chopped pickup question

hello everyone...this is my first post but i've been browsing around this forum for awhile. i recently became very interested in building a "rat rod" i like the idea of using what's available to build a hot rod and each one is different. i also like the look of them. most of the ones i've seen are chopped so i have a few questions. 1) does anyone have pics of unchopped rat rod pickups(i would like to see any pictures of rat rods though)? 2) how many inches is a good chop? 3) is there any way you don't have to use more than 1 cab to chop? thanks for any info

What year???

Don

mmm...i'm not sure yet lol i've been looking and just have to get one. i know it'll be late 30's or early 40's...one of the smaller cabs but it wont be so old that the front posts are straight. something to the likes of a 46 ford...that cab style.

We'll it's a '39 Dodge, not a Ford, but here is the one I'm building.

Don

Jeremy: Here are the pictures I promised you in our PM's. I can't figure out how to post to them, so here they are here. The first picture is off the stock height truck before chopping. We have marked off the area with tape where we will cut 5 inches out in the rear and 3 and 1/2 in the windshield. The second picture is after we cut the top off for the first time.

Before you cut, be sure to brace the body well as it will become misaligned and move as soon as the top is gone.

The third picture is more of the cutting work being done.

Once you have a reasonably close cut made and have removed the desired amount, you can start trial fitting the top back on. This will tell you how much you have to finese the metal to get it to match back up.


Those clamps you are seeing in the picture are holding the separated panels in somewhat of temporary alignment to let us see where we are and what we needed to do.

To get the windshield to lay back we removed the dash and pie cut the bottom and top of the windshield and laid it back to meet the top. I like the looks of a slanted chop more than a straighter windshield. Just a personal preference.

To move metal around, you have to use whatever you can, like portapowers, and even load binding straps. Here we are pulling the windshield into alignment as it was crooked slightly.

The second picture is after the pie cuts were welded up.

The 3rd picture shows the top after it had been on and off about 20 times, starting to fit better. We would trim a hair off and try it again until we got a tight joint all the way around.

And these 3 pictures show the top almost done and starting to fit pretty well.

We still have the doors to do, but those are a piece of cake compared to the top.

The older Chevy you are talking about should be much easier, as it is more square. Hope these help.

Don

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...atBeach004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...hstacks010.jpg

hey guys thanks for your pictures and all

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Originally Posted by jeremy_e87

mmm...i'm not sure yet lol i've been looking and just have to get one. i know it'll be late 30's or early 40's...one of the smaller cabs but it wont be so old that the front posts are straight. something to the likes of a 46 ford...that cab style.

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If you do decide on a 46 ford pickup, I have a couple extra cabs left over. A late 70s or early 80s chevy pickup chassis is just a hair narrower, and with a few shims works quite well. For the top, I would split the top front to back in the center, and then side to side, making for quarters. Chop the posts, and weld them bach together. Then fill the center of the top in. This way allows you to bring the top down straight, or put a slight rake to it. Remember to attach braces while you do this, because the cab will try to spread out when you remove the top

Why do you take more out of the rear of the cab than the front? Wouldn't that make the cab tilt to the rear?
If you cut the cab side to side and front to rear how hard is it to get lined up after. I seen in the pics that the roof on that truck lined up well,,is it absolutely necessary to cut it front to rear?

Before you do a lot of cutting, make some black and white copies of a picture of your project and chop it with a scissors and scotch tape, first.....

I've been trying to respond to Truckensteins question, but have been either getting "service unavailable" or "p something is filled up" I just got it now again, but then it went through. Forum server must be on Holiday. :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:


Anyway, why did we chop more out of the rear than the front? It is because we chose to slant the windshield back to meet the now shorter portion of remaining top. If we had added a filler piece to the top to make it long enough to reach the old position, we could have simply whacked an even 5 inch slice all around, and it would have met up. But, by slanting the posts back, we needed the extra metal left in the posts to bridge that gap. It saved us from having to patch in another piece of steel.

I know that is not totally clear, but in essence, we did chop an even 5 inches out of the top all the way around. However, when you slant the windshield back, you lose some of the height of that post (just imagine if you take an upright post and start leaning it on an angle, it is less tall than it was standing straight up). I may have confused you by saying we chopped 5 out of the rear and less out of the front. The chop is actually a consistant 5 inches, but we just left more metal in the posts to make up for what we lost leaning them back.

I know I rambled in that explanation, but it is hard to explain. Here are some shots of the chop, look at the side picture, and envision what would happen when the posts get laid back. If we had cut 5 inches out of them, we would have come up short on metal to meet up.

