Just to keep you guys in touch with reality, we are paying $9 a gallon (US gallon) over here in UK
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Just to keep you guys in touch with reality, we are paying $9 a gallon (US gallon) over here in UK
Rick b -
Thanks for the heads up, now I am really depressed.:( A few years back we were paying less than $2 and you were paying about $5. Now we are at $4 and you are at $9. Based on that info, when we hit $9 you will be at $20.:eek:
When it gets to be $9 here, my sedan will be stripped of it's wheels, and powertrain and converted into a driving simulator for neighborhood kids who otherwise will never see or own a hot rod.:CRY: Might as well get some use out of it; won't be able to afford to drive it.:CRY: :LOL: :LOL:
I feel for you folks, that's just down right CRAZY :whacked:
In the St Louis, Mo area it's right around $3.87-$4.09 so I feel lucky comparing it to your prices....joe
Yep, we Americans have enjoyed cheap gas for much longer than lots of places.
I watched a very disturbing show on the History Channel yesterday about oil. It said since the 1800's when we started to use oil we have consumed something like 100 trillion barrels of it, and the experts feel there are only about 100 trillion left in the ground throughout the world. The problem is, we are consuming fuel at a much higher rate than we did for the first 100 years or so, meaning at some point it will run dry.
We humans have become totally dependent on gas and oil for everything from heating out homes to running our cars. Even farmers rely on fuel to plant and harvest the food we eat, and then to transport it to our tables. As the cost goes up and the availability runs low, the quality of life we live is bound to change. The one bright side is that these higher fuel costs will force us to start conserving and spur the development of alternative energy sources.
I really wonder what discussions all of us will be having 10 years from now relative to our love of the automobile? I bet they are very different from the ones we are having today.
Don
You got that right don! I have already been thinking of other ways to build a hot rod. Pretty soon just the small trips to daytona are gonna be too pricey for most too make.
John, I've seen some posts where attendance at some shows is already dropping. I bet there are a lot fewer vendors at Daytona next November, and maybe less cars too.
Don
The major difference between the UK and US fuel prices are taxes, they've always been higher than we are. Something to think about; Europeans as a whole have paid higher fuel prices than we have for decades, they were at, say $4.50, long before we were, and it didn't ruin their economy. Ours has done better because the extra dollars we had available were put to good use in the private sector rather than underutilized by government bureaucracies.
Another lesson is that higher fuel prices won't lead to drastic changes in energy sourceing, until they get REALLY high, probably something like $15-20 dollars in todays value. Doubt that? Look at the situation where the prices have been higher. They still use essentially the same fuel mix we do. Sure, in Europe they have small vehicle size, and higher average fleet fuel economy, and employ more diesels, but not significantly different that us. The diesel picture will change now that government mandating (there it is again) of lower sulphur levels has accelerated the cost of diesel beyond that of gasoline.
The basic problem today is too many people believe there is some miracle behind a curtain somewhere that will magically pop out and end the era of petroleum. There are lots of theories about what it will be; solar, biofuels, wind, whatever. But the root problem is they all cost WAAAAYYYYY more in energy unit cost..........petroleum is mega cheap by comparison. And misinformation, or should I say incomplete information abounds. We've already seen that our government mandates on biofuels have impacted food pricing.................making significant amounts of motor fuel out of food should have been seen as a foolish idea just on it's face. Both wind and solar people make claims that they are now much more price competitive...........what they fail to mention is that in order to get to that closer position they are calculating in federal subsidies they get. Neat deal for the consumer, you get to pay out of two pockets instead of one, and since the subsidy comes from tax payments it's not linked in your mind to the unit cost of fuel/energy. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
The term for "running out of oil" is "peak oil". The theory being that we've hit the peak on available supply and we're on the down hill slope on available reserves. BTW, someone, somewhere has been predicting peak oil each year for the past 100 years, often with very authoritative looking/sounding analysis. Somehow though, with improve geological search techniques, improved drilling and pumping techniques, and higher capital investments (what the oil guys do with thoses so called "windfall profits") more previously undiscovered/unaccessible sources of crude keep turning up. Then there's the whole tar sands, shale, coal liquification thing that could contribute several TRILLION more gallons potentially. And all that produces a product that we can distribute through existing infrastructure (try and do that with hydrogen and you'll see why that's a major pipe dream).
