Thread: I got news about the Model A in the field

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do you guys remember this post I made?

http://clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40095

Well it's a friend of my uncle's. I kept bugging him to talk to the guy about it, make sure if he was going to let it go he gave me first stab. talked to him today, he said his friend wants to build it with me. I'm not sure exactly what that means, me helping him build it him footing bill, or me footing and him helping and I keep it etc. BUT it does mean I have the next project in line if I ever get the truck done.

now, I know nothing about these. what's there is all it's got. anybody able to give me the crash course on what it takes to complete them, and good sources? I'm thinking not a rad rod but not a fancied out rod like the truck will be (meaning minus all the expensive niceties). I'd like to do rat rod from the perspective of as much found and antique stuff i can get on there.

also powerplant wise, I was thinking either a real flathead or maybe going with a Old's rocket or 289. definitely, under no circumstances, a chevy engine. (just cause 80% of the fords out there have 350's in them).

Now, my grandma's boyfriend has a boat with a 454 with a blower. been sitting a long time, he said might need to be rebuilt. he's not sure if he'll sell with boat or seperate it. but it seems like too much engine for this car. thoughts?

no bomber seats either, gotta be something at least somewhat comfortable, I'm a big guy. also thinking about keeping the top open, with a sliding cover, make it easy to put my girls in the back seat.

Red

you can never have too big an engine.

You can build it for economy, thus limiting power, and maybe get upwards of 30 MPG and still have more power than you can use.

[QUOTE=firebird77clone;345485]you can never have too big an engine. QUOTE]

hell put a rolls-merlin v-12 in that bad boy !!!

For what it is worth, almost all of your questions can be answered and sources provided if you can find a paperback book entitled

"How to Build a HOT ROD Model A Ford" by Dennis Parks, published by MBI Publishing Corp. of www.motorbooks.com,

That whole book is a complete build up of exactly the same model you have and includes instructions for chopping the top and installing things like an air conditioner, although the book does use a lot of top dollar parts. It does show a Chevy SBC, I wonder why? In spite of folks on this Forum having their favorites, there is a good reason why the SBC is so popular in a Model A. I love that high revving 289/302 but you will need a special aftermarket short water pump. On the other hand I have almost $300 extra in a gadget to raise the fan up in the radiator space on my Model A so that is a trade off. The flathead looks easy until you try to find a good one or try to repair a block that has cracks or needs sleeves. Be warned that you can build a SBC for under $2000 while a flathead or Chrysler hemi will be more than twice that amount and you can get as much H.P. from the SBC easily. Anyway the book by Dennis Parks is excellent and will guide you through the necessary steps in the right way. While a top chop looks great (to me) and looks to be easy on these squarish bodies, once you cut that top off someone will have to come up with good welding skills to get it back together. I would think any large book store should be able to get the Dennis Parks for you.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

For what it is worth, almost all of your questions can be answered and sources provided if you can find a paperback book entitled

"How to Build a HOT ROD Model A Ford" by Dennis Parks, published by MBI Publishing Corp. of www.motorbooks.com,

That whole book is a complete build up of exactly the same model you have and includes instructions for chopping the top and installing things like an air conditioner, although the book does use a lot of top dollar parts. It does show a Chevy SBC, I wonder why? In spite of folks on this Forum having their favorites, there is a good reason why the SBC is so popular in a Model A. I love that high revving 289/302 but you will need a special aftermarket short water pump. On the other hand I have almost $300 extra in a gadget to raise the fan up in the radiator space on my Model A so that is a trade off. The flathead looks easy until you try to find a good one or try to repair a block that has cracks or needs sleeves. Be warned that you can build a SBC for under $2000 while a flathead or Chrysler hemi will be more than twice that amount and you can get as much H.P. from the SBC easily. Anyway the book by Dennis Parks is excellent and will guide you through the necessary steps in the right way. While a top chop looks great (to me) and looks to be easy on these squarish bodies, once you cut that top off someone will have to come up with good welding skills to get it back together. I would think any large book store should be able to get the Dennis Parks for you.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Red you can also get that book on amazon.com here http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Hot-.../dp/0760308799
My cousin's husband took my uncles old model A off my grandma's ranch in Kerman back in the 70's and made a beautiful rod out of it. Quite a few old cars just in your back yard down in Fresno, usually hiden behind the tractor barns in the grape vinyards! Someone on here a while back posted a site for old flatheads in the bay area, that are out of French army vehicles if I remember correctly. Heck I'm with you, I think it would be cool to use an old flathead, or a ford small block, though from what don's saying you might need to stretch a frame to accomodate a water pump!

