Question about model A seat

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Originally posted by brianrupnow
Don----in regards to your "potty holes"----I have built seats using this technique, and it really helps with the comfort factor in a car with home-made seats. My first 2 rods that I built were either chopped, channeled, or both. In a coupe, to avoid the "bent neck syndrome" and in a roadster to avoid the "head sticking above windshield" syndrome, I has to make the seat bases extremely low, using high density foam and 3/4" plywood, which sat right flat on the floor. If you just use foam and plywood, after the first 10 miles of riding the high density foam "solids out", that is to say there is no farther compressibility in it. Every road shock is then transmitted directly through the plywood to the end of your spine, and it gets uncomfortable darn fast.Brian Rupnow

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I think a lot of it has to do with the foam you use.
The upholstery shop guy who did the upholstery and foam in my 32 used a very firm foam on the bottom and a medium density foam for the rest.
The foam sandwich rests directly on the plywood and there is no Potty Hole (PH) in my 32.
42,000 miles of driving and the seat is still very comfortable.
Hard bottom out type bumps when driving aren't a problem either.

Regardless, I do think the PH method has a lot of merit.
In my case a finished PH could be added by sawing a hole in the plywood - use a shortened sabre saw blade so you don't tear up the foam.
Make a 3/4" thick plywood ring that fits around the PH.
Make a 3/4" plywood closed base to go under the ring.

That would give you 1 1/2" for additional foam.
If you needed more foam you could stack another 3/4" plywood ring in there.

A little sanding to round off the sharp edges.

Cut a piece of foam to fit the hole within the ring.

Use sheet metal screws and glue to retain the plywood PH.

Granted, you could add the webbing etc. after cutting the requisite PH, but in my case the wiring et al is under the seat and I want to be sure the upholstery/foam doesn't sink down and contact the wiring.
The plywood PH makes for a positive stop.

I've found out a little more information about Caravan seats - and others - after posting the pic of the sectioned Caravan seat above.

There are two different seats in the Caravans and both come in the same vehicle.
When the pics above were posted the poster - a smart guy - described the sectioned seat as a Caravan middle seat.

It is and it isn't and here's why.
Caravans have a rear seat that's a three passenger seat.
The 3-pass seat is what you see after sectioning and installation in the A coupe in the above pic.
Caravans also have a middle seat that is a two passenger seat.

Here's where the confusion is, Caravan owners in many cases will remove the middle two passenger seat, store it away and move the three passenger rear seat into the receptacles provided.
The left side of the 3-pass fits the same as the 2-pass seat and the wider right side of the 3-pass seat locks into a different floor receptacle - that sits a ways to the right.
The alternate use receptacle is covered with an oval plastic plug.
Pull the plug and place it in the 2-pass seat hole.
The 3-pass seat is then installed in the middle.

This is where guys are getting the overly wide seat (the 3-pass) and describing it as the middle seat because for all practical purposes that's where they found it and that's what it is.

What the Caravan owners get out of the deal is a six passenger vehicle with lots more luggage room.

If you get a genuine 2-pass Caravan seat they fit the cockpit of a 31 A roadster with no problem other than making adequate mounts.

Here's a pic of a 2-pass seat in my 31 on 32 rails roadster.

As you can see the 2-pass Caravan seat is a drop-in in the 31 A roadster.
The folding arm-rests can remain.
The rests are easily removable by unzipping the zipper, pulling back the upholstery and removing one bolt.
Not sure if I'm going to retain the rests or not.
A rest on the quarter panel just behind the door may be a better set-up.
I'll decide on that later.

The seat frame I have set up for the car is welded 1" square tubing bolted to the 'hat' channels that reinforce the A bodies.
It does have a series of 7/16" holes that allow manual adjustment fore and aft.
(Real manual since the removal of four bolts are required to move the seat.)
Since I'm the only one that drives the car that should work for me and if Sweetie drives it I have a 4" thick firm foam back pad upholstered to match the 32 and she can use that.

Regardless, I'm thinking of finding a low set of seat tracks and making the seat manually adjustable.
I've also been entertaining thoughts of finding a small car power seat mechanism just for the heck of it.
Solving an engineering challenge is part of the fun for me.

The Caravan middle seat is very comfortable.
Especially with the amount of lean-back it has - which is similar to the stock ChryCo ergonomics.
I have to admit it's looking to be more comfortable than my 32's seats that have a more upright back.
The 32 is comfortable and we can spend all day in it with no problems, but I'm looking forward to the 31's seat.


The Caravan is not the only potential seat donor.
Ford vans, the Aerostar I believe it is and probably the Windstar have a similar seating situation.
A friend who's doing a 34 Ford pickup got an Aerostar 2-pass seat and it drops into the pickup cab with no problems.
Nice part is, it has adjustable seat tracks and is probably just as comfortable as the Caravan seat.
The back folds forward I believe and the only fly in the ointment is that the seat back needs to be a little thinner to gain leg room in the overly short pickup cab.
Narrowing the seat back is on the agenda.