Either petroleum needs to get SO expensive that it catches up with the alternatives (something you won't like very much once you realize the true cost), or we get serious about producing more oil, which our current congress, and if polling is correct the next one only moreso, won't do. That's a really good plan............let the rest of the world enjoy comparatively cheap energy while we hamstring ourselves and reduce our economy to match the third world.............that's one way to level the playing field.
I'm with you on that one, like when cigarettes hit 50 cents I said I was going to quit but for real when they hit $1.00 I said it again. Then my back, Dr. opened me up and said I had black spots on my lung that was enough. If gas goes that high here the mice can have plenty of homes I will quit driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar34
If anyone one watched nightline last night they would have seen Oil City, Pa. that's where it all started. Almost 150 years ago they said oil was $20 a barrel that would be the equivalent too $600 today. The bottom fell out and went too 10cents a barrel they stopped drilling. I believe this Country still has plenty of oil.
Richard
North Dakota: The new Saudi Arabia?Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2custom
Heck, as per Joe's link and the local news last night, the oil wells in NW South Dakota will pump oil at record levels this year, and the permit applications for new wells is way up also.... The county where the new refinery is scheduled to be built approved the site and the permit to build by a whooping 80% in favor.....
The world isn't going to stop turning just cuz of high prices on oil.... Life style adjustments will have to be made, for sure...
Just for a bit, lets look at some POSITIVE things that rising fuel prices will bring about.....
Maybe people will actually plan and combine....or maybe eliminate all the bs trips...Maybe give a neighbor a ride to the mall so you can have a bit of help with the fuel cost??? Statistics show that kids are overweight and lazy (got 2 of them statistics living here), maybe they'll have to walk or ride a bicycle and actually get out of the house and get some exercise!!!!
We run the race cars on E-90---not to save the world or stop the US dependancy on foreign oil, but just because it's here, it has 108 octane, and for some unknown (to me) reason it yields more consistent passes at the digs.....
Maybe people will actually have to THINK and resolve some issues on their own instead of waiting for the flippin' gov'munt to fix everything!!!!!
The history of Hot Rodders and Hot Rodding is that we, as a group and/or as individuals have learned to take what is available and modify it so it works for our situation.... Guess I don't see where this ALLEGED fuel shortage is going to be any different....
Maybe our government is totally out of touch and ineffective, but I'll be danged if I'm going to sit around and feel sorry for myself just cuz gas costs a few bucks more per gallon!!!! As with anything that is expensive, I'll just learn to use it a bit more wisely then I have..... Buck up, Hot Rodders, this ain't nothing but another obstacle and somehow we'll get around it, go over it, duck under it, or just flat kick it the hell out of the way!!!!!!
I really wonder what discussions all of us will be having 10 years from now relative to our love of the automobile? I bet they are very different from the ones we are having today.
Don, you asked what we may be talking about in the next ten years. I will go out on a limb and say rickshaws. It could be Club Hot Rod Rickshaws Brent could add one more R. If by then we could all move to Florida. Nice weather we could race year around.:)
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2custom
Well, not me!!!! If I'm even alive then, I'll still be out in the shop building a go fast machine or two!!!! Might be powered by something other then one of my trusty Big Blocks, but it'll still be low, kewl, shiny, and fast....
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
When Henry Ford built his first car, it would run on anything flammable. Cuba has been running cars for years without parts and making there own. I wonder if they make their own fuel too.
I wonder how much fuel we export and what they charge foreign customers. I know that government entities pay a much lower rate. During the first fuel shortage, which was artificial, and gas went to .65 a gal, the local PD was paying .18 a gal.
We're just a touch over $4. USD for 87 octane here in Kingman, Arizona.
If I remember the figures from tonights newscast correctly, taxes on one gallon of gasoline are just under a dollar.
Fwiw - my little brother used to work in the oil industry and about 15 years ago they were saying within the industry that at the present rate of use, the US had a 2000 year supply of natural gas.
