three manufacture and sell tools under a variety of brands (there are many other brands that Stanley makes that I haven't even named). The quality between these three manufacturers is roughly the same. I know its a bit of a let-down to hear that, but its a simple fact.
There are a hand full of other minor players (Vermont American, etc) and an endless list of Taiwanese import tool companies (some of which Stanley own as well as Danaher to serve the lower end consumer import brands at WalMart, etc). How do I know all of this? I work for Stanley Mechanics Tools, specifically with the Proto Industrial brand. I personally do not think that MAC, MatCo, or Snap-On branded tools are worth the extra markup since they use the same forgings and manufacturing processes that make Husky and Kobalt and pre-1994 Craftsman. Where you need to pay attention are things like ratchets and torque wrenches. There are different specifications of ratchets and you do pay for the difference. Some mechanics require a finer, more precise ratcheting mechanism than guys like me who just bang around in the garage on the weekends.
By the way, Metwrench is basically considered a "gimick" infomercial tool brand that is not considered as a serious competitor to Danaher, Snap-On, or Stanley. Then again, IBM once didn't see Microsoft as a serious force in the personal computer business. Hmmmm....
Then there was this discourse on FACOM brand tools:
> FACOM has been around forever. French company, says "American" in the name
> though I forget the whole acronym.
FACOM is Franco-Americaine de Construction d'Outillage Mecanique. French for "French-American Mechanical Tool Manufacturing". Got points in my french class for that.
> It's now one of the largest tool conglomerates in Europe.
>
> SK, I think, is an American company that recently has had a large part of
> its stock purchased by FACOM.
FACOM owns S-K outright. You'll notice (if you look through the catalogs from preceeding years) that the tools are becoming more and more alike. The S-K "pro" screwdrivers are now FACOM ergotwist screwdrivers. The "tuff1" ratchets are S-K pro ratchet handles avec FACOM innards. FACOM's ratcheting flare wrench now has S-K stamped on the side of it. I don't like it because we could get FACOM tools from S-K dealers for over 10 years, but now they're getting more and more reluctant to give us FACOM stuff, they'd rather sell S-K stuff. Which is why you get S-K catalogs instead of FACOM. If you specifically request (demand) a FACOM catalog, you get their _american_ catalog, which is abbreviated, along with a note to contact Griot's Garage. I've asked a French friend to get me a French market FACOM catalog, as they have all the good stuff that hasn't yet been absorbed into the S-K line. Ultimate Garage is a FACOM dealer as well as Griots, and I've been told (by richard?) they've got a catalog, dunno if it's FACOM's, but I'll order something and find out.
I was also wondering what the deal was with the S-K foundry? Presumably they still make some stuff stateside? No? I know there are others not mentioned, Cornwell has a foundry in Ohio, I think?
I'd kinda doubt that Williams uses the _exact_ same dies for Koalt and Snap-On. I compared the Kobalt combo wrench to one of my Snap-Ons, and they aren't the same. The Kobalt handle is pretty much rectangular in cross-section, and really does hurt your hand when you pull hard. The Snap-On is more rounded. As well, the Kobalt is visibly looser on the fastener. Maybe these are Snap-On rejects? Can't explain the handle differences, though. The breaker bars seem to share the same grip, though, it just seems the kobalt doesn't have those nifty machined indentations at the base.
I know Stanley owns Mac and Blackhawk (didn't know about Husky), but the Blackhawk stuff doesn't seem similar to the Mac stuff. These look awfully different to be from the same dies, shape wise. So the price difference is different steel in the better tools? Surely they can't be charging Mac prices for better plated Blackhawk stuff?
> FACOM also owns (large parts of) USAG (Italian?) and Beissbarth...
didn't know this. I'd like to find some USAG tools, just to try them "
Well, Snap-on makes their own hand tools, lots of them in Kenosha, Wi.... Don't know about the others, mainly cuz I bought good hand tools the first time and have never seen a reason to change... I've got some Craftsman stuff around, mostly gifts from others so kind of obliged to keep them. I've bought a ton of Snap-on and Matco since I started, mainly cuz of the service provided by the tool trucks. I consider it as all part of the value of the tools. Service and trust sometimes gets a little lost in searching the malls, stores, and net for just the best price......
