Just joined, my name is Sabrina, "Brie" for short. 63 Retired Army, been twisting wrenches since 1964 as a kid.
I have a 1959 F-100 that I want to put a 1971 Ford 400M with a C-6 into, will it work??
Brie
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Just joined, my name is Sabrina, "Brie" for short. 63 Retired Army, been twisting wrenches since 1964 as a kid.
I have a 1959 F-100 that I want to put a 1971 Ford 400M with a C-6 into, will it work??
Brie
Brie, First thanks for your service to this country... welcome aboard.. Can't help you on your question but i don't know why it wouldn't fit... not sure how big the 400 is.. maybe someone else here will get back to you... hang in there and thanks again..
Brie--welcome
By going to a 71 400m you are only gaining 12 years into more modern stuff---------is there a particular reason you want a 1971 400??????? A 460 and accessories from a Lincoln would be a better choice
Brie,
I echo Parkwood's thanks for your dedicated service. Your F100 has tons of room up front, enough to sit on the inner fender with your feet on the frame to work on things under the hood. I saw a F100 of that era (maybe a '60?) with a 4.6L Mod Motor, and it still had room to spare. The Mod Motor is super wide, so I don't think you'll have any problems, other than either finding the right mix of motor mounts or fabricating new mounts on the frame. There may be someone here who can guide you to an OEM mount that works.
Attachment 59793
Attachment 59794
Welcome to CHR Brie! Yeah, the engine and trans will fit in the '59 quite well. If my (feeble) memory serves me correctly you can use the 400 motor mounts, then the stands that bolt to the front crossmember from a '68-'72 F-100 with a small block in it. Should be real common item at a U-Pull-It yard. Might have to shorten the stands, can't remember, but once you get the whole thing mocked up you'll just need to drill new holes for the stands. Did a similar swap in a '60 a couple decades back. Oh yeah, trans mount was the same way, rubber mount from the C6, then just re-position the original trans mount and bolt it back into the frame rails. Whatever is rig is donating the engine and trans, you might want to grab the radiator, too.
Truck trans has a shorter tail shaft housing so you may need to shorten or lengthen drive shaft if new trans is from a car
Thanks Guys, basically the 400 M is a stroked 351 Cleveland. The 71 LTD had it's engine and tranny completely rebuilt in 2003 by a Ford dealer this guy loved it so much. He put somewhere between five and six thousand miles on it before he was diagnosed with inoperable cancer, and he and his Methodist Minister wife put it in storage in Carlsbad in covered, but open storage. She had been paying the 50 dollars a month storage on it ever since, when she approached me at a small Cafe' in a farming hamlet of 200 about a year ago. I left it in storage, but will make the 260 mile round trip to Carlsbad to bring it home next month. It has never been started since they parked it, the Interior and paint look fine but it can't be registered in Texas,I have the N.M. registration, but to the to the dead man, Etc.. All four tires are dry rotted, but I can turn the engine over by hand. Advice anyone?
Sounds like a great engine for the truck to me, but if you're interested in keeping the car together I'm pretty sure you can get a Texas title - might have to pay an attorney a few bucks, but people buy from estates all the time, even estates in other states. Get a bill of sale, and if the wife can find the NM title have her sign it over to you along with a short letter explaining the situation. Start with the DMV and go from there....
Whats in the truck for an engine now?????????
Since the LTD is a 1971 its probably higher pre smog compression and has a 9 inch rear end and front disc brakes????????????
It has pre smog compression, the 2 BBl Holly, a points type distributor which I actually prefer, A non-computerized transmission, and front disc brakes. I'm not sure about the rear axle, and won't know till I bring it home next week. As soon as I bring her home, I will pull the plugs, and throw some MMO down the cylinders. I am an active pilot, and have an engine pre-oiler with oil heating elements that I will use to heat and pressurize the oil in the engine. What I am NOT sure about, is HOW to bring the C-6 that has been parked that long back on line? Should I just take it to a good tranny shop and have them rebuild it? I have worked on anything from lawn mower engines, to Cars, short track stock cars, Motorcycles, and my aircraft, but I know absolutely nothing about automatics, so I'll leave that to an expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
R is for backing up and d 1, d2, l are for going forward---put it in P or N for starting, holler out clear and turn the prop---------
Auto matic trans aren't like engines with cylinder walls and rings, valves, camshafts, etc 0000-----fire the engine warm it up and cycle the shifter between the gears to circulate some fluid and then try driving it--------
but-whats in the TRUCK now?????????
