Not the answer, Bill.

It looks like anytime any of us disagree with something on here all that you have to do is close that thread, Bill. Some Democracy.:(

You have the buttons to do that, but do you think it answers the questions we were raising about how a vendor can put up ad after ad, clogging the forum? Is this the way it is going to be?

I'm very disappointed in your response to those questions, and I bet some others are too. No matter what spin you and Brent try to put on this, you can't deny participation is down since the change and several long standing members no longer come here at all. Now this latest "vendor" ad torrent really puts salt in the wound.

Shut this one down too , Bill, that will show how much our opinions really count around here.

Don

yep i will go a long with what don said as well as the new screwed up lay out here . i know very well i am not the only one .there is some good guys on here i still like to talk to and help if i can. but you and brent have done a very good job of screwing this place up if that was the goal here? you out done youself

The vendor is a little aggressive and does not know how things work on this forum yet

A PM has been sent to him.

If a vendors posts outside of the classifieds, then that thread gets moved as soon as I see it.

Since the for sale section is not for discussion purposes, the posts were deleted when the post was moved.

Yes,it really is that simple.

Love me or hate me for it, the rules of the classified section are posted in each section.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/parts-sale...uidelines.html

Bill S.

Bill how about a judgement call about the vendor post in the tranny section??.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1gary

Bill how about a judgement call about the vendor post in the tranny section??.

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It appears that nobody had a problem with that post. Which perhaps may have given the vendor a green light to make additional posts in the other forums. Again, I've sent him a PM asking to keep the for sale posts to the classified section.


Bill S.

Edit - I was typing when Bill posted, so this is a bit out of sequence... There have been several posts by the same vendor, but if you look back he started innocent - telling us that they would be at one of the NE shows and inviting anyone attending to stop by, etc, etc. In hindsight that one probably should have been in the vendor section too, but it was a benign post. Over the past week or so his posts changed direction, using the forum sections for blatant advertising. From what I've seen this has been limited to one guy, and Bill's got him in his sites now with a few cleanups yet to finish. I don't envy Bill in his traffic cop position, but I appreciate his actions on this type of thing.

Guys, I feel terrible that folks here are not happy. There is no intention on Bill nor my part to cause problems, concerns, issues, or anything negative. Bill has a difficult job, and its not a paying one. He has donated his time to the cause and has done much to keep things going well around here. He won't always make the exact right decision that makes everyone happy but keep in mind that he's doing the best he can and its for everyone here....He's open to feedback if we make it respectful. Just keep in mind that he has spent many many hours taking care of many things that most will never even notice. He's a valuable contributor and is doing the best he can.

Now for the layout and all the changes I made. My intention was to make the place better in the long run. I had no intention of messing things up, but I apparently did. I sincerely want to make a place for everyone and I want to keep up with the times. I'm regretful of how things went down....I don't know what to say. I made a mistake, but I want to make things right. If this were my full time job I think things would be different, but I, like most everyone else here have to go to work. All I can say is that I will continue to try and make things better here, but I will make big changes with everyones input first going forward.

First of all, let me get out of the way that my rant wasn't directed at you personally, Bill. Although I have never had the pleasure of meeting you I like you and think you do a very good but thankless job here. How you do it I have no idea.

My frustration is that the doors of the forum now seem to have been opened up to anyone who somehow becomes a "vendor" to post as many threads as they want for the sole purpose of listing an item or offering some service. The vendor in question has only 13 posts but 100% of those are advertisements or items for sale. My first question is, "What exactly is a VENDOR?" Is it someone who has paid for that privilage, like a sponsor, or what??????????

The problem becomes, if we let one guy run as many threads selling items as he wants, where does it end? What if we got Charlie Price from Vintage Speed on here, for example.............he sells a zillion items and would be able to run one thread per item. Suddenly any threads we regular members post would quickly be crowded off of the home page and into the archives.

At first I thought this new vendor was a spammer who was uninvited and just here hocking his goods..............but apparently he is INVITED and hocking his goods with the blessings of the Administration. Do you see why we might be upset? I just would hate to see what was once such a strong, wonderful forum become just page after page of advertisements. :(

We've all sort of accepted the recent changes, but this one is over the top IMO.

Don

Brent, sorry, you were posting as I was typing. What is the situation specifically with vendors doing this sort of thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

How you do it I have no idea.