Plus, it runs cleaner and creates less smog.
Have to talk to one of those multi-million dollar pay oil co. CEOs to find out why we're not running natural gas in our cars.
And, there are some scientists who think that the earth has more oil than is said.
It tends to replenish itself albeit slowly, but there are some oil fields that were considered dry or economically unviable that are pumping oil once again.
The Abotic Oil theory if I remember correcty.
Don, you asked what we may be talking about in the next ten years. I will go out on a limb and say rickshaws. It could be Club Hot Rod Rickshaws Brent could add one more R. If by then we could all move to Florida. Nice weather we could race year around.:)
Richard[/QUOTE]
Richard, we here in Florida have taken to the streets to protest all of this and do all we can to help!!!! :eek: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Don
That is interesting, I wish some one on this site had seen Nightline last night on NBC. In the mid to late 1800's Oil City, sprung up like a gold town in the old west. There were so many oil rig's set up you couldn’t go 20 feet in any direction by the looks of the pictures. I did a search on Oil City, Pa. but they didn't have the picture I wanted to see. When the price fell to 10 cents a barrel it was no longer worth it. A guy in that area is getting two barrels a day at $140 a barrel from a set up his grandfather used 100 years ago. The oil still has to be there and they will probably start when the price is so high or levels off to the point that the oil companies would see the benefit of setting up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2count
Richard
Don, I just hit the button and your post came up I thought scrolling up from the bottom WTH! I thought my computer had been taken over. I was relieved and I think my wife is thinking I'm crazy for laughing. I have a big grin on my face. That is funny.
The democrates want to increase taxes on oil companies, what do you think they will do when taxed? Pay it or pass on the burdon of higher taxes to the pump! If they get taxed the cost of fuel will go even higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2custom
We'll be doing the same thing we are now, driving our hot rods but paying a higher price for fuel. Remember, Europe is paying close to $10 a gallon :eek: && the hot rodders over there are still driving thier cars/trucks. They might not be doing it as much as they did 5yrs ago, but they are still cruz'n around in "Old US Iron".....joe
You don't have to speculate, this was done before in 1980. It led to a reduction in production and allocation of fuel to the marketplace. Since this is a tax on profits it's more difficult to "pass it on", so they reduce their tax burden in other ways. Once the tax was recinded the production rate went up and the prices went down. Duh! There's an old adage in politics; subsidize what you want to encourage, tax what you want to discourage. Of course politicians will deny the negative outcomes as being the result of their actions, just as they deny their obstruction of expanded exploration and production of our own resources as contributing to today's market problems. However, they are effective scapegoat artists and pass the blame onto "big oil". Sadly they have enough party loyalists they are able to get away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by chevydrivin
Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it........ Don't remember who said that, but it seems like we're caught up in it again......
It's not this party or that party causing problems, it's the whole dang system!!!!!! The oil producing companies are the one's making the big bucks on fuel..... The oil companies are taking care of their stockholders.... As others have also said, if most companies had to operate on the same margin as the oil companies they'd be broke in 6 months...... For a shop to make money, the markup has to run at least 22%, last I heard the oil companies run around 7%....
It's just the old blame game....Peolple just point fingers and don't really want to do a dang thing about the problem.... If this country would voluntarily cut their consumption and encourage (subsidies, less restrictive laws) US oil production the old law of supply and demand would take effect.... It's what controls pricing in other companies, the oil companies could only respond the same way.....
PS---Yes, Uncle Bob, I know that running ethanol in the drag cars doesn't do anything but give me warm fuzzies (and 3 wins, 2 runner-ups this year) but I like warm fuzzies....Heck, I even walk to work---just don't tell anybody it's 20 paces out the back door!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Dave, Not trying to change the subject but do you have any pictures of your car at the racetrack? Maybe start another thread about racecars if there isn't one here already, and if so try to add some if you can.
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2custom
Kewl!! Yeah, if anyone is interested in them, I'd be glad to do up some pics!!! I actually built the Comet in about '97 so it's got a bunch of time on it, the 'Bird has only been running for 3 years now... But yeah, I'll get some more recent shots (everything I have is old film photos) and be glad to post them.....