Hope this helps clear this up.


Don

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If you cut the cab side to side and front to rear how hard is it to get lined up after.

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It would be very hard. I've never seen a reason to quarter a top in order to chop it - especially on an older vehicle, where the posts are nearly vertical.

Damn, Don---How many hotrods are you working on? I didn't even know that you had a truck!!!!

I'm a VERY sick man Brian. I have my current T, my '39 Dodge truck, my '27 that I want to resurrect someday, and there is this '30 cowl and doors that keep wanting me to join them with an extra Olds engine I have laying around. I need therapy.:o


Strange as that is, I am finding out something from being on this forum and some others. THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER SICK GUYS OUT THERE TOO. :3dSMILE: I see lots of guys posting that they have a project they are working on and 2 or more sitting in the wings. What is it with us? The oldest rule in hot rodding or car building is to never get involved with another car while you are doing one.

It would be interesting to see how many of us on here need to car pool with me to the Clinic. :LOL: :LOL:


Don

hey don you need to get back working on the truck. i like your truck. i would like to see it when done . the metal work looks very good

Thanks, this darned T project is just taking longer than I thought. I was actually nieve enough to think I could build both the truck and the T and have them done for Daytona this year. Boy was I wrong. But I do want to get back on the truck, and hopefully will have the T done in a couple more months. Now that Xmas is out of the way I plan on working on the T lots to get finished.

In fact, I think I will drag myself out of this comfortable chair and head over there right now. :D (darned Forums are so addicting and fun)


Don

Actually that explained it perfectaly (spelling). that 3rd picture down made it super clear, Now what I am seeing from that is that I can chop the top without having a second roof to graft in,,just by simply putting a lean on my posts, which is exactly what I wanted to do, and it also answers my next question about starting the framework for the floor,,,a few weeks ago i was kind of timid of starting a project like this,,,now I want to go start shoveling snow and get the body home

and I do understand the sickness thing, currently I am working on my 1966 Chevy II Nova, and I also have a 1963 Chevy II wagon and a 1979 CJ7 Jeep,,,I either need a bigger yard or a cure for my sickness

It's a 12 step program. You have to get 12 cars to qualify. :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:

You mentioned the floor you want to put in. Thought this picture might help. Last Xmas my Son surprised my by putting the entire subframe in the truck, without me knowing until it was done. Might be some ideas in here for you.


Don

I am likeing these pictures,,,now when you change the angle on the front windshield how much trouble does that cause for when you are getting the doors lined up?
Do you have any pics of the truck with the doors on it?

Doors aren't done yet. Our plan is to cut the window frames off and piece them back together to fit into the opening, sort of like a jigsaw puzzle. Dan did his '29 this way, and it was way easier in our opinion than doing the doors while in the car. It is real easy this way because the bottom of the doors stay the same, all you do is cut and fit the window frames to fit.

Don

ok,,,everything seems pretty straight forward so far, thinking to do a 4 inch chanel of the body and about a 4-5 inch chop of the top, I will likely have to take about an inch off the bottom of the doors because they are rusted bad and there is none to be found around.

Right now one of my problems is the frame, It is in good shape but it was cut about 4 feet after the back of the cab, and it is a very tall frame like something out of a 1 ton.

I want to keep the original looking frame with a solid front axle but have people saying that I could use a S-10 frame,,pull the motor back so my wheels stay out in front. But I am hating the idea of those ugly control arms especially if I am fenderless.

The one in the pics is a custom job,,,what did you use for a pattern or was it built to fit the truck?

It was built just to fit this truck. We blocked the cab up at the ride height we wanted it at, blocked the engine and transmission where they needed to be, rolled the rear axle and some tires into the position we wanted, mocked up the front axle at ride height, and then built a 2 x 4 wood frame to tie all of those things together. Once the wood one was built, we duplicated it in rectangular steel tubing.

Doing the wood routine first of all lets you make changes easily, and also gives you a pretty close example of what the finished rod will actually look like. Plus, 2 x 4's are cheap. :D

I am not a fan of modifying existing frames, like S 10's, because they just are not very pretty. They are made purposefully bulky, and don't have a good profile, IMO. And, as you pointed out, the stock IFS front end is not very attractive in a fenderless rod. We just find it easier to work with 2 x 3 or 2 x 4 rectangular tubing, and we always use 3/16 wall thickness. Some people feel this is overkill, but it makes a very strong frame, has nicer rolled corners than 1/8 inch wall, and gives you more thickness to drill and tap for minor attachments, like brake lines and wire looms. We still weld on some 3/8 plate sections where we attach critical items, like shocks, and tap the threads all the way through. I know this is overengineered, but nothing ever comes loose, either.

