Thread: Dbc

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Can some explain the difference between PPG DBC and PPG DBU ? Can you spray DBC over the epoxy primer and then clear coat or is it a clear in itself ?
Thanks

Ok DBU has a reactive reducer that is used in it , it actuallly is a catylised base.( after reduction it has a pot life (will turn to jello like substance after a few hours and cannot be reused.)

DBC uses the same reducer as their clears there- fore a tad cheaper as you dont need to buy 2 seperate reducers .1 for base & 1 for clear.(DBC when reduced can be reused IF the DBC hardner isnt used. )
But DBC has a catylist the can be used in it to make it dry faster . Then it just makes it about the same cost as using DBU.
Both are excellent products just depends on what you want to spray, they spray about the same .

Dbu came out before the dbc I believe. Dbu is meant to be activated like spray said. You can activate the dbc also if wanted, but if activated any extra mixed can't be used at a later time. If you just add reducer and not activator to the dbc extra in the gun can be returned to the paint can. I heard ppg was trying to phaze out the dbu but too many people still use it, so it is still around. Check the tech sheets on ppg's website for what the products can be sprayed over and how to spray it, pot life, ect. Both have to be clearcoated. OOPs, realized I bascially repeated what spray said, didn't catch the first time that he said that activated it will harden up.

Yes DBU came out before DBC, I have been Spraying DBU since 1987or88 when it came out.
Back then if you let DBU dry an hour you could top coat it with lacquer clear, but hell i hated to rub , so I sprayed DAU75 Delglo clear over it and had great sucess with it.
I was spraying in a 75,000.00$ USItalia Downdraft paint booth , man that was like walking into the future after our old cross flow booths that just let dirt in like a windy desert.........LOL , Plus I made more money becaue i could paint more vehicles in a day because of the heat makeup in the booth, had a million BTU furnace on the back of it .
That was also before mixing banks ,and it was packaged in factory pack only.
I have been using PPG's TouchMix mix bank for around 14 years now and works great.
Now I use DBU and Top coat it with PPG's Global D893 clear as it rubbs like butter, much better then the 2002 or 2042, that stuff is like a rock after it has been cooked at 140deg. for 40 minutes .
Plus the global clear has almost no solvent pop problems. Its a more forgiving clear. Lays flatter too,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SprayTech
[B]Yes DBU came out before DBC, I have been Spraying DBU since 1987or88 when it came out.

Great slide show SprayTech.

Wish my Roadster resided nearer your facilities.

I used dbu on the first car I painted when I was just out of high school probably in 1989 on my 1980 olds cutlass. Used the nct clear because it was before I went to tech school and I didn't know much about painting, didn't realize it was more of a spot clear. It turned out decent after a little buffing. Still have two quarts of Corvette metallic grey from then, was gonna do some two tone thing, but never got around to it. I doubt the reactive reducer being that old is any good, but the paint isn't hardened up in the can. I used the nct up on some underhood parts a few years ago. The clear was yellowed quite a bit, but the activator still seemed to harden it up, but it was only on some parts inside so I didn't care if it was any good yet or not. Hard to believe the activator for the clear wasn't all hardened up after all that time. I used some of it on a model i put together too. With the way prices of paint went up I normally use the cheaper lines unless I have something where I need a really close color match. I did a few sidejobs and no one wants to spend the money that the good stuff costs. Painted a spoiler and trunk lid for a kid and told him to get dbc so would be assured of a good match, it was a blue pearl and was $80 a pint. Can get a whole gallon of the cheap stuff in most colors for around that price. I used the dcu 2020 clear on a cougar I painted and really liked that clear. I think they replaced it and it is 2021 or something now. I don't have any way to bake the clear, but most I use now, I try to get wetsanding and buffing on it the next day before it gets real hard, lot less work getting wetsanding scratches out if your carefull. Haven't seen the clears dull back out when buffing the next day.

I remember spraying the 2001 first and mixed it high solids (4:2:1) to go 2 coat clear , the other mix ( 2:1:1 )was thinner and was a 3 coat clear, then the fist of the VOC laws came out and wasnt compliant anymore , so 2020 came out then another VOC rulling , and now we have the clears today.
Those clears are like spraying Karo syirup ..LOL
You have to have an HVLP gun , with a mountain of air supply to spray them.
WOW i forgot all about using that NCT it was very fast , but had that yellow tint you speak of , and i didnt use it much as it sucked for spots as it changed the color when sprayed. (whites went a yellow cast)Plus it didnt last very long either.

Have you been able to go to the PPG paint schools?
I have been to a ton of them , plus I have to keep up my all levels as our shop is a platinum PPG shop .
The DRR reactive reducer is good for 1 month after its opened. maybe longer if kept in a cool place.