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Plenty of coffee

http://underthegrapetree.com/wp-cont...ltitasking.jpg

And a few extra arms grafted on seems to do the trick :D

Funny, I always envisioned you as a little older ! :LOL::LOL:

Don

I'm thinkin' that "the Minion" is not Mike, but someone he has taken on who is quite aggressive and saw an opportunity to stick his foot in the door, after a fashion, and found that that tactic is still as much frowned upon as it has always been - at least I hope that's what has happened, and that Mike will put a proverbial cork in the bottle before the genie gets any further out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Funny, I always envisioned you as a little older ! :LOL::LOL:

Don

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Yeah, add at least 25 years on to that pictures :D

Here’s my two cents:

My first “exposure” to Club Hot Rod was several years back when I was having a bugger of a problem with a 400 SBC. All of the responses I received were polite and I very much appreciated the attitude shown to me as a new member. I also noticed that there was a ton of experience and knowledge here and as such, I started to “hang out” a bit and contribute when I thought I may be able to add value. It was obvious to me from day one that most people here were my age (some older) and as such, we’re a generation of folks that know how to “get things done” and have experienced enough life to truly understand the meaning of the word improvise. I too really liked the “old format” and found it a bit more friendly but also understand that Bill and Brent are truly volunteers and the switch to vBulletin’s latest generation of forum and community publishing software was necessary to continue to allow CHR to grow without them (Bill and Brent) working on the site 24 x 7. I appreciate all you do and will continue to support your efforts and work within the parameters of what we have. I too miss some of those who have opted out but realize, “you can’t please all the people all the time.”

I also have a great deal of respect for Don, Dave, Jerry, Roger, Gary, Pat, Tech, Barb, (etc), and the whole lot of folks here who post on a regular basis and contribute technical expertise beyond what I would ever be able to assemble on my own. I regularly “cut & paste” from this forum and file in my own technical archives. I’ve encouraged several friends to log on and sign up as this is truly an educational experience and I appreciate the time you all spend here! Of course, if you’re at all like I am, this site also provides you with some good “therapy” in the evening when you unwind and some great humor (not just on the joke page!)

That said – I don’t much care for the “vendor” participation anywhere other than the “for sale” sections. I get blasted all day with emails from people trying to convince me that a real man has 12 inches of hardware or I’ve been identified as the sole-surviving heir to a gazillion dollar fortune in Zimbabwe. If I want to buy something (on CHR or anywhere else) I’ll go to a classified location and begin to search. I have no problem with Bill removing inappropriate posts and honestly, it’s “his call” what should go where.

Contrast this discussion with “Some prayers, please” - nearly 2,000 views and over a hundred responses in eleven days. I have never met Dave face-to-face however; I’ve been galvanized by Dave’s situation and will continue to pray for him and his family. Not too “hot rod” centric, but a very clear picture of the character of those who post regularly on this site. One of the things that make this the best site on the web is the passion with which people here embrace life and the manner in which that passion is reflected in our posts!

Regards All,
Glenn

WOW, Glenn! Very well said! I don't think I could've composed it any better in all my life! Unlike Roger, I struggle for 50 words! I agree completely!

Hi Guys,
My intent here is advertise for Forte's Parts Connection. This is my 30th year in business and have so much to offer. The vendor status is not free and I know that the money is used to keep this forum going. Steve (Forte's Minion) is trying to reach guys that are building cars and have a need for custom parts that I manufacture, Tremec 5 & 6 speeds transmissions (Forte's is one of 11 Elite Dealers for Tremec in the US & Canada).
All of this said, advertising is how I reach customers like yourself and hope to sell parts in a very difficult economy as I know almost everyone is experiencing.
I have been a Vendor here for several years and need to continue sales to be able to continue to advertise here. Honestly, sales do not support the expenses and I need to up sales or stop paying for ads here.
So I guess it's up to you guys, either sales or stop my vendor status which in turn hurts the forum you like. No hard feelings to anyone. I have sold some but it takes volume sales to stay even a business.
Thanks for your thoughts and I'll see how this plays out.

well said glenn. you spoke for alot of us as to how we feel about this site.

Glenn,,what can I say??You said it all...If I was as eloquent as you,,thats probably how it would have come out..Thanks mate..:D

Glenn,
Well said, as usual! Your sentiments ring true for me as well.