Jerry, I think Brie answered the question directly above your last post, 292 old Y block I think. Welcome from me down under too Brie. We love photographs so when you get this beast home don't forget to get the camera out please.
Brie,
Like Jerry says, the first test is to get it running, hit each gear position to see how it feels & sounds, top off the fluid and then see how it performs. Chances are the seals are going to be dried out, but you may get lucky and a little exercise softens them up enough. If you do decide to go through it ask around and find the independent, no name tranny shop where the mechanics take cars. Not many mechanic shops tackle transmissions either, and they know who fixes them right because they are going to be the guy guaranteeing the tranny guy's work. I doubt it will be one of the national chains. Around here it's Olathe Transmission, hidden back on an old feeder street, tall metal building with lots of "stuff" scattered around but about every shop in the area takes Paul their transmissions. He's the guy you can tell, "Just fix it" and he'll do what it needs to be right, and nothing more.
Welcome Brie.. good to see you here. Not sure what options are in the LTD but, if it's real nice.. maybe it's to nice to part out??
In any event, lube the cylinders as you planned and with the plugs still out, spin the starter and let the motor build oil pressure. You can also verify spark from the coil at this time. Drain any old gas and replace with fresh and then put the plugs back in and see if it'll start.
If you haven't heard it before... we love pictures!!! 8-)
I put a photo of the 59 truck which IS at my place as my Avatar, I'll try to load some more up in an album tonight.
I just lost a post about the 292 y block and that you should keep both vehicles ----don't take one apart for the other-------damn it--was a nice long piece about the y-block oiling and the LTD pieces------maybe I'll rewrite it tonight-----
What Jerry's been asking is what's the power train in the '59 as it sits now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niri Tawä
For pictures, I find it much better to post pictures in the thread where they're referenced vs saying "...look in my album." Here's a link that talks about two different ways to post in threads - http://www.clubhotrod.com/shop-talk/...tml?highlight=
Welcome, Brie, looks like you're getting some great info on your Fomoco stuff. I think you'll find that these members are about the best that there is for our kind of hobby, along with being a great bunch to swap questions and ideas with. SALT FLAT - - - WOW, that's about as far as you can go in West Texas without being in a large town or out of state LOL and it's got the beautiful Guadalupe Mtns and El. Capitan to look at when you're out and about. When you get the project started, please snap some pics and share with us as you can. Good Luck Em
Attachment 59803Attachment 59804OK, let's see if I can load a photo for you guys. One is the stock 292, the other should be the front of the truck. Please let me know if these are visible.
Here are the drivers side, and the little round radio on the Dash
Attachment 59811Attachment 59812
I think I'm figuring this out. Here are the full dash, and the rear view Attachment 59813Attachment 59814
Kool stuff,Brie.. Before you ditch the legendary Y block,,listen to Jerry,,and/or talk to Tim McMaster about it.. He has a lot of tips,also,,in the small issues with Y blocks..:cool:
Love your 59,too.. My daily driver is a 1960 F100,which is repowered with a stock 302W/C4..But,,I still have the 292 that came out of it..;) Welcome aboard..
Neat old truck. I always liked those radios.
