37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

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Originally Posted by IC2

Music - but you're a young guy and can like the newer stuff by the one hit wonders you never hear from again but us OF's like the older music that you can dance to and remember "interesting" times. I do like most C&W both old style as well as new, absolutely hate rap/hip hop. I even like some of the '80 and '90s head bangin' stuff

And yeah, I knew it was a 5.0/302 - but remember, OF and memory losses.....:CRY: 7000 views - and it's you and me plus now Mike joining our thread

Lottery - my wife's single vice - her subscription to the lottery. Winning that would mean that she would retire a lot sooner then year end. She is ahead on the Win For Life, but only enough to pay for lunch and another ticket. Me, no luck - ever.

Not sure I'd paint it with the engine in place - I'd also blow it completely apart as well so all of the sills, posts, nooks, crannies and corners are painted the new color - but that's up to you and what your painter can do. Lots more work to get it to that point.

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HMmmmmm... does OF = Old Fart? If so, how old is old fart? rofl..

7K views,, Dave & Randy you guys have been busy!

I gave up on the state lottery, I would have the same results if I just tossed the money out the window. I couldn't pay enough to win!

Paint. That's a whole new learning experience for me. I've got a way to go before I get serious about it. (I hope).

I ordered the rear window regulator and handle with a couple of small related parts. I want to have the rear window operate since the body has the provisions for it. I also figured the rear window would be easier to do first then I would tackle the doors. Spoke to Bill I think at Spadaro's, says my order should go out tonite!

Music. I'm usually listening to "classic rock". But I enjoy it all except that rap is missing the "C"! LOL...

Hey Guys, this car just keeps getting taken further apart.....LOL! Of course the goal is to get it ready for media blasting. I'm trying to get some of the modifications done first so it's less time blasting on areas that will be cut out anyway.
I removed the rear fenders, gas tank, etc this week which created more projects. The first pic is the rear spring hanger that has been under the car for years. I think it came from a 63 Ford or something. When mounting the 9" back in the day, we had access to a little salvage yard and used what we could make work. My dad welded about a foot of 3/16 or 1/4 angle iron on the ends of the frame rails and bolted these hangers to it. They've worked fine however I've never liked them to hang down so far. I don't want to buy a whole new rearend mounting kit so I think I can bend these hangers out flat and mount them so the spring shackle runs up from the spring instead of down. That should make them less visible under the car.

I also plan to modify the wheel tubs since you can see in the pic there are some tire rubbing issues on the inside......and that's with my old tires which were 235/70/15's. These new ones are wider and with weight on the car they will rub more. I can buy the pre-made wheel tubs but I'm working on an idea that should be quite a bit cheaper and the end result should look just as good. I'll keep you posted on that one as it develops.....

Hope you guys have had a good week!
Later,
Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Hey Guys, this car just keeps getting taken further apart.....LOL! Of course the goal is to get it ready for media blasting. I'm trying to get some of the modifications done first so it's less time blasting on areas that will be cut out anyway.
I removed the rear fenders, gas tank, etc this week which created more projects. The first pic is the rear spring hanger that has been under the car for years. I think it came from a 63 Ford or something. When mounting the 9" back in the day, we had access to a little salvage yard and used what we could make work. My dad welded about a foot of 3/16 or 1/4 angle iron on the ends of the frame rails and bolted these hangers to it. They've worked fine however I've never liked them to hang down so far. I don't want to buy a whole new rearend mounting kit so I think I can bend these hangers out flat and mount them so the spring shackle runs up from the spring instead of down. That should make them less visible under the car.

I also plan to modify the wheel tubs since you can see in the pic there are some tire rubbing issues on the inside......and that's with my old tires which were 235/70/15's. These new ones are wider and with weight on the car they will rub more. I can buy the pre-made wheel tubs but I'm working on an idea that should be quite a bit cheaper and the end result should look just as good. I'll keep you posted on that one as it develops.....