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

For what it is worth, almost all of your questions can be answered and sources provided if you can find a paperback book entitled

"How to Build a HOT ROD Model A Ford" by Dennis Parks, published by MBI Publishing Corp. of www.motorbooks.com,

That whole book is a complete build up of exactly the same model you have and includes instructions for chopping the top and installing things like an air conditioner, although the book does use a lot of top dollar parts. It does show a Chevy SBC, I wonder why? In spite of folks on this Forum having their favorites, there is a good reason why the SBC is so popular in a Model A. I love that high revving 289/302 but you will need a special aftermarket short water pump. On the other hand I have almost $300 extra in a gadget to raise the fan up in the radiator space on my Model A so that is a trade off. The flathead looks easy until you try to find a good one or try to repair a block that has cracks or needs sleeves. Be warned that you can build a SBC for under $2000 while a flathead or Chrysler hemi will be more than twice that amount and you can get as much H.P. from the SBC easily. Anyway the book by Dennis Parks is excellent and will guide you through the necessary steps in the right way. While a top chop looks great (to me) and looks to be easy on these squarish bodies, once you cut that top off someone will have to come up with good welding skills to get it back together. I would think any large book store should be able to get the Dennis Parks for you.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don - I do have to take exception with you about needing a short water pump on a small block Ford. I can help some, but what is really needed is a recessed firewall (- which you need regardless). My 5.0 has a conventionally sized Stewart NASCAR pump and a big block recess. After that, it's as easy as any other engine. This is my '30-'31 and while the body is different, the engine compartment is exactly the same size and the frame virtually identical, '28 thru '31, with minor exceptions for brackets and brake rods.

As far as doing a flathead, they are nostalgic, but are really not easy/inexpensive to build in today's world with very poor cores available and the fact that a set of aluminum heads are about as expensive as a set of Worlds for a SBF or C. Then you really get expensive!!!

[QUOTE=Dago Red;345455]do you guys remember this post I made?

http://clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40095
( he said his friend wants to build it with me. I'm not sure exactly what that means, me helping him build it him footing bill, or me footing and him helping and I keep it etc. )

I would want to know exactley what his intentions where before I ever started daydreaming about it. Partners on just about anything rarely go like they are supposed to,someone always gets mad or feels cheated. But if he wants to give you ownership & control of the build and he just wants to help, No problem.

Chevy small block?, Ford small block??, What the hell. Go find yourself a nice 331 Chrysler Hemi. Looks as good as a dressed flattie, and more powerfull than either the Chevy or the Ford.

IC2, Great pictures as usual! I was speaking relative to the stock firewall. If you do the weld-in-the-wheel-barrow routine I guess you can move the motor mounts back, maybe that is why the original firewall indent in my Bebops 'glass was so big and deep. I envy your nice headlight cables but I have four wires in mine due to the in-headlight turn signals and can barely squeeze them through the cheezier stock type flex tubes. How many wires did you thread through those cables? My only regret with a SBC is that GM may not exist much longer but there are still a lot of SBC parts out there. Maybe here is the place to offer my 4" Merc stroker crank for $400 or about half the price of a new one from Speedway. You will have to pay shipping but I will box it up in 2"x4" lumber. It comes with Merc rods and a Merc flywheel which could be chopped. Now all you have to do is find a useable flathead block.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

You guys are awesome. We're barbequing over there this weekend. i guess the first thing to find out is whether he is building it and I'm helping, which is fine because I love working with other people's money. or if I am going to buy it, fund it and he'll help.

also great is financially in 2 years I'll be in a lot better spot than now, and I figure it'll take that long to finish up the truck.

How much power does it take to make these things move well? I don't need this one to be a monster pavement eating creature, just have enough, definitely look and sound good. I'm thinking something that seats four (that's if it's the scenario where it's mine. friend used to race cars, he may have a very different idea).

on the lots of power spectrum my question is how much it can actually use? if we built a frame and did it all right suspension, brakes, steering etc. would it be able to use a big block beast or would it just spin the tires and be theatrical?

Thanks as always. I'll order the book as soon as payday rolls around.

Red

Red, If you are scratch building a chassis/frame, you can build to whatever engine and horsepower you desire. In that case, the body just becomes a weather shelter!!!

What you can't do is to expect an 80 year Ford OEM Model A chassis/frame to be compatible with mega horsepower no matter how much you box and reinforce. Many, if not most a re tweaked either from collision or the crummy roads of the late '20s and '30s. The transmission cross member and often the front cross member is cracked and to the point that they are unsaveable. A TCI perimeter frame is a good place to start and not really expensive - as long as you don't get carried away and buy all of their chrome and stainless (which I have on mine

Don't forget - we are here to bounce ideas and questions off - and most folks have a lot more experience then me.