My latest trip to Sears about 2 weeks ago - and yes, I do have some Crapsman tools and do use them occasionally. I keep a ratchet in my metric box and a "spare" for when I can't find my S-K (I really dislike Snap-on ratchets)
Standard Ratchet - hold your hand over the reversing lever in a tight spot. The @#$$ POS goes into a neutral position. Adios knuckles - mine just healed. I got their 'best' for my "spare" and their cheapest for my metric box. Both seem better then their standard.
13/16 Combo wrench - after digging a piece of chrome out of my palm, retrieving the wrench from the middle of the yard where it landed, got a pretty new one - but it is shaped a bit different and doesn't appear to have the same chrome shedding sharp edges.
As far as chrome shedding - uhhhh - these are 2 of my Snap-ons, a 13/16 and 7/8. Others are similar or worse. I tried to exchange them with a local Snap-on truck dealer. His answer to me was - "I don't know who the f*** you are and where you bought them - EBay probably". He was right - he didn't know me and the Snap-on dealer I purchased them from died about 15 years ago, and he even knew that guys name. So, I keep them and use carefully. Not worth the grief.
I had the same experience with a SnapOn dealer. I had a 3/8 rachet that would slip when tightening a bolt, something worn inside. So I tracked down a SnapOn truck in the industrial area and the SnapOn guy told me he would not replace it. WHAT??? I THOUGHT SNAPON HAD A LIFETIME WARRANTY???????? After some arguing on my part he agreed to put a kit inside to fix it. He did, but it still slipped, so I tossed it out so I wouldn't be tempted to use it and bust my knuckles.
Conversely, I have never had Sears turn me away on any tool, even ones I have broken through overuse.
Don
a cresent wrench , a screw driver , a ball pen hammer , a chisle and a pair of vise grips
what the heck more does one need.. all bought for 10 bucks at wal-mart:D
I wish there was a cornwell guy around, I love the cornwell ratchet, well, for the most part (will try and put a pic up later) the handle is great when you are full gripping it. the lower edge is a bit too sharp for my liking if you're only partway on the handle. but the finish is great and it has fine ratcheting gears. some of the other ratchets have big gears and it's a pain in a tight spot since you only get 2 or 3 clicks with each stroke.
I have older craftsman stuff, just gave my socket set to my bro. when i got the cornwell, that set is at least 30 years old, no problems with them.
damnit, now you guys are making me want to get on the web and get some more used tools. I need another set of metric combo wrenches.
Red
Sorry to hear you guys don't have a good dealer.
Denny,Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
I can assure you that those 2 wrenches, I pictured are NOT Blue Points. I do have some Blue Points and they are shedding chrome as well.
The p/n shown are OEX-26 and 28, tho the new numbers are SOEX-26 & 28
I have the OEX (or SOEX set, depending on when bought) from 1/4" to 1.062 complete in the long version and many of the short version as well. And if I want to go smaller, I get out my Snap-on ignition set.
I hear about a lot of complaints about snap on ratchets, my auto teacherQuote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
even warned me about them, because they slip.
they have a fine tooth gear set which is really smooth compared to others but
is weaker, because there isn't much for the ratchet stops to catch on. what this means is the $5 walmart special ratchet, COULD have a stronger gear set. I don't know because I have never had the chance to test a snap on ratchet like that. I'v broken 2 of the $5 cheepo's but I tried to use them w/ a 6' pipe as a breaker bar to get a lugnut loose, so they were a ubused. the lugnut was stuck bad.
I seriously doubt the $5.00 special would have a stronger gear set. The direction switch on the top of a ratchet is both good and bad. Just got one of the fine tooth long handled ratchet from Snap-on a couple weeks ago. It has the big handle on it, works great for us geezers with hands that operate at bit less then perfect!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt167
Next time Matt, use a breaker bar or jump up to a 1/2 drive set up and a longer breaker bar.... Cheater bars usually cause more damage then they could ever fix!!!! A bit of PB Blaster sprayed on the lugs and either an impact wrench or a long 1/2" breaker bar and a bit of patience would have got the lug off just fine!!!!
It would be nice if the dealers were not in buisnuess w/ themselves ( the dealer owns the truck and stuff, gets profits directly ), then they wouldn't be so worried about profit margins. if Snap on corporation owned the trucks and had the dealers as employees and not as there own seperate company, giving out new tools on warranty wouldn't have an adverse effect on there income.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Snap on industrial IS tied directly to Snap on, those trucks are big rigs and don't make regular stops at shops ect, but you can often find them at Votechs and collages