Hope you guys have had a good week!
Later,
Randy

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Randy,
You are getting closer and closer to that "frame-off" condition:LOL:

Sounds like you and Dick Spadaro or the guys at Chassis Engineering might be getting to be good friends with your credit card.

http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page7.html

Why not, as long as you are at this point, and the amount of work you have in the car in the last year or so, look into a coil over spring/shock arrangement. More time and only more money:eek: , but you will solve the low hanging spring problem, but of course you will have to modify the rear end housing with some weld-on brackets and add another cross member to the frame.

Not sure that straightening out that hanger wont destroy it molecularly - these were extremely 'springy' and actually were an active part of that vintage car suspension. I had a '63 406ci XL that I reversed the way the hanger/spring were installed - that is, hung the spring below the eye. I changed it back after a day or so, but do remember that this hanger flexed a lot, and was most likely spring steel. Another way is to drill a hole in the frame, install a bushing and sleeve and run strap hangers down to the spring eye.

Don't know what to say about the tire rub - I'd look into other ways then a new wheel well - but it does look close. Will some heat and massaging with a large hammer work - it does look close. New wheels with a different offset or maybe just a spacer? Of course that might bring the tire out to rub the fender.

Me, I stared at my cars' chassis for an hour yesterday - nothing, unfortunately, changed during that time:whacked:

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Originally Posted by IC2

Randy,
You are getting closer and closer to that "frame-off" condition:LOL:

Sounds like you and Dick Spadaro or the guys at Chassis Engineering might be getting to be good friends with your credit card.

http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page7.html

Why not, as long as you are at this point, and the amount of work you have in the car in the last year or so, look into a coil over spring/shock arrangement. More time and only more money:eek: , but you will solve the low hanging spring problem, but of course you will have to modify the rear end housing with some weld-on brackets and add another cross member to the frame.

Not sure that straightening out that hanger wont destroy it molecularly - these were extremely 'springy' and actually were an active part of that vintage car suspension. I had a '63 406ci XL that I reversed the way the hanger/spring were installed - that is, hung the spring below the eye. I changed it back after a day or so, but do remember that this hanger flexed a lot, and was most likely spring steel. Another way is to drill a hole in the frame, install a bushing and sleeve and run strap hangers down to the spring eye.

Don't know what to say about the tire rub - I'd look into other ways then a new wheel well - but it does look close. Will some heat and massaging with a large hammer work - it does look close. New wheels with a different offset or maybe just a spacer? Of course that might bring the tire out to rub the fender.

Me, I stared at my cars' chassis for an hour yesterday - nothing, unfortunately, changed during that time:whacked:

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Hey Dave,
You're probable right about straightening that spring hanger. I just can't "spring" for the coil over/shock thing right now! LOL! Drilling thru the frame is certainly an option I'll explore tho. I've seen that done and it would probably help a little with ride height.

As for the wheel tubs, that pic is a little deceiving because the car isn't close to ride height and the wall of the tub angles to the outside of the car, thus, the lower it goes the closer to the tire it gets. Go around a corner, hit a bump and it's a rub. The rear of the car has to be lower. As you can see in this attached pic it's gotta come down at least 2-3 inches. I've been studying wheel tub modification and if the wall of the wheel tub is perpendicular to the frame rails, there would be no real chance of tire rub. The way I've seen it done, the structural integrity of the body is probably enhanced in the process. I can only space the wheels out about 1/2" more before I have fender rub on the outside. Anyway, the ideas are still whirling around in my head. As always, I really appreciate your input!!!

I understand that "staring at your chassis for an hour" thing! It may seem like nothing's happening but in the long run it effects change......taking time to ponder is where seeds of creativity seem to sprout.....ok, I'm done being philosophical for today.....LOL!

Talk soon.
Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Hey Dave,
You're probable right about straightening that spring hanger. I just can't "spring" for the coil over/shock thing right now! LOL! Drilling thru the frame is certainly an option I'll explore tho. I've seen that done and it would probably help a little with ride height.