More than likely GM vans have a similar 2-pass, 3-pass seat setup.

You'll note the seat belt buckles remain with the Caravan seat.
It has a very sturdy anchor set-up for the middle belts.
Even so, a reinforcing seat to frame device will be added to the 31.

The Caravans outer seat belts also bolt to the seat frame.
Problem here is, once you strip off the Caravan's seat round tubing frame off so you can get the seat down where it belongs you have to saw the rear seat vertical bracket part-way off so the rear of the seat can go down as far as possible.
Not a problem with the seat belts, the way they're made a simple bracket makes mounting them in a reinforced body sheet metal area easy and the belts can retain the factory retractors and be out of the way for entry and exit.

If you do some scrounging you can get a good set of seat belts in the color you want.

The seat in the 31 is out of a mid-90's Caravan.

Leg room with this seat is excellent.
Note that the seat back is under the rear rail of the cockpit and there is a little more room left to go back.

In the fwiw dept, I'm 6' tall and have a 32" inseam so legroom can be critical.
The seat placed where you see it puts my eyes maybe an inch lower than the center of the chopped (2") windshield.

If you're lucky enough to find a seat with the right color and good upholstery you can use it as is for quite a while.
The upholstery in my seat is in pretty good condition so it'll be run as-is until the upholstery check comes in.

You might get lucky on price as well.
I paid $40. for my seat and that struck me as a very fair price.

C9x, thanks for clearing up the difference between the 2 and 3 passenger Caravan seats. The 2-pass seat sure looks nice and I will look around locally for such a seat. I like the way the back is short enough to fit under the lip of the rear deck. Brian, thanks for the info on the plywood version. If I ever get my sweetie in the car a hard seat would be unbearable to her with some back problems already so I will have to at least use the "potty holes" if I use plywood unless I can find one of the 2-pass. Caravan seats. I have measured the back seat in new Jeeps and the width is OK but the backrest is a little taller than what the Caravan seat looks like in the pictures C9x posted. Allowing for the fact that I hope to put a flat gas tank under the seat the Caravan seat also looks to be fairly thin vertically leaving space for a tank. C9x, can you tell me how many inches the front bottom lip of the Caravan seat is from the floor? If my tank is 5" tall (thick) the bottom edge of the seat would have to be about 8-10" above the floor in front to allow space for a tank under the seat and proper lean back. Thanks for the pictures.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Originally posted by Don Shillady
C9x, can you tell me how many inches the front bottom lip of the Caravan seat is from the floor? If my tank is 5" tall (thick) the bottom edge of the seat would have to be about 8-10" above the floor in front to allow space for a tank under the seat and proper lean back. Thanks for the pictures.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Right now, the front bottom lip of the seat measures 5 1/4" from the floor pan proper.
Meaning that it's not measure from the 'hat' channel the body mounts bolt to.
The back is 2 3/4" from the floor pan.

The tilt-back with that is about right.

My wife has back problems as well.
Fwiw - the 32's plywood seat with it's fairly vertical back works well for her - mainly because she has way better posture than I do.
The vertical back is workable for me cuz I'm hanging on to the steering wheel.
Doing the passenger bit for me isn't too bad when Sweetie wants to drive, but one of my friends who has an intermittent bad back
complains after spending an hour or two in the 32.
He'd like some more tilt and some more lift under his knees, but he's out of luck there.
The 32 works for Sweetie and I so it stays as is.

Even so the 31 on 32 rails roadster with the Caravan seat looks like it will be more comfortable for me and it should work ok for Sweetie.
The ChryCo engineers did a good job ergonomically speaking and I'm looking forward to a comfortable ride once the 31 is up and running.

Making a rough estimate, it looks like an underseat tank will hold 9 gallons max and probably only 8 gallons.

I thought at one time about making a baffled, flat tank for the trunk floor in the 32.
With five baffles instead of the usual three and using 16 gage sheet metal - or maybe stainless - you could use the tank top as the base of a rumble seat.
Fuel capacities there would run between 16 and 22 gallons depending on how wide you went.
It wouldn't be too difficult to round off the upper front edge and/or shape the tank so that the bottom cushion didn't have to be too thick.

For some more photos and info on the Caravan seat along with some input from others go here:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=62447

Don, you may want to look at a Mazda 929 about 89 to 95.

One of the guys on the HAMB board emailed me with some info about them.
He used em in a 57 Chevy, but they look very usable in a roadster.
Plus, they have power tracks which your wife may like and for that matter you may like them too.

You can find pics of the Mazda seats on Google by searching for the abovementioned cars.

I have a photo of some aftermarket already upholstered bucket seats in a 29 on 32 rails if you'd like to see it.