Well, I woke up at 6AM and couldn't get back to sleep, so I made a pot of coffee, and I'm at the computer. Guys I would LOVE to turn the 292 into a 312, and make it look like someone took a 312 special out of a Thunderbird, and put it in the truck, like they used to like to do to the Fords back then, the local Auto parts store can get me a 312 crank and rods for it, I just need to talk to someone about what the oiling problem was, and how you fixed it. HOW much would I love to put a 312 in that truck? I went out and found someone that has an old oblong chrome T-bird air cleaner for the truck. I think that I heard that it was as simple as the original center cam bearing only had an oil supply hole drilled into it, and not the circumferential groove cut into the bearing, so that if the bearing spun a little bit, you lost the oil pressure to the upper engine. That's an easy fix, put newer grooved bearings in. But then something tells me that it was a more serious problem than that, and anyone who KNOWS is older than me, and I am 63. This engine is supposed to be REAL strong, I bought it from a guy in Dell City (Population 212), a small farming hamlet where I go for coffee and the mail. He owned the towing company, and there was a couple traveling from Wyoming, that had a problem with the truck in the early eighties, and he gave them several hundred dollars for the truck, and took them to the local Greyhound Station, and then fixed the truck, and parked it in his garage. In the late nineties, all kinds of teenagers wanted to buy the truck to turn it into a drag racer, so he wouldn't sell it to them. Finally, as he was getting older, a mid twenties guy wanted to buy it, so he put gas in it, and got in the right seat to let the guy test drive it. When they got to the end of the guy's dirt driveway, and turned on the road to Dell City, the guy put the truck into granny first, wound the engine up to about three grand, and dumped the clutch, picking the heavy front end of the truck several inches off the ground, and bending one pushrod. John, the Korean War, 82nd Airborne veteran tow service owner punched the guy in the side of the head, and told him to walk the ten miles to town, the test drive was over. John drove it back to his house, and swore he would never sell the truck to anyone who would mistreat it, which meant he wasn't going to sell it. I move out here and bought 80 acres in 2003, and in 2010 found out about the truck, and John knew I wanted an old Ford so bad, I could taste it, and I wouldn't race it, so he sold it to me in 2010. It sat by my house till now, when I can afford to restore it into what the High School Seniors were driving in 1964 when I was 14, and drooling over Pickup Trucks. So here the truck and I sit wondering what I should do with the drive train in the truck which will eventually an early sixties style flame job, an Oak and Chrome floor in it's bed, and a diamond Tuck interior. Some guidance here from you older hands would be a good thing, THANKS.
If my trailer wasn't full already I'd be leaving after coffee to come and save that truck----------------
The Y-blocks-----replaced the flatheads in 1954--------239,256,272,292,312-----right rear distributors at an angle driving external oil pump at lower left rear block with oil filter from side of casting and road vent further forward, intake ports paired with one on top of another( sideways compared to every thing else since)
The 272,292,312 all used the same ch pistons so 312 pistons could be used in bored out 272 (.175) or 292 (.050) and/or a 312 crank could be put into the 272/292 if you used 312 rods also-I think the best combo was the 272 bored .175 with the 312 piston as it made it around 302? with the shorter crank, heads milled .060 and with dual Packard 1 3/16 venture wcfb? quads on a Fenton manifold and Isky cam could kick the butt of anything else I ran across up til the nite the flywheel went thru the floor,dash, and windshield----------however the good thing was that it didn't dent/hole any of the painted exterior surface!!!!
A common mod done after the 57s came out with the supercharger was to put that cam (Isky)B7A-6250D but in the earlier cars you had to change one of the cam bearings (or groove the cam )
The coming of the overhead valve v8s brought a few issues that haddened been issues with either the flathead v8 or the overhead valve motors and both ford and chev were in new fields of weeds at that period of time----------chev did hyd tappets and hollow pushrods (one of the engineering items high up on an all time list) to oil the top end and Ford did a oi path upwards around a head bolt with a sideways sashway around an inch or so from the #2 and 4 cam bearing to the passage to the rocker stand which tended to fill up with sludge over time period of NON detergent oil use and poor oil/filter changes-Back then detergent oil and the use of oil filters was a new thing and most people if they changed the filter at all only did it every second or third time or maybe only when they did spark plugs----------With this sludge blocking the oil flow upwards the rockers/pushrods/shafts would wear and also without the drian back the tappets (cute little top hats) would wear and sometimes stop spinning which would then wipe the cam lobe----------Yep, even back then-------
A old guy (who ended up working with me ay UAL) invented lots of stuff which he sold the rights to people like Lysle?---He did a system where you took oil from the oil pressure guage fitting and routed two 3/16 brake lines up and under the edge(flattened a little) of the valve cover and tapped into the core of the rocker shaft--good answer to fix something that had not already been damaged too much------
Other remenies were to remove shaft assemblies and using a piece of speedometer cable rootoroot the oil passage from the top down but that wouldn't go sideways thru the head altho sometimes that would be enough. I also sometimes put a zerk fitting into the hole and pumped high pressure grease down which would force the sludge all the way back but was always questionabul about where did it go---hopefully not down an into the mains-------
I posted the above so I wouldn't lose it as it was getting long--------
However enough ? about the rocker shaft oiling---
You don't need to put a 312 crank/rods into the motor because it really won't do nothing for you---especially if the 292 crank/rods are good---but find a set of the aluminum T-Bird valve covers and a set of 3x2 or 2 x4 s and a pair of Allis Chalmer D17 diesel mufflers (2 in straight thru) -----you already got alum wheels on it and you are close to Mexico for taking it to get it upholstered
Another thought about swaps in Fords from back in that era----------Ford went to that front dist/oil pump AND REVERSE sump oil pan starting with the engines that came out 1958 and later and they won't go into some vehicles because of that----------THAT is probably why there was the big movement to CHEV engines for swaps into hotrods back then------the oil pan!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brie,
Google/Bing 'ford y block' and you'll get a ton of links. This one FORD Y is on top for a reason. Sounds like maybe if you just pull the 292 and take it to a good engine shop to be cleaned out good and then built back right you'll have what you want. Personally I like Scot - Sehr Performance Machine Engine Rebuilding Specialists You might give them a call and chat a bit about what you've got and what you want, but I'll warn you that you might end up shipping your engine north if you do.....