I understand that "staring at your chassis for an hour" thing! It may seem like nothing's happening but in the long run it effects change......taking time to ponder is where seeds of creativity seem to sprout.....ok, I'm done being philosophical for today.....LOL!

Talk soon.
Randy

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Randy, I've been thinking about your dilemma for a day now and here's my two cents. I would have a plate the width of the frame by 20:25% longer than the width of 3/8" or even thicker, to which I'd add a piece of roundstock with a hole of appropriate dimension to accomadate a through bolt and bushings that could be added either above or below the bottom of the frame.

To this you could acquire a simple shackle arrangement to fasten to your springs. This may also remove a certain amount of spring flex and ease your rubbing tire issues... Well, it's an idea!

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Originally Posted by 34_40

Randy, I've been thinking about your dilemma for a day now and here's my two cents. I would have a plate the width of the frame by 20:25% longer than the width of 3/8" or even thicker, to which I'd add a piece of roundstock with a hole of appropriate dimension to accomadate a through bolt and bushings that could be added either above or below the bottom of the frame.

To this you could acquire a simple shackle arrangement to fasten to your springs. This may also remove a certain amount of spring flex and ease your rubbing tire issues... Well, it's an idea!

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Hey Mike,
Thanks for your two cents. I've been contemplating the same thing and come to a similar conclusion. If installed above the bottom of the frame, which is what I'd prefer, it will have to be removable in case the gas tank ever needs to come out. The only problem is that these springs are only 2" wide and the frame rail is thicker than that I think plus these springs are approximately 50" long and most of the kits that you buy use 48" springs. I may have to switch them out....

As for the tire rubbing, I don't think that will fix it. By the time the car has all the weight back in it and is at ride height, the tires will be much closer to the rubbing area shown in the pic. Even a slight amount of body roll or a bump will cause a rub. Solutions are in the works.....

Thanks for your help, man. Anything new on yours?

Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Hey Mike,
Thanks for your two cents.

As for the tire rubbing, I don't think that will fix it. By the time the car has all the weight back in it and is at ride height, the tires will be much closer to the rubbing area shown in the pic. Even a slight amount of body roll or a bump will cause a rub. Solutions are in the works.....

Thanks for your help, man. Anything new on yours?

Randy

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I didn't say it would fix it, Only help with less flexing, once you remove that spring type mount. How about Eaton Spring? Maybe they offer something to help you out? I still like mounting the deal under the frame. Maybe use a mono spring to get a lower ride height!?!?

On mine, I'm waiting for my parts to arrive from Spadaro so I can assemble the rear window. Waiting for a new regulator and handle. I did start to figure out the window mouldings, roughed in the front last night. Gotta do some cutting to get the rear one even close. But I need the regulator in hand so I can plan my cut(s).

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Originally Posted by IC2

Randy,

Why not, as long as you are at this point, and the amount of work you have in the car in the last year or so, look into a coil over spring/shock arrangement. More time and only more money:eek: , but you will solve the low hanging spring problem, but of course you will have to modify the rear end housing with some weld-on brackets and add another cross member to the frame.

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So Dave, sinced faced with the "possibility" of re-hanging my rearend with new springs, etc, I'm open to researching the whole 4-link coil-over setup and doing some cost comparisons. I was looking at the triangulated 4-link on www.heidts.com, which says it needs no panhard bar. I would like to see some installtion pics into a 35-40 frame but haven't found any yet. Even though I'm this close, the body still can't come off because I have no where to put it. If I did this modification I would have to cut out the trunk floor for access and replace it when I'm done. I'm guessing the 4-link setup would be at least $800 w/coilovers plus another $250 for a new trunk floor unless I could salvage the old one. for a new parallel leaf setup from chassis engineering I'd be looking at $500ish for the kit and another $135 or so for the sway bar, basically around $700......hmmmmm......I'm open to discussion....LOL!