Mike Forte,
I speak only for myself when I say that I appreciate you being here and providing occasional input to specific needs of the guys and gals here, and I do not hesitate pushing others to contact you for their transmission needs, and for other performance questions. My initial contact with you was due to a similar recommendation from someone here at CHR, and after an early evening e-mail posting a question about my needs I was surprised to have my phone ring 20 minutes after hitting "Send" (though it was nearing 8pm in Massachusetts), and for you to ask if we could walk through the options to find the "right" answer to my drivetrain needs. We did (after an hour of back & forth), I later bought the package, I've been very happy with it, and both you and Steve (Forte'sMinion) have helped me with smaller needs since. Only in the past couple of weeks Steve's posts have taken an aggressive marketing slant, using what is meant to be a discussion, Q&A venue to advertise specific products, including the most recent "series" explaining custom engine/tranny packages that can be provided. You've never done this before that I have seen. We all understand the impacts of the economy, but we also understand that the "For Sale" section in CHR specifically says "Personal, not for business" and that has not changed. I have no idea what the "vendor" arrangement is, and that's between you and Brent. Bottom line, Forte's Performance is a quality shop, and you and Steve bend over backwards to do right to your customers. I hope this all works out well and we keep seeing your name pop up here in the right ways, as it has in the past.

Glenn, amen, well said. However, I can tell you those ads for the extra hardware don't deliver what they promise! :eek::o:LOL:

Mike, since I was the main complainer about your ads, let me try to explain. We certainly appreciate a vendor kicking in some money to keep the forum going and in turn maybe generate some sales for that vendor. What was at issue though were the 13 separate posts all directed at selling pretty much different items. If every vendor did that there would be no room for normal chit chat among the members. As it is, the threads disappear very quickly from the home page now, and when a big percentage of that real estate is consumed by one vendors ads, it makes the forum unappealing and difficult to use.

To me it was becoming like CraigsList, where one advertiser keeps reposting the same ad every day to keep it on top of the heap. Maybe the solution is to have a setup like the HAMB uses where the classifieds do not become part of the general discussion board, but are only available if someone wants to look at them. It seems our current format puts ads right in with general discussions and consequently they show up as topics of discussion.

Hope this clears the air about my (and maybe some others) concerns.

Don

Mike,

As a penance, and to make right the extra effort I put forth you must now wack Steve across the back of his head with a truly rusty camshaft :D :D :D .........Also, to make up for my lost time, I'll take a nice 347 stroker with a TKO600, that too you can charge back to Steve :D

All kidding aside, I really give you credit for lasting as long as you have in the business, especially with the "virtual" mom and pop shops that spring up from time to time with owners who do not know the difference between a SBC and a SBF. Your experience, knowledge, and wisdom are much appreciated, as is your willingness to share..........

Wish you the best .



Bill S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mike forte

Hi Guys,
My intent here is advertise for Forte's Parts Connection. This is my 30th year in business and have so much to offer. The vendor status is not free and I know that the money is used to keep this forum going. Steve (Forte's Minion) is trying to reach guys that are building cars and have a need for custom parts that I manufacture, Tremec 5 & 6 speeds transmissions (Forte's is one of 11 Elite Dealers for Tremec in the US & Canada).
All of this said, advertising is how I reach customers like yourself and hope to sell parts in a very difficult economy as I know almost everyone is experiencing.
I have been a Vendor here for several years and need to continue sales to be able to continue to advertise here. Honestly, sales do not support the expenses and I need to up sales or stop paying for ads here.
So I guess it's up to you guys, either sales or stop my vendor status which in turn hurts the forum you like. No hard feelings to anyone. I have sold some but it takes volume sales to stay even a business.
Thanks for your thoughts and I'll see how this plays out.

---

most of the site I have visited for various reasons have had ads placed on the top or bottom of the
page. IF you were interested in something or looking for something you clicked on the ad and it took you
to their site. I have never saw a participating vender/sponsor post ads in the open form. like others have
said it clutters up the threads. I guess I have A.D.D because if I have to look through pages and to read the post
I follow I just give up. I am a relatively newbie here and read or look at pictures more than I post.
I understand we all have different views. I hope it all gets worked out and thanks for listening to
me and everyone.

Not just one way or another.We all can find a balanced point in limited space.Quality vendors are very hard to come by.Mike is very hard to track sales due to one ad or a number of them.Could it be a sale occurs to a nonmember from here but was read about peeping and never signing on??.The would be one example of profit never offsetting the cost of being a vendor.The good will is ringing out of all the posts members make given the type of members that make this site what it is and thus sales than could happen as a result of that.Hard pressed to find a thread where the answers where not answered.So Mike I said it is hard to find a good vendor and in the same hand it is very hard to find the mix of members that make this a very good site worth placing ads.Search engines drive sales too and given the exposure and quality posts that happen here,it is no small part of possible sales.

If experience,knowledge,wisdom are appreciated, as is willingness to share----why don't you let DennyW back on here????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

If experience,knowledge,wisdom are appreciated, as is willingness to share----why don't you let DennyW back on here????

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Denny knows why.