Not too expensive all things considered.

C9x, thanks for the info and pictures. I went to one of those mass parts recycling places today and looked at some seats. I saw one (gray) Caravan seat priced at $200 but it had a bunch of stuff underneath which would conflict with a tank and then I looked a nice tan leatherette seat from ???? which measured 46 1/2" but when I got back to the roadster I realized the maximum width to my steel tubing framework is 43". I calculate about 14 gallons from a 36"x18"x5" rectangular tank. Tomorrow I will check out another recycling junk yard and see what I can find, but if that turns up nothing useable I will go back to the plywood potty hole idea. Thanks for your discussions of seat comfort.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Hey Don---a gas tank under the seat??? Ain't that kinda like setting on a bomb?

Brian, the guy at Rock Valley told me there were some Chevy pickups in the late '30s that had the gas tank under the front seat. It's less likely to be hit than a '32 style tank or putting the kids seat in the rumble on top of another tank. I had originally planned to make use of the flat Brookville frame in the back but the body came set up for the stock arched spring with a large hump in the rumble floor. Maybe I should cut out the rear floor and put in a flat piece of something and then put the tank in the rumble as a seat base? Well I'm still considering options. Anybody else have comments pro/con on a tank under the front seat?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don---I would strongly advise that you cut out the rear floor where the hump is, and glass in a peice of flat 3/4" plywood. Put the tank in the rear of the roadster and glass in a 3/4" bulkhead between the passenger cockpit area and the rear rumble seat/trunk area. Cut the plywood bulkhead so that it is about 1/2" away from the actual fiberglass body of the car on the sides and the top, so as to avoid creating "shadows" on the outside of the glass body. Then use fiberglass matt to bridge the gap between body and plywood on both sides of the plywood all the way around, (also between plywood and floor). Let the matt overlap onto the plywood and onto the body about 2 1/2" to 3". Kids riding in the rumble seat will only be an occasional thing, but you will be riding on that front seat every time the car is driven.

$200. for a seat . . . ouch.

If you go to the site mentioned you'll see that Ford and maybe GM have some good middle seat candidates.

Brian is right on the money with his advice about making a 'shadow' if you tie a glass bulkhead to a glass body with glass.
It's difficult and darned near impossible to get the shadow out even with a lot of blocking and filling.


Far as tanks go, have you given any thought to a pair of tanks inside the frame in front of the rear axle?

Even with a four-link setup in there there's room for a pair of 6-8 gallon tanks.
The extra two gallons would come from a small nose extension that goes forward of the four-links crossmember.

I've seen this done on roadsters before and it's a nice set-up.

Lots of ways to connect the tanks, selector, check valves, individual pumps etc.

A Y'd filler up top would do it for gassing up.

I'm planning on making a pair of these for my 31 on 32 rails roadster.

I have a pic of the Caravan seat before removing the tubng frame if you'd like to see that.
Regardless, the frame has to come out and another one made to get the seat down to proper roadster height.

Brian, that's a good idea. In addition I learned about how the stock rumble seat handles the drip rail problem. Apparently the Brookville steel body has a vertical "fin" or gutter edge about 3" high just inside the rear area which sticks up and just clears the bottom edge of the deck lid when it swings up and the bottom edge goes down. The barrier forms a gutter wall so that water running off the deck lid goes down behind this wall into the space between it and the inside of the rear panel. Then a series of holes drilled in the bottom of the gutter allow the water to drain out. Let me think about it more and I suppose I could get a tank fabricated out of stainless steel that will go back to this gutter wall and also form the base of the rumble seat. That will allow use of a caravan seat with a lot of springs and stuff under the seat as well as a hidden space for tools and the usual glove compartment junk. So now I guess I need to look for a caravan seat in earnest. I have 'glasssed two homemade boats before with some success and I hope I have made my learning errors with fiberglass already so I do not mess up my '29 body.

C9x, I checked out the HAMB site you mentioned and I was very interested in how you mounted the battery box on your '32. Maybe I could do that on my '29 but boy oh boy the situation with the muffler is tight. I am surprised you do not have a problem with exhaust heat against the battery but even more amazed that you got itall tucked in that tight space. Any further comments about that battery box would be helpful. I suppose it would be best to put the box in first and then adjust the length of the header pipe to the muffler so it just clears the battery box. Conclusion: put in the battery box BEFORE the muffler?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Originally posted by brianrupnow
Hey Don---a gas tank under the seat??? Ain't that kinda like setting on a bomb?

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Hey, GM/CHEV trucks mounted the gas tank BEHIND the drivers seat for years!!

That doesn't mean it was a good idea!!!

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Originally posted by Digger_Dave
Hey, GM/CHEV trucks mounted the gas tank BEHIND the drivers seat for years!!

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So did Ford and it still wasn't a good idea.

:(