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Originally Posted by randyr

So Dave, sinced faced with the "possibility" of re-hanging my rearend with new springs, etc, I'm open to researching the whole 4-link coil-over setup and doing some cost comparisons. I was looking at the triangulated 4-link on www.heidts.com, which says it needs no panhard bar. I would like to see some installtion pics into a 35-40 frame but haven't found any yet. Even though I'm this close, the body still can't come off because I have no where to put it. If I did this modification I would have to cut out the trunk floor for access and replace it when I'm done. I'm guessing the 4-link setup would be at least $800 w/coilovers plus another $250 for a new trunk floor unless I could salvage the old one. for a new parallel leaf setup from chassis engineering I'd be looking at $500ish for the kit and another $135 or so for the sway bar, basically around $700......hmmmmm......I'm open to discussion....LOL!

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Well Randy, it sure does look like that engine overhaul and freshening up is getting more and more complicated. :eek: (and expensive:CRY: )

I'm not a real lover of the triangulated four link - at least not at the stage you are with a car that you will not be able to remove the body. Those inner bars that attach close to the center of the diff housing have to land somewhere - and that somewhere is another cross memberabout 3 or so feet in front of the diff housing. Anything you have there has to be moved - exhaust system, e-brake cables, possibly fuel and brake lines. Their replacements are tough to relocate. There are also 4 brackets that weld to the rear housing If the car was a totally new build, that's possibly the better way. A friend is building a new '32 with a P&J set up - and has complained about this arrangement.

The standard parallel link 4 bar with panhard is much simpler for what you are doing. Only 2 brackets on the rear housing with the panhard bar bolting to the front of the diff center housing(see the picture). A small bracket is welded to the frame. No second cross member. Both have frame brackets that need to be welded on and both have upper shock mounts that need to be welded in place. Mine has a sway bar as well, but really not a necessity.

As far as the trunk floor - good planning and measurements should be able to save the floor - you get a strip of steel, weld to the panel you removed as a flange, drill some holes and and you should be able to bolt back in place - that is, assuming it's still not real rusty or there isn't a hump for the upper shock mount.

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Originally Posted by IC2

Well Randy, it sure does look like that engine overhaul and freshening up is getting more and more complicated. :eek: (and expensive:CRY: )

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Hey Dave,
As usual, a new day give fresh perspective and a new reality check.....LOL!
While it might be cool to convert to one of the 4 bar/coilover rear suspensions, it just doesn't make any practical sense right now. I've been running this current set up for 20+ years with no real complaints other than I don't like the rear spring hangers and the ride height is a little higher than I want. I can remedy both of those by far easier & cheaper methods than replacing the whole thing! Will let you know what I come up with.

It is funny how fixing one then and open the door to a 1000 more! It's just that there are tons of things I've wanted to do to the car for years but since it was all working ok, I just didn't. Now that it's torn apart, it seems like a good time to consider all the changes......hopefully I get it done before the new engine locks up from lack of use.....LOL!

I spoke to your Spadaro buddies again this morning. I was pricing a door bottom repair piece for my drivers door. My dad patched it up years ago but it has a 1/4 or so of bondo in that area and needs to be fixed properly. The lower rear edge of the door was pretty thick and looked pretty stupid to me.....

the story continues......**)

Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Hey Dave,
As usual, a new day give fresh perspective and a new reality check.....LOL!
While it might be cool to convert to one of the 4 bar/coilover rear suspensions, it just doesn't make any practical sense right now. I've been running this current set up for 20+ years with no real complaints other than I don't like the rear spring hangers and the ride height is a little higher than I want. I can remedy both of those by far easier & cheaper methods than replacing the whole thing! Will let you know what I come up with.

It is funny how fixing one then and open the door to a 1000 more! It's just that there are tons of things I've wanted to do to the car for years but since it was all working ok, I just didn't. Now that it's torn apart, it seems like a good time to consider all the changes......hopefully I get it done before the new engine locks up from lack of use.....LOL!

I spoke to your Spadaro buddies again this morning. I was pricing a door bottom repair piece for my drivers door. My dad patched it up years ago but it has a 1/4 or so of bondo in that area and needs to be fixed properly. The lower rear edge of the door was pretty thick and looked pretty stupid to me.....

the story continues......**)

Randy

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Randy,
Looks to me like you have that proverbial tunnel with only a glimmer of light showing at the far end. Whatever you finally end up doing will pay off in personal satisfaction later though. I have this 'argument' regularly with my wife:D .

I'm sure Spadaro appreciates your business - he lives and works in NY's Albany County and in an extremely highly taxed:CRY:school district.

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Originally Posted by randyr

Hey Dave,
As usual, a new day give fresh perspective and a new reality check.....LOL!
I've been running this current set up for 20+ years with no real complaints other than I don't like the rear spring hangers and the ride height is a little higher than I want.

It is funny how fixing one then and open the door to a 1000 more! It's just that there are tons of things I've wanted to do to the car for years but since it was all working ok, I just didn't. Now that it's torn apart, it seems like a good time to consider all the changes......hopefully I get it done before the new engine locks up from lack of use.....LOL!

the story continues......**)

Randy

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Randy, You & I sound like we're at that same point with our builds. I even created a list so I could prioritize what to do next. I really want to get mine on the road this year so I've been working on the things to make it legal, not pretty.. Just Legal. LOL... I've been wrenching on it for 6 years and finally said enough! I wanna drive it! LOL... I figure after I drive it I'll find some things I don't like and it'll be easier to fix it now rather than later.

I am just replying so that I get notices of this thread because I like to see the details of IC2's chassis. I am studying his muffler mounts at the moment. I wish there was a similar thread on steering/header clearance for a SBC in a Model A but I take small comfort from IC2s admission of multiple tries to get just the right fit, so I may expect to make several tries to get plug clearance for the left rear corner of the SBC head as well as clearance to the Vega box cross steering. I think the steering clearance can be settled but the SBC hugger headers really make plug replacement tricky!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Originally Posted by Don Shillady

I am just replying so that I get notices of this thread because I like to see the details of IC2's chassis. I am studying his muffler mounts at the moment. I wish there was a similar thread on steering/header clearance for a SBC in a Model A but I take small comfort from IC2s admission of multiple tries to get just the right fit, so I may expect to make several tries to get plug clearance for the left rear corner of the SBC head as well as clearance to the Vega box cross steering. I think the steering clearance can be settled but the SBC hugger headers really make plug replacement tricky!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Glad to see you post Don. Like you I'm always watching for pics from Irelands Child! ALWAYS has great pics! I'm trying to figure out how to get the tailpipes over or under the rear axle and out the back. And like you my block hugger headers are a b_tch to get some of the header bolts tight but, the plugs aren't bad.

Oh my golly - Don - you finally made it to Randy's and Dave's (and now Mike) mile long thread. Glad to see you here:D .

Mike - life is a lot easier with the exhaust under the axle - especially if you are welding up your own. There are several less bends to cloud the issue and since there really isn't a lot of axle travel, no more chance of hitting it anyhow. Mine with the '32 style tank for sure was a whole lot easier and if you are worried about appearances - you really can't see the tailpipes with the wheel/tire blocking it off.

Header bolts - I'm sure that somewhere way back here I had a post to Randy that I used Breslin Split Lock bolts. I got mine from Summit, kinda expensive, but not much else would fit my Sanderson headers on the GT40P heads. Looks like their website is down due to the owner passing away(too bad - real nice guy to talk to). Percy's appear to be about the samehttp://www.jegs.com/i/Percy's/760/20010/10002/-1

(And no, it's not always this neat - that would be admitting that I had a sick mind)