Thread: New Project 63 Thunderbird!

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Thanks Don, just what we needed............another 700 pound chunk of steel sitting in the shop. The old saying "10 pounds of something in a 5 pound bag" comes to mind. Who needs room to actually work on your projects anyway?

Actually, he got a good deal and it was right here in our area. Saturday we are going to tear into it and see what the innards look like. If it looks ok we can get it into the machine shop to get it tanked and machined. We have a super good machine shop locally, and the owner is a Ford fanatic (has an original GT40 and a few Cobras) so he can do his usual good work on it, if it is worth doing.

I was telling Don the story of when I worked at a Ford dealership in 1964, as a lot car wash guy. One day they told me to go get a 1963 T Bird that we had on the lot. Pretty little car, yellow, black vinyl top, real wire wheels, etc. When I turned the key it literally roared to life, so I shut it off and cranked it again. I could tell there was something under the hood. When I took it around the building to wash it I popped the hood. It had an all chromed 406 Ford tripower engine in it..........and I mean ALL CHROME, every bracket, bolt, etc. Turns out it was a Ford Caravan show car, and the dealer ended up with it at the end of the model year. They wanted $ 1800 for it, and I tried every way in the world to come up with the money, but as a lot boy I made like $ 30 a week. I've always wondered what happened to that car.

Don

Your back will thank you for getting rid of the cast iron intake for anything aluminum if you ever have to pull the intake in the car.

I used to pull them by hand when I had too, but anymore if I have to remove one of those cast iron monsters in car, the cherry picker does the work.

A couple of other things comes to mind aobut these old birds.....

It seems like they take kind of an odd ball power steering pump and bracket, and I'm not sure of there is enough room fro the newer style setup in the engine bay.

Here is a link for a PS bracket just in case (price seems pretty good)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-...mZ120294001546


The pump itself looks something like this.

Mike, Thank you for the link on the pump and bracket
I agree that intake is way too heavy! Aluminum it is for me! I did get the original power steering pump with the car so if the 68 unit will not fit I have the correct one. I heard the 65 and up block are different in regards to the alternator mount is cast into the block on the passenger side (vs what I do not know prior to 65)
I think a test fit of this engine is going to be in the works soon to see where we stand with clearance, brackets, etc.

Originally Posted by Mr Blue

Mike, Thank you for the link on the pump and bracket
I agree that intake is way too heavy! Aluminum it is for me! I did get the original power steering pump with the car so if the 68 unit will not fit I have the correct one. I heard the 65 and up block are different in regards to the alternator mount is cast into the block on the passenger side (vs what I do not know prior to 65)
I think a test fit of this engine is going to be in the works soon to see where we stand with clearance, brackets, etc.

The 64 and back had a generator mounted at the bottom on the right side as I recall. I remember some of the 63s having a remote reservoir for the power steering mounted on the fenderwell..

Here you go Don, I ran into this on the 64 Ford I'm building. Page 2 shows what I did to use the later alternator on an early block.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16968

Mike,
Thanks for the shots of the alternator. and I love the car I would guess that car is completed now correct? What kind of Plymouth did you build?
Love the Thunderbird Tri Power set up!
Question for you. The Thunderbird engine sits level in my car (all 61-63 from what I am told). Some pictures show a "thunderbird specific" spacer on 4 barrel cars so the carb sits on an angle instead of flat. Your Tripower set up has all carbs sitting at the same level correct? (Not the back carb sitting higher than the middle and the front carb)
I have seen many tripower set ups for the 390 online, but they have staggered heights on the carbs.
I guess the issue becomes if you install a "non Tbird" Tripower in my car the rear carb would sit higher than the middle, then front etc. Correct? Also the underhood clearance is tight between the hood and the carbs on tbirds (the reason for the carbs all being at the same level) Hope I did not confuse with my questions. Don Jr.

Well the 64 has been basically a "filler" project that I work on when I hit a stopping point on other projects (like waiting on stuff from the body shop etc.