I have a bunch of pictures of what will be the "next one" in my gallery, it's a '67 Ranchero.... Trying to move up a class or two with it....Build delayed for time and money!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
If I have to build a 1200 lb hotrod powered by a hopped up motorcycle engine just to be able to afford to drive it, so be it. They aint stoppin me that easy! Say, that's not a bad idea!:3dSMILE:
There used to be a company out of Reno Nv. that made a 3/4 size T bucket kit that used a variety of inline 4 cylinder motorcycle engines for power. They didn't sell many.....................but timing is everything. Wonder if they still have the tooling?:HMMM:
The fuel prices are always higher in the U.K. because they have a fantastic public transit system. You can grab a bus or subway ride to almost anywhere in the main population areas. Alot fewer people buy fuel because most of them do not drive to work, or to go out on the town. So they charge more for fuel to those who do drive to even out the profits world wide. But for those who struggle to get by and have a hot rod, Im sorry for your fuel prices!
It's the perfect time for a company like that to make some bux, Bob. If I could build something like that or like the pictures I posted and get 50mpg, I'd use it for an everyday commuter in a minute. The top one is a glass body and tube frame powered by a 1100cc Kawasaki engine. You can still buy plans for it for $100.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter
Don wrote:Don, attendance was down 17% from last year at the NSRA York Nats East. Some may have been due to the hot as hell weather (heat index 103 for 5 days), but I think alot was due to the gas prices/economy. As to the vendors, quite a few from the western states and the southeast were no shows, incuding California Car Cover which has been there almost from inception.Quote:
John, I've seen some posts where attendance at some shows is already dropping. I bet there are a lot fewer vendors at Daytona next November, and maybe less cars too.
I might have to resurrect my motorcyles from their long term storage and start going to motorcycle events again. The hotrods are becoming kind of expensive to take even on short trips.:eek: :CRY:
Bob wrote:At my age and size, I'm going to need something bigger than 3/4 size.:LOL: :LOL: Even the full size are a ltitle tight.:( To save weight I wonder if they can build them out of papiermache?:eek: :LOL:Quote:
There used to be a company out of Reno Nv. that made a 3/4 size T bucket kit that used a variety of inline 4 cylinder motorcycle engines for power.
I don't know if this is factual or not, but it seems that I see people driving more slowly these days. I had to run to Cape Coral today and normally on the four lane trip people are going well over the 55 mph speed limit, but no one was passing anyone. I was going 55 and all the other traffic seemed to be doing that or less.
I know I drive with my dashboard fuel monitor on all the time now and really pay attention to what it is reading at any given speed. Maybe these prices will make people think twice about burning fuel needlessly by speeding.
Don
When they made us slow down to 55 most of us didn't like it but it did save fuel. We could do that to help.
Richard
Don wrote:It's true, Don, including yours truly. My drive to work is 42 miles one way (I 83). Just a month ago, average speed on the rural section of the interstate was just under 85 mph, including the SUV's, Prius', and the Semi's. And me:D Seems like at least 30% of the traffic is now running about 70 or less and many including the big rigs are doing the legal limit of 65. There are still a lot of zoomers out there in their SUV's, PU's, and little tiny cars, but their numbers are shrinking. I was an 80 - 85'er, but now I'm going 65 - 70. Not easy to do, but I'm saving my gas money for my fun things.:DQuote:
I don't know if this is factual or not, but it seems that I see people driving more slowly these days.
Richard - It wouldn't surprise me if Congress put the double nickel back in again. Many ignored it last time and will again unless the troopers step up their actions.
I believe we are paying about the same , if you look at the exchange rate on the us dollar. but i could be wrong.
I know cousin Severson likes to pretend that party affiliation doesn't matter (on occasion I agree, but not on this issue), but a House Subcommittee voted on party lines today to kill an amendment that would allow oil exploration off our coasts between 50-200 miles off shore..........FITFTY MILES......BTW, the Chinese are drilling 50 miles off the coast of Florida on behalf of the Cuban govt, and with todays sideways drilling technology what would you bet they'll probably be drilling under Miami.
