Thread: '51 binder project - just started

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Hi all

I recently dragged home a '51 International L110 (half ton pick-up). I'm still formulating a plan for the beast, but I'm thinking something like this:

Cummins 4BT Turbo Diesel + 4" exhaust
NV4500 5-speed trans
2" to 4" drop - Maybe Mustang II Front Suspension
Power Disk brakes on all 4 wheels
Steelies with wide whites
Paint - to be determined

The plan is to make a 100% daily driver, capable of urban freeway rush-hour traffic. There's a couple of good binder sites, but they're mostly a "keep it stock" crowd. I plan on lurking here for good ideas and will certainly throw out a few dumb questions.

Welcome to the group. Very interesting project you are planning. Hope you keep posting as it comes together, lots of good info will come from it I'm sure.

Don

Welcome! For those who have read this before, check it out again, Michael Perry wrote a book, called truck a love story where he rebuilds his 51 international. My wife read it, gave it to me and said I support your fixing up an old truck! The rest is history! I think we should start a who series, like GTO a love story, Deuce a love story...great ideas! here is a link, should you think I'm making this up. Image: Truck: A Love Story: Michael Perry
Post some photos of the 51! Steve. 48 Ford F1.

That lil' Cummins is a heavy little beast, especially with that trans, I wouldn't put MII stuff under it. I'm no fan of Pinto's anyway. but your truck, and the forward position of the engine compartment compared to most rods, will overload the suspension. A Camaro or S10 clip would be safer. I can see a lot of flak coming my way for this, but what the heck, you did ask!

Thanks, i've heard mixed information regarding the Mustang II susp. Some say it will work fine, others say it's only suitable for a smaller street rod. Logic tells me the latter is probably true, especially for a daily vehicle.

I hadn't thought about looking at an S-10 or Camaro. Do these have a removable sub-frame, or would more major surgery be involved. Maybe I should take a trip to the junkyard and have a look.

Thanks for the lead on the book. I'm going to order it today!

Chad
I don't know about the weight of a cummings diesel, but I do know that about 20 different companies sell the mustang 2 front clip conversions for both old Chevys and Ford trucks. Just about any truck I've read on line has this settup, with some pretty hefty big block gas engines under the hood. I'm staying stock right now, just converted front to disc brakes, with a 460 under the hood. Here is one web site that sells front suspension set ups. I'm not familiar with the international front end enough to know pro or con on the mustang conversion, but the above mentioned brands use them all the time!
Zig's Street Rod - Truck Components

Considering the weight of a diesel I don't necessarily disagree with borther Pope. As for the other comments you've heard there's a lot of misinformed belief out there on MII/Pinto suspensions. The heaviest of MIIs were upwards of 3400 pounds, with a roughly 55% front weight bias, remember their engines were near centered over the axle centerline. So calculate accordingly. Also, many of the aftermarket suppliers of these designs have upped the strength of the control arms and anchor points, so if you check with them on recommended weight limits for their specific construction you may find a suitable setup. Additionally, if you look at the vendors in some of the Custom/Rod truck magazines you'll see there are kits for both Volare suspension systems which are bolt in, and Dakota adaption kits that mount Dakota components on a fabbed crossmember. Not tuned in enough to that market to know if they build for corn binders.

The Pinto was designed for a four cylinder engine. The MII was beefed up a tad to carry a small V8, but did you ever drive one down a bad road? They are a pig! A buddy was nearly killed when his V6 MII flipped end-over-end on a straight gravel road. If you never go out of town, you might make it work, but drive carefully, the life you save might be mine!
The "suppliers" make kits for a lot of setups that are iffy, to say the least. I've seen guys replace much better front ends with a swap, just to be able to put MII on their list of mods at shows, things like '65 Coronets and '64 Galaxies.

Above all, I want something solid ,durable and safe. I don't plan to autocross the truck, and I don't mind if it rides like a....truck. My main thoughts behind an IFS swap is that it would facilitate disk brakes and a small (2"+/-) drop.

My biggest issue with the stock front end is that no-one is making "hot-rod" parts for it. If I had a Ford/Chevy, I could just get drop spindles with disk mounts and be done.

Maybe a custom dropped beam up front that uses more common spindles is a better option for me. This, along with a big-arse sway-bar, disk brakes and decent tires seems like a more practical route. Like I say, I'm still in the planning stages, and sort of learning as I go.

If you go with the Mustang II suspension, don't cheap out and use the stock stamped arms stuff, go with the tubular upper and lower control arms and the forged spindles..... I've installed these on a number of pickups running big block engines and never had any troubles....

A few other things to consider with the MII, there are two racks, a quick steer and a slower steer ratio.... I wouldn't recomend the quick ratio steering on a pickup. If you go power steering, you will need to check the pressure out of the power steering pump and install a valve to adjust it to the correct pressure... The MII rack has a low pressure requirement, so check with the manufacturer of the rack and see what he suggests....If he sez it's not a problem, don't buy from him!!!

As for handling, if they are installed and set up correctly and the guy doing the alignment knows what he is doing it will drive and handle very well, if not it can be a handful to drive. Guess I've never driven one on a gravel road, but I don't drive any of my Hot Rods on gravel roads so I couldn't comment on the handling. I have taken a few laps on road race courses in a car with MII suspension and been very pleased with the results....

With any suspension if the installation and alignment are not done correctly, they can become very dangerous.

The quality MII packages with the tubular arms, forged spindles, and heavy duty racks only resemble the original Mustang suspension in their geometry and alignment specs.... Like I said, I've sold and installed bunches of them on lots of different vehicles and never had problems with them..... Just don't buy the junk and expect it to perform like the good stuff!!!!

If you go with a weld on stub off a Nova, Volare, or whatever else remember that you are installing a bunch of used parts.... Plan on replacing the ball joints, bushings, lots of scrape, grind, sand, and paint time to make them look good, and check the steering box for damage and wear.... When you pull a stub off a donor car or buy one out of a junkyard you have now idea how it was maintained or what kind of use, misuse, or damage it has suffered in the past.......