It's pretty much in the same shape as it shows in the last post I made to the build thread. As my next major project is building a new shop over the next year or so (and currently that is where all the money is going). It will probably come back into the shop for a while after I get back from vacation at the end of the month however. I have all the parts to do the brakes including a front disc conversion, so it's something I can do without sending any money. I do fire it up and move it occasionally, but it's not a lot of fun when I only have the emergency brake

The Plymouth I built was my 57 Plaza. I stuffed and old Hemi with Tri-Power and a 4 speed in it to drive to Tulsa to see them dig up the Buried Plymouth last year. You might recognize the hood scoop on it (hint…. it came off the same car your working on).

As far as the Tri-Power intakes go, the 61-63 Birds had the engine sitting fairly level (but they still use the spacer to finish leveling the carb on the single 4BBL versions. The Tri-Power intakes sit level with all the carbs at the same height. They are also a VERY low rise style in order to have sufficient air cleaner clearance (as it is the air cleaner actually sits up in the hood scoop.

On the full size cars like my 64 the engine actually tilts back at a pretty good angle (if you look closely at some of the pictures in the other post you can actually see this). The Tri-Power intakes for these cars were a high-rise version and the height of the carbs was higher in the rear than the front plus the bases were also slightly angle milled (if memory serves correctly). Basically even though the engine was not level on the full size cars the carbs and air cleaner gave the illusion that it was. A T Bird tri-power can be used on the full size cars (the floats may have to be adjusted down a bit) but the full size car version will not allow the hood to close if used on a Bird.

That Plymouth is FABULOUS.....

Coincidently, Christine was on TV tonight............one of my favorite movies of all time.

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Coincidently, Christine was on TV tonight............one of my favorite movies of all time.

Don

Da Dana na na bomp Bad to the bone.....

Is that Plymouth the same year Vic Morrow drove as a bad cop in the
movie California Kid with Martin Sheen.
Kurt

Thanks for the info on the carb set ups. Much appreciated. LOVE your Plymouth. What a neat combo having the Hemi in it with a stick! That was a 57 in the California Kid movie. (Pic Below) I know from reading your thread that you were not building a "Christine" clone, but that red and white look fabulous! That Thunderbird scoop looks right at home there, absolutely like it grew there. Awesome car.

Today Don and I started to disassemble the 390 engine he bought. Supposedly, it came from a '68 Galaxy, and when we got inside it there was quite a bit of sludge, but only marginal wear on the cylinder walls. We had to wrap up early because he had to go to play tonight, so we didn't get it down all the way. We did pull one rod cap and one main cap, and the bearings and crank journals look turnable. No scoring on at least those two.

As he and I have mentioned, we know zero about FE Ford motors, never played with one at all, so we are starting to gather information and learn. One thing that puzzled us was the lack of engine numbers, and also that the sides of the block have ribs and three holes on each side like the crossbolted main cap versions. There are no crossbolted mains, just the beginnings of holes. Maybe Ford puts these on all 390 blocks in anticipation of doing some crossbolted? The ribs are the puzzling part, we thought only HiPo engines had these.

The pistons are pretty flattopped, with only eyebrows for the valves, and are showing signs of detonation. Not bad, but noticeable. I am thinking this one might be the 10.25 to 1 ratio engine because of the flatness and the fact it was pinging evidently. (maybe trying to run on regular grade gas?) It had a two barrel manifold on it, which is also puzzling, in light of flattopped pistons.

Soooooo, we need some of our FE guys to enlighten us on these motors. We bought a Ford Hi Performance manual for these, but it is pretty vague with respect to identifying them. What it tells us we should be looking for numberwise does not show up on our motor...........we see no numbers at all, except for the 352 that all FE motors had, and the DIF for the foundry.

Thanks for any info you guys can give us. We will haul it to the machine shop for the usual stuff, (nothing exotic), like an overbore, line bored, decked, tanked, cam bearings, freeze plugs, etc. It will get a mild cam too, nothing too radical.

Here are some pictures of the ribs I am talking about.

Don

I always liked that on the front of my 428's block when I was running L/sa in AHRA back in 73...It also was an easy sell for street racing...

Don Jr,
I have missed this thread some how, how nice to see your project. After watching your roadster being built I'm sure this will turn out very nice also. With the help you have on the side lines it will be a real fun car when finished.
I won't be able to contribute much, I know nothing about the Thunderbirds. But I sure will enjoy watching.
Ken
P.S. Any chance of bringing your brother over from the dark side of forums?
Ken