Walt, i wished you did too, as i would like to help you :-)

The reason the nct was yellow is it was probably close to 15 years old, I guess that was to be expected. I don't know what the voc laws are here, but I don't think they are as bad as a lot of other places.
For a cheaper clear I like the Marhyde. Has something too it. Used Nason a few times and that stuff is like water. The standard activator kicks it so fast that even doing small pieces it is hard not to get dry areas. Haven't tried the slower activator in it yet, but since I now see a paint store in town carries marhyde again, I'll probably go back to using that for a cheaper clear. The nason lays down nice and flat, but I don't like how watery and thin it is. Haven't been to any ppg schools, just got the opportunity to use a bunch of different brands in tech school, and used ppg deltron a lot until prices went so high, even though the shops I worked at used Dupont. Was going to go back to school for frame pulling till unemployment told me I wouldn't get benefits if I did. Haven't had any luck getting into any shops around here, and am thinking of doing something else for a living. The bodyshops all pay poorly for the work you do. Found out pay was a little better if you get into a big company in the paint department, then working in a bodyshop, and the work is better.
Other less hazardous, dirty, and demanding trades are paying just as much as the shops will give. May just keep auto body a hobby, right now I am applying at a bunch of places hoping to find a job. Quit my last job half a year ago now, and only been called for one interview. Was on unemployment before that and haven't found a good place to work since I was layed off from a boat builder. Kinda sucks when you don't have a steady paycheck.
Yeah the government has to mess with everything, pretty soon won't be able to paint cars anymore, or will be all waterbased, yuck. Epoxy primer is no where near as good as it once was.

Its real slow here as a few good body shops are closing their doors because of no business, plus the insurance companys are ruining the business, the repair & body hour times are getting cut short on all repairs.
We used to get payed for everything we did to a car repair, they have cut out all feather edge & prime time, no cut and buff time any more , ect.
The way an estimate reads tooday I should just blow paint right over the bondo !

I think in about 5-10 years we will see our occupation as just a " Bolt new parts on the car guys " as they are developing plastic parts that are inpregnated with color that are shiny.
They are also developing cars with interchangeable doors from left to right side, and front and rear bumper covers interchange also , these cars look so crappy as they have no design at all.
It doesnt matter what angle you look at it, the front looks like the back , I guess thats will be the new car slogan , no one knows if your comming or going ..LOL
I hate to admit it but i am so burnt out painting cars i cant stand to go to work, I feel like a frigging robot . I used to love it , but as the insurance companies dig their hands deeper and deeper in to the business it SUCKS!!!
I wish Streets would adopt me :-)

Spray

Not to mention the insurance companys misguiding customers and steering them to there own body shops and not telling them they have the right to go to the shop of there choice. The economy really hurt too, because unless there car wasn't drivable, people would leave there cars smashed and take an insurance check. I'll probably always like autobody, but don't like it when doing it for a living in a shop. Have to practically beg for $10 an hour, and been involved in the trade in some sort or the other for almost 15 years. I am just sick of it, meanwhile my brother had no schooling (except going to school for corrections, which he didn't go into)and puts in flooring. He started working part time at the company when he was in tech school and is still there today. I bet he pulls in 50 grand a year as well as getting a bunch of side work. He doesn't have to deal with nowhere near the hazardous stuff I've dealt with, and not as much money in tools to do the job. I choose the wrong profession. Stay at one place for a while, get fed up not getting raises or making decent money and the bs, then try to find another place to work. Kinda hard to start in a new proffession at 34 years old. There aren't many kids getting into the trade either. I don't like the styling on a lot of the newer cars now, don't even no what a lot of them are. When I was a teenager, I knew what almost every car on the road was by looking at it. My neighbor has one of those honda suv thingys. Ugly as sin, looks like they put a box of glass on the top.

SprayTech,
How long does it take nowdays to prep and paint a car compared to the old days, when you didn't have downdraft booths and furnances to dry it with ? Seems like it's taking me fore ever to paint my truck but I'm new at this. I don't have any booth just my old garage with the walls covered in plastic sheating and box fans where I cut a hole in the back of it.

As for Streets adopting you, lots of luck, he spends his millions buying up all the Henways he can find.

I don't care what kind of booth you have, sanding everything good and getting stuff straight and then masking stuff off or removing it still takes a bit of work and time. Then after if you have to buff, thats more time.Having a nice booth sure makes things easier though when you don't have to worry about overspray floating in the air, and not having enough light. Most places I worked had homemade booths, and the dealership I worked at had a crossflow but it was worse to paint in then the homemade ones. The only time you could get a pretty clean paint job is when it was raining outside. The only nice one I painted in was at techschool. Use to be a crossflow, and they dug out the floor and made it a downdraft. About the only thing a baking booth is gonna save time on is drying of the paint. Then the car can be delivered or buffed in a matter of hours instead of 16 hrs to buff when air drying.

It doesnt take me very long at all , as we dont try to make the panels straight as all get out .
We are a production shop not a show car shop, we make them presentable.
For instance most repairs I get are front ends, so some of it is new parts and repaired parts.
I feather edge and prime my repaired areas and let primer set over night , then in the morning I will block sand my primed areas , then sand with 320 on a DA, then blow it off, back it in the booth , wrap it up , then wipe it down with wax and grease remover, tack it, seal it , base it , then clear it , then turn it on cook cycle,.
I can usually do 2 front ends by noon( get to work at 8 AM) , so thats 2 hours per car total from prep to paint.
That encludes blending both doors also.
Like I said I feel like a robot any more as I have painted for 30 years. I could do it in my sleep, most time when I am spraying i am thinking of what i need to do to my HotRod .LOL

And I never get comebacks , unless they wreck them again! Its how you make the big bucks now days