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Thread: 1968 Plymouth Valiant 1st Gen HEMI
          
   
   

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  1. #61
    Mike P's Avatar
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    ".....what about an A12 cloned scoop to keep it in the Mopar family?....."

    Thanks Robert. That’s pretty much what the Green Valiant currently has, and I think it looks great on the car. If this car was going to be used basically as a toy I’d be keeping it and not look back. That being said, the issue I have with it is that it’s open in the front.

    This car will become my daily transportation once it’s running. From first hand experience bad weather (like our monsoon season) at best usually leads to a lot of ruined air filters and nasty looking engine compartments. I think I could buy an A12 scoop with the front not cut out but think it’d look ridiculous. I could build a removable plug to fit in the scoop for inclement weather (been there, done that) but really don’t want to go through the hassle.

    Before we raised the engine I think I could have probably used the flat hood with no problems. With the engine raised it’s looking more and more like I’ll need a scoop to clear the air cleaner.

    A lot of people don’t realize that the teardrop “hood scoop” on the TBolts was never intended as a way to get air to the engine, actually just the opposite. The air to the 427 was actually provided by an air box over the carbs fed by 2 LARGE hoses that picked up air through where the inboard High Beam headlights used to be. The “scoop” was actually just a bubble to clear the air box. By opening the 2 holes in the back of the teardrop (which by the design of the teardrop was a low pressure area) the teardrop actually helped evacuate hot air from under the hood.

    When we had the engine set lower one of the potential problems