Been checking the numbers in an old bearing book and as I thought ---you can't put 312 crank in the 272/292 blocks as the main bearing size is 2.6235-2.6243 with a main bore size 2.8160- 2.8168 where as the 272/292 main bearing 2.4980-2.4988 and main bore 2.6912- 2.6920
And----------I might be wrong on what I wrote about the #2&4 cam bearings feeding the top---It might be just #3 on those engines but was #2&4 on the later design FE engines
I saved the Ford Y link in my favorites, the Sehr firm, as of this time does Chevy's only, when it comes to block prep.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
Scotty did my SBF 347 stroker from bare block. He'll do Chevy, Ford & Mopar, and he had a killer nailhead Buick in there last time I was in his shop. He's developed a special "Ultimate Block Prep" package for Chevy's. His note about "Ford & Mopar Coming Soon..." may be more of a website thing than a service thing. If you've got an interest give them a call. Great guys - Scot's the main guy, Kermit is his right hand man, and Tim (Scot's dad, I think) mans the phones most of the time and handles e-mails & computer stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niri Tawä
Brie----another thing about the 292 Y blocks------the heavier duty trucks---like maybe 2 ton---had 7/16 sodium filled exhaust stems and were quite heavy so don't plan on any sort of high rpm if your heads have them---you can change guides and stem sizes tho and if you mill any off the heads you need to do 150% from the manifold surface of the head to maintain alignment---.060 from deck = .090 from intake surface
Concerning the front end of the '59, does anyone make a spindle that will accommodate a later model Disc Brake setup? I don't have the bucks to graft a Fox Chassis into the truck, so if I go to discs on the front, it will have to be on the "I Beam" front end.
I'm thinking we put the later disc brake spindle/hub on John Keeling's truck, but it would of been a 1967 and I don't know if they would fit the 59----------If you do, you will need to change master cylinder and probably go to power brakes but if you have power steering I would suggest the Mustang Hydro boost over vacume assist---
THANKS, that's a big help.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
I'm wondering that because they are still Twin "I" beam suspended, if using spindles that are from a seventies era F series truck would go farther to insure success with the brake refurbishing?Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
By going to the 70's spindles, as Jerry said, you would gain disc brakes which would be a huge improvement in braking for the truck! Around here the spindles, calipers, and rotors are cheap at the junk yard and in the long run would not only give you better braking but would probably cost less to put on then rebuilding all the stock drum brake stuff!! The kingpins connecting the spindles to the I-beam would be the only issue, but some machining on either or both pieces should be able to get the correct diameter's for the bushings! IMO, even if the cost were higher going to the disc brake setup would be well worth it!
Starting sometime next month, after "Uncle Sugar" releases out Veteran's Pensions, I will start taking apart the front brakes, to measure the king pins and other relevant parts, for some junkyard re-supply. At that time, I will take photos of the progress. I will also measure the leaf spring pads, to see if I can use a newer Rear Axle.
You can also use a website like Rock Auto and see what part numbers are needed for items like king pins and brake pads calipers etc.... You might see where those parts are the same or different and never have to leave the comfort of your arm chair!