Since most people now see commodity speculators as having a big part in keeping oil prices elevated it is instructional to understand what they speculate on. In this case it's that oil supplies will remain constricted, thus keeping demand ahead of supply, the price varying depending on how many investors think how much and how long those conditions will prevail. If this country said "enough..........we're going to go full bore on producing every drop of domestic oil we can" the speculators would "panic" and start unloading their positions, even though there's obviously going to be some ramp up time to actual production. Right now, the speculators are betting that obstructionists in our Congress will continue to pander to their special interest lobbyists (tree huggers of all varieties), and so far they've been right. Meanwhile the obstructionists continue to blame anyone but themselves............and too many of our citizens let them get away with it.
Thank you.
We can't buy a tomato today in our stores. Last year it was spinach. Recall meat, I'm a vegetarian I don't have to worry about recalled meat but I eat vegetables, and dairy. As a kid I don't remember our food being something we had to worry about. Our kids, or grandkids can't have toys without lead paint. Toothpaste with antifreeze, maybe gasoline is not our biggest problem!!
Richard
Well, this morning I see where better writers than me (and one that's at least as cranky) feel pretty much the same;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1213...w_and_outlooks
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1213...ays_columnists
[QUOTE=Bob Parmenter]I know cousin Severson likes to pretend that party affiliation doesn't matter (on occasion I agree, but not on this issue), but a House Subcommittee voted on party lines today to kill an amendment that would allow oil exploration off our coasts between 50-200 miles off shore..........FITFTY MILES......BTW, the Chinese are drilling 50 miles off the coast of Florida on behalf of the Cuban govt, and with todays sideways drilling technology what would you bet their probably drilling under Miami as we speak.
QUOTE]
It's not that I feel party affilitation doesn't matter anymore Uncle Bob.....It's just that I now longer see a party I could affiliate myself with.....
IMO the two parties are so damn busy fighting for supremacy and blaming the other party for the problems we now have that absolutely nothing gets done, good or bad!!!!!! Our two party system these days makes about as much sense and accomplishes as much good as rival gangs fighting for turf.... Maybe gang warfare is more effective, if they keep shooting each other maybe we run out of gang members!!!!! Politics is nothing more or less then a power struggle. Whoever controls the White House and the Congress rules with about the same intelligence and mindset as a playground bully in elementary school.....
As for the speculators, as you well know I'm certainly no financial genius, money is just a way of keeping score... I actually take more interest in the standings at the drag strip.... However, I will have to admit that because of my Dad's insistence back in the days that I could actually work hard and generate a decent income I've been fortunate the some investments (and yes some oil company stocks) have done and continue to do very well!!! Maybe I'm part of the problem, too. But occasionally I have to look out for me!!!!
and, don't even get me started on our "unbiased" media..... They really suck!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter
Both very good articles!!!! My question would be this.....What the heck are the Feds doing even involved in these issues??? Whatever happened to states rights???? Personally, I hope Brazil is very successful in their development of these new oil finds.... I'd really like to sit on the beach in Rio and see the oil derrecks offshore just pumping out the oil.... Maybe such a find and the resultant upswing of the Brazilian economy would actually serve to WAKE PEOPLE UP in this country....
Want to stop the party fighting and have a Congress that could actually accomplish something?? The first two steps are up to the voters::::
1. Impose term limits on Congress just as we did for the President so many years ago.
2. Vote in some independents who will be accountable to the people and not to the PAC that owns them....
With a little persistence, maybe the rest of the solution would fall into place!!!! When Congressmen's main concern is job security, nothing gets done...
Maybe seeing Chinese and/or Cuban flags flying on oil drilling platforms 60 miles off of the southern coast might wake up a few of the dimwitted people in Congress. Maybe they will want the US to get it's fair share of the oil before China and Cuba suck it dry.
Or maybe Congress won't wake up until they see the gleaming reflection of the sun off the Cuban/Chinese missiles on those platforms. Wouldn't surprise me if the missiles weren't there with in 6 weeks after drilling commences.:eek:
Too many people in the Federal government asleep at the switch for my liking.:mad: