Hi, im new here and from the UK. Im wondering if anyone knows of any Mazda VVankel Rotary engined Hot Rods?? any pictures? or details?
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Hi, im new here and from the UK. Im wondering if anyone knows of any Mazda VVankel Rotary engined Hot Rods?? any pictures? or details?
This is a hot rod site! Not a fast and the furious car site!
I had a Mazda rotery pickup once. It had a Holly carb and headers and ran like stink. But it spent most of it's time parked next to a gas pump.
I can not recall seeing or reading about a rotary powered hot rod. Certainly an interesting concept. If you have a hankering to build one get at it. We are waiting to see the pictures.
The build cost wouldn't too much but, there anoying 2 strokes ( basicly ) , ineficent and I'v never seen anything Mazda rotary powered other than an RX7 or RX8.
Matt,
Time for school. For their size, they are very efficient. But even better than that, they are smooth. Rotories can come in one to four rotors (race engines) and Mazda won a 24 of LeMans race with this style engine a few years back.
In the early '70's, just about every car sold by Mazda had a rotory in it, including it's pick-up truck. The problem with this engine is that they are not emissions friendly. The best part about these engines, is the few amount of moving parts. It makes these engine almost bullet proof. The only real wear item are the seals.
Baron, most of the cars sold in this country weigh a lot more than what most european cars do. For the simplicity of the rotory, they are better suited to light weight cars, not larger american cars. Even using the twin turbo 255 HP unit out of the 3rd generation RX-7 wouldn't be enough to pull around a 3500 lb car like a big inch V-8.
Now having said that, I've seen Miatas, bugeye (frogeye) Sprites, and few Triumph Spitfires with rotory transplants. Grassroots Motorsports built a rotory powered Spitfire a few years ago that done very well. Here it is.
Swiftster, I hate to argue with you(again), but the rotory has issues. As for as simplicity goes, the rotory is truely for lightweight cars. But their by no means bulletproof. Seems to me that the points on the rotors like to grind off causing poor compression and smoking. As such, their almost useless by 100K. Otherwise, mazda would be Still putting them in its entire product line. As for the wankel powered hot-rods, wouldnt it work to place a rotory in something like a spirit, a mustang, a escort or something else lightweight? Just to be different
Gas mileage on a rotory is poor, and this more than anything else keeps Mazda using this engine in anything but a power ride. I've never heard anything about the rotor tips being worn out, but again, the seals get brittle, leak, and cause lower compression and smoking.
As for transplanting this engine, they've never been used in a FWD application. Without a trans or bellhousing to bolt up to it, a lot of time would be involved in just getting the engine attached to the trans and making sure the axles fit side-to-side.
As for using the Mazda rotory in a Mustang-sized car or similar, it would definitely be different, but with the limited displacement the street engines have, it would make big power without turbos.
Now if you have an older Pinto or Vega (which was originally designed to use a rotory), it would be a dramatic increase over the stock engines. The engine is great for extremely small engine compartments.
Until the fuel crisis of the early '70's, GM had been looking into rotory technology in small and midsize cars. Because fuel economy became an issue, the rotory was shelved in everything (including mainstream Mazdas) but the RX-7.
Perhaps on a reverse of the situation, we are seeing a lot of LS1 aluminum V8s in RX-7s. Weight comes in very similar so they handle well and are wicked fast.
Pat
:LOL: Sorry to utter such blasphemies on your forum, i know that you Americans are rather fond of your home grown V8s... i just wondered if anyone in Hot Rod land had dared to be a bit different... if anyone has they must be hiding in shame.Quote:
Originally posted by broncowheels
This is a hot rod site! Not a fast and the furious car site!
I like Rods a lot, especially the 'American Graffiti' 32 Ford (and similar) look. The chances of me building one at the moment are not good.. young family and all that, its a dream of mine though... maybe one day.
A car like that cant be very heavy, well not until you fit the 454ci V8 anyway ;) The 3 rotor 300bhp engine from the Mazda Cosmo would haul it about without any problem.
I only got to thinking about a Rotary Rod because i ride a Norton Rotary motorcycle. You have to admit, it would stand out as being a bit individualistic.
So! whos going to beat me to it then?
Well, you also have to look at the visual stuff. Would you rather have someone ohhhh and ahhhhh over a V-8 covered in chrome accessories or a rotory?
Of course, one way to look at it is that in a light car like a "T" track car, that rotory will move it down the road as good as a flathead. But it's hard to be nastalgic over "HMMMMMMM". :)
The tips of the rotors have seals. You have to overhaul the engine to replace the seals. This isn't any worse than putting rings in a V-8. Mazda couldn't put rotories in all their cars because the fuel mileage is horrible. Remember, we are in the age of corporate fuel economy. It's a lot easier to sell 25,000 RX-8's with poor mileage when you can offset this with 600,000 6's, 3's and Miatas. The best endourace test I can think of is 24 hours of hard racing. It passed that test. I don't think these engines are any worse than any other engine design.Quote:
Originally posted by drg84
Swiftster, I hate to argue with you(again), but the rotory has issues. As for as simplicity goes, the rotory is truely for lightweight cars. But their by no means bulletproof. Seems to me that the points on the rotors like to grind off causing poor compression and smoking. As such, their almost useless by 100K. Otherwise, mazda would be Still putting them in its entire product line. As for the wankel powered hot-rods, wouldnt it work to place a rotory in something like a spirit, a mustang, a escort or something else lightweight? Just to be different
I agree, putting a rotory in a lightweight car would be different and significantly cut weight compared to a V-8. The AMC Pacer was another car that was originally designed for a rotory. The only problem is that we don't get 3 rotor Cosmo engines. We get two rotor engines with less than 200 HP. While porting the rotors can make significantly more power, it still won't hold up to an LS1 Camaro or a blown 4.6L Mustang. Check out the pictures of the Spitfire I included earlier. It's a nice car, but it only weighs 1500 Lbs.
I must admit, the rotary engine is a strange looking thing but with a freeflowing exhaust they sound fantastic, judge for yourself...Quote:
Originally posted by Swifster
Well, you also have to look at the visual stuff
and It's hard to be nostalgic over "HMMMMMMM". :)
Click here for Norton 588cc Rotary mp3
Abel Ibarra and Flaco Racing, California managed to get hold of one. They have done a 6.79 sec standing start ¼ mile with it at 204mph, not bad for a triple rotor 1962cc (120ci) engine.Quote:
Originally posted by Swifster
The only problem is that we don't get 3 rotor Cosmo engines.
6.79 Seconds at 204 mph !!! :cool:
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2004.../A_Ibarra.html
**Link added by edit AFTER Road Agents posting below**
They reckon its good for a 6.20 and then they will think about building a 160ci four rotor to get into the 5 second bracket!
i'll admit I have thought about it, and i like the idea because you never see anything like that
There's a guy on Volksrods.com that has a 2 lobe roatry in his hot rod beetle. The install isn't the cleanest thing in the world, but by all accounts it screams! Haven't heard anything about it recently, been wondering myself what he's doing with it.
Something I had been hoping for but the EPA shot it down was the original version of the RX8 to hit US shores. The J-spec version is a dream to drive & the power will make ya pucker up! Loads of power from a rotary engine, cleaner burning, more efficinet, it's a great engine! But thanks to the weenies in DC, our US enviro-freindly version is weak.
A rotary would be good in something light & small like a t-bucket. Could be scary fun as well. I remeber driving my dads RX-7 (once & only once) that things was an awesome lil car. He took me out once & we goot rubber in 5 out of 6 gears & we're doin over 120 before we got 6th.
Drop that RX7 drive train in a T & see whatya get, somethin scary fast I'll bet.
Ah! yes, youre talking about the 7.44 @176. That was done with their old RX7 bodied car using a two rotor 1308cc (80ci) engine. An amazing time for such a small engine.Quote:
Originally posted by Road Agent
That isn't what it says on their website:
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2003.../A_Ibarra.html
It looks like they may have gone even quicker now, its been changed to 7.12 at 178 mph.
The 6.79 @204 was in the RX8 bodied car with a three rotor 120ci engine.
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2004.../A_Ibarra.html
Thanks VWstreetrodder, i shall have a look for that :)
:eek: oh my god! LOL... ive just spotted the rice burner threads in the drag racing section. If id seen them first i wouldnt have dared start this thread :LOL:
Found one :eek: It has been done in Australia...
http://www.rotorheads.com/photos/cru...2/gallery5.htm
http://www.rotorheads.com/photos/cru...me2002-108.jpg
http://www.rotorheads.com/photos/cru...me2002-110.jpg
http://www.rotorheads.com/photos/cru...me2002-109.jpg
http://www.rotorheads.com/photos/cru...me2002-102.jpg
I'm with him "Except" for the front suspension, of course it's his car.
he has one and i don't.:confused:
Sorry to drag this up again but i 'saw' (heard) this video and thought of your Hmmmmm comment...Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfHqp...related&search
:D :D :D
Hey can someone photoshop the rod out of the picture so we can see the gal?.lol
That would be a "shiela" in down-under lingo.
OK then! step one buy a hot rod... checkQuote:
Originally Posted by Bib_Overalls
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...orsremoved.jpg
Step two - find a n/a rotary engine... (still looking)
I like the Wankel engine concept, very few moving parts compared to a regular pistion engine. However so far they don't seem to have the longevity as initially assumed. Under most circumstances I wouldn't want one as a daily driver because of their poor gas mileage. The exception to this thought would be if I could have a 3 rotor C111 or the 4 rotor C111-11!!:eek: :eek:
Unfortuanatley they are unavailable at any price. :CRY: But one can always dream.:D:D
As for rodding a Rotary engine, no big deal. They're just another form of power plant like the VTwin, V3, V4, v6, V8, V10, V12, I3, I4, I5, I6, I8,I12 I16 and so on and so forth. Building a hotrod is a personal thing, you should always do what you want and ignore the critics.
BTW, Welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around, our bark is much worse then our bite.
Looks like the same car as above?
Sure sounds dif'ernt.:whacked:
YouTube - Rotary Hotrod
There was a kid in the San Fernando Valley that had an RX-4 (I believe). It was called the "Samurai Warrior". The hood was plexiglas and the entire motor was polished. He used to pick on bbc Chevys while street racing. Uncocked on slicks, that thing sounded like a bunch of angry hornets.
Personal subject to be sure,,myself,not into rotaries at all,sound bad,and gobble gas,,to be found usually in our neck of the woods doing break dancing acts in diesel in an industrial area of any town...But,if you guys look back to the June74 issue of HotRod,you will find the cover car is Andy Brizios twin rotary and auto 32 roadster.Article inside,myself,I prefer the bark of a well modified VW after a v8 of course..:D :rolleyes:
In all honesty, I'm not sure why anyone would riducule your thoughts of dropping a rotary in your ride. Your part of this community no matter what your building or how your building it. As far as fuel effiency, who the #$@$ cares. There are guys dropping big blocks in their rides that are getting 5 gallons to the mile. :D . Do what you want. For me, the alure of dropping a rotary engine would revolve around size of the car and the ease of the transplant. The rotary is a small and neat package. And your project.....a small and neat package. Should work out fine. I may have my hands on a 3 rotor twin turbo out of a 94? RX7 twin turbo. The 3 rotor on the later models is a custom build. I had the pleasure of running the same guy a couple of years ago with my 04 RX8. He literally flew by me like I was tied to a tree. I was going to buy the 3 rotor from him then to drop in the RX8 but decided to just leave the car alone other than adding a Greddy turbo. Instead I will be dropping it in my sons 68 Mark III Spitfire. Size matters especially for my sons project. Man those things are tiny. If that falls through I'll drop something in it like a motor out of a ZX6 or something newer. My Genesis rotary got 16 miles to the galon when it was new and still gets 16 after installing the turbo system. Correct me if I'm wrong.....my 02 LS1/LS6 will be getting close to the same. So for me, it would be about size and weight for a vehicle as small as a Morrison or a Truimph Spitfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVonVankel
I wonder who's going to cuss me now? :D
Dave
Hot rods evolve just like everything else. I like the old lake style hot rod era....but who are we to say that the new modern cars arent modern hot rods? Whether this guy is building a 14-71 blown big block or dropping a 3 cylinder motor in a track T......isnt he still a part of the hot rod community? And quite frankly, there are many innovative veterans of the hot rod community that would be ashamed of your comment. Sorry, I guess I'm unbiased.Quote:
Originally Posted by broncowheels
For what it is worth, I spent a lot of time and a lot of money bringing a 1973 MG Midget from a hulk with a tree growing in it to a 98% restoration. During that progression over about five years I considered replacing the little OHV 4cyl with a rotary engine for the light weight and high rpm potential. I got drawn in to the "Collector Value" of the 1973 model because it was a metal bumper model with rounded rear wheel wells and really looked good, but the expense of maintenance and a number of foibles finally caused me to sell what was a "beautiful headache". So all things considered, you might have an easier time finding a Midget in the UK than in the US and then use that as the body and chassis for what would be a very hot street car. Driving a Midget for five years will enable you to write a scholarly text on "Springs I have seen under large trucks". Most chopped and channeled US early Fords are actually "high" compared to a midget! I have shown this picture before but it shows how low the Midgets are and they are very light so that would be an excellent body for a small rotary engine/motor. The picture was taken quite a few years ago at the Shirley Plantation (Virginia) British Car Day which is an annual event in early Autuum and is a sort of Eastern Concourse for British Cars and there are some really beautiful cars there which I suspect seldom venture outside of a garage except for this event. Many of the British cars have polished Burl wooden dashes which are seldom matched in US rods.
Don Shillady
Retired SCientist/teen rodder
Here s the picture of my former MG Miget. Sorry about the size, I did reduce it by 50% and it did fit into the 390K limit of the Forum.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Don wrote:Quote:
Driving a Midget for five years will enable you to write a scholarly text on "Springs I have seen under large trucks".
Don, I actually thought about doing a similarly themed paper while riding to work in a 1972 Lotus Europa.:eek: :LOL: :LOL:
That sounds interesting, my favourite motor in my favourite car, any chance of scanning it and putting it up on here? Is it in the USA?Quote:
Originally Posted by lamin8r
Ive only found Aussie rotor rods so far, there is also a 34 Chevy having a big turbo 3 rotor put in it 'down under', think hes aiming for about 700 bhp.
In case youre wondering why the obsession? it was the Norton Rotary race bikes in the UK in the late 1980's/early 90's that got me 'into' rotaries.
Thanks for the comments everyone. :)
Can do,will try taking a digital first,see if that works..Sorry to bag your passion,I guess we all have our preferences and mine just isnt rotaries,but I will try not to be so narrow minded,dont like subarus either..:D :D
photos of cover and inside page as promised.
Thanks! so an American beat the Aussies to it way back in the early seventies using engines from an RX2! :cool: I did a search on Andy Brizio and it said that after the twin engined Deuce he also built a 27 using a single RX2 engine.
Back then a lot of people believed that the Rotary would take over from the Piston engine and everyone was working on Rotary projects (including GM with their Rotary Corvettes).
No probs,Baron,its not the thing to do here in NZ,but there is a rotary powered T bucket in the lower half of the North Island,last seen at street drags in Wellington spewing its guts over the track,and copping some very nasty comments as well..I might be biased,and a little narrow minded,but there are far worse down here than me,,a lot of Kiwis wont even have anything to do with volksrods,not that we have too many.
A great many of our number in NZ refuse to remember our roots,sure,there were a lot of old 30s coupes,roadsters and sedans built in the late 50s and raced on the beaches,but a great number of our customs were of course English cars,which we had thousands of,now,not many rodders seem to wish to acknowledge the fact,although we still have a lot of Ford Pops,Anglias to those of you in the States.Its the way of the country I suppose.:confused:
Hello I can't bag on you for wanting to try something different but in my admitadly biased apinion there are so many better options . Here is my Anglia 100e with a fiat twin cam motor and It's a fast little bastard !!! With the added benefit of decent feul milage . Though I did have to install a bigger gas tank as the stock one was very tiny .
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m...1111111041.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m...NE2/aAa004.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m...eestuff001.jpg
Another step closer... i bought a rotten old RX7 and dropped the motor out...
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...nkel/My12A.jpg
[QUOTE=BaronVonVankel]Another step closer... i bought a rotten old RX7 and dropped the motor out...
LOL's. Isn't it incredible how small those things are with respect to a big block American made engine! If not for the mass of assessories in my RX8, it would look fairly similar. Keep going.....you've got the makings of a project now. :D
Dave