My 2 cents. I'm only an avid member when I feel its too hot or too cold to comfortably work in the shop or anything else for that matter. Vendors needling folks for sales disgusts me but I'm not a heartless sap and understand the need for sales. I was on the selling end for a 6 years as a customer service tech for my company (communications) and it quickly became a "sell them anything you can talk them into even if they dont need it" world. I moved into a different position and since then the company is now listening to its techs and its customers.......people dont like being harrassed!!!. I think thats the main point here. This is a place for information, chit chat, and the ocassional banter that comes with hot rods. And I can tell you all though I dont know how others feel about me....I absolutely think the world of the members here! I also have OCD and ADD. I see nothing wrong with a vendor offering support, that may lead to a sale, to a member that has asked a question about something specific. I'm a member of many, many forums from Corvettes, S10, 4X4's, Rat Rods, etc etc and I see this sort of peacefull push toward a product all the time and I see no problem with that.....but it cant be a blatant selling pitch up front. With all the forums I'm a member of.....28 so far.....this site gets 90% of my time when I am surfing forums .....because of its members. I like it here.

Ok...I'll shut up. :whacked:

David

what happened to denny w. is he banned or what. what did he do to get runnoft ?

Oh, oh. I'll get the popcorn ! :)

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Oh, oh. I'll get the popcorn ! :)

Don

---

Yep, here we go again....:LOL::rolleyes::LOL:**)

i missed it. i really want to know.he knows why is not a good answer.

I think DennyW has more info of OEM systems and manuals plus years of ACTUAL experience working on these cars and trucks than anybody here--I believe that no matter whose feathers were wrinkled back then that its time that he was brought back on board for the MEMBERS needing help and with a source of factory specs and methods instead of the he says, they seys of typical forum chatter---after al--most everybody on here says how much they like club hotrod because of the actual responces they get and the site is being severely limited without his participation---

Let by gones be bygones and fix this ----

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I think DennyW has more info of OEM systems and manuals plus years of ACTUAL experience working on these cars and trucks than anybody here--I believe that no matter whose feathers were wrinkled back then that its time that he was brought back on board for the MEMBERS needing help and with a source of factory specs and methods instead of the he says, they seys of typical forum chatter---after al--most everybody on here says how much they like club hotrod because of the actual responces they get and the site is being severely limited without his participation---

Let by gones be bygones and fix this ----

---

Couldn't have said it better myself, Streets, I understood, Denny I don't

now that sounds like a solution to me. anyone else wana speak up.

well somethings serious ly wrong with only 10 members on board and i don't think its just the new layout---I think its the lack of factory data that you really can't find elsewhere either---I have a few manuals but with the al-data, etc computer stuff for shops there 's now noway for an individual to get factual specs--I been looking for wiring diagram for the radio in my 99 f350 and all the stuff from google,etc sucks--DennyW probably has the layout I need and would put it up here in a heart beat---

And it would be on the money

And most likely would have some experienced remarks about the symphons I have and a recommended fix

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geezer69

now that sounds like a solution to me. anyone else wana speak up.

---

Absolutely!!! DennyW's banning, (IMHO) was the result of a personality conflict between him and Bill. He said something that got Bill's nose out of joint and Bill used his "power" to ban him. That was a decision taken, not in the better interests of the forum or the other members, but simply to show "who was boss."
Denny's 13,000+ posts (I notice that he has been removed from the top posters list) were almost entirely helpful advice given to members and not the rah rah or 3-word story postings that many other posters use to boost their numbers. He has truly been missed by me and, I'm sure, many other members on this forum.
It's time, Bill, to suck it up and invite DennyW back for the good of this forum.

Now, I'll probably be banned.:CRY::rolleyes:

the way i see it denny knew he was pushing the powers that be ? more or less did say that on his forum it was the last straw was a guy that could not get back on with his user name? and denny try to help? thats is why he started Dennys place ? by the way i must be band from his forum ? if this was the case it did not take much if any thing ? a hell of alot less then what he did on here but i am fine with denny if that is the case ..why... its is his forum so he can do what ever the hell he wants ..just like they can do here .you guys better ask denny if he wants to come back ?even if he could he just may not ?? denny was a great help for many things .but he was warned many times that things were not going to change here for him no matter how many post he did add

i just want to know what rule he broke.or was it personal?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geezer69

i just want to know what rule he broke.or was it personal?

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.. well both .. you know the old saying about two side of a story? i seen him pushing on here and he getting warned . he knew he was on his way out ? geezer69 why not ask denny ??

both sides would be cool with me but one cant defend himself if he cant get on here.what rule was broken then. i still aint gettin a answer.i need to know.was it fair or not?was it the rite action or not? i mite never get an answer but i'd like to know.rules are meant for everyone. im just askin a simple question.maby i'll get an answer tomorrow, maby.