Here is what I mean about those plate sections.


Don

I was also thinking the same as you with the 3/16 wall tube, right now I have access to a 23 T-bucket frame jig, a 1930-32 frame jig and a jig for some jeep cj or yj frame,,,the jeep jig is good for one thing, the owner of it is not planning on building anymore so I can do anything I want to it so I was thinking that the 2x4 wood idea would be good for a starting point, but basically all the frame would be is two straight frame rails going back and then a kick up where the rearend is,

Does anybody know where the serial number would be on that 1941-42 Ford truck cab?,,I have looked all over it and cannot find it

Making any progress on the doors Don?,,,you have me very curious how those are going to go together

Mike

We won't even be touching another thing on the truck until the T is done, hopefully this spring. Doors will be down the list somewhat, as there are lots of other things to do first, lke floor, build a bed, steering, etc.


Don

i have a question is it better to chop the top with the doors still on the truck fit them in later ?

i have another im just starting in the rat rod community and have a lot to learn .....but i just bought a 41 ford pick up i have seen outhers do a 6" chop but hears my problem im 6 foot 5" tall will i fit in it after i chop any tall guys on here that has had that problem im going to get ride of the orig seat mount and run buckets ........

Best thing to do is get the door gap set correctly and get the latches working properly before you do anything. Then remove the doors and set them aside. Then thouroughly brace the inside of the cab and the door opening with welded in temporary bracing. Then chop the cab and reweld it. Then remove all the bracing. Then make the lower cut on the doortop and rehang the door. Then, hold the remaining peice of door-top up in correct position and check to make absolutely certain that the amount of chop you anticipated is going to be correct---then cut the remaining peice out of the vertical legs of the doortop, tack it into place with the door still hung and latched properly into place. then remove the door and finish the welding on the door.

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Originally Posted by ntudeepp

i have a question is it better to chop the top with the doors still on the truck fit them in later ?

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It's going to be tough to get stock height doors to close on a chopped top. Before I cut the door tops, I tack weld a brace between the door posts to maintian the door gap and alignment, then cut the door tops off, chop the top, and fit the top of the doors. Also, before I make the first cut in ANYTHING, I crossbrace and X brace the body shell so things don't move around when you start cutting. And, I have the frame bolted or otherwise fastened securely to the frame before cutting. Another method I have used to maintain the door gap when I chop is to use the correct thickness of washers in the door gap tack welded to the doors and the body shell, 2 on the front and 2 on the rear of the doors.

Excessive channeling does nothing but kill cab room. I would recomend just enough of a channel to get the bottom sill where you want it. If you need the overall cab height less then the channeling and a reasonable chop, then sectioning the car is another option....

There are proponents of both methods. We do them off, after bracing the body to hold it's shape. We feel it's easier to do the chop, then cut off the window frames and then fit them back in to match the new opening.

Others have said they like to do it with the doors on, so it just becomes a matter of what seems easiest to you. The way we do it allows you complete access to the inside of the car during the chop process, and is one reason we like it.

Don

thanks for all the info

Good to see that someone else is also building a 1941 ford, My plan is for mine I want to do a 5 inch channel if the frame into the body and a 3 inch top chop,,hoping it will give me the look I want.

Don't recall where I read it ( I'll link in, when I do ), but this one builders idea of chopping was to leave the doors ON, and only cut off & of course modify the window channel. Of course you knew this anyway,...JMTC,...but it made a-lot of sense as the door revel will stay constant..
- 41 -

I forgot to ask this before but does anybody know where I would find the serial number/I.D. tag on a 1941-1943 Ford P/U?

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I forgot to ask this before but does anybody know where I would find the serial number/I.D. tag on a 1941-1943 Ford P/U?

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Its suppose to be on the left side frame rail just ahead of the steering box. My frame was to rusted to see it, and the ones at the junk yards I looked at were hard to make out the whole number.
From what I learned was, back in the day they used the serial number off the motor which was suppose to be the same as on the frame, But I can't swear that to be true.

This cab and doors that I got was just that,,,a cab and doors,,,no frame or motor. So I guess the best thing for me to do is get ahold of motor vehicle and see how to go about geting some numbers for this thing unless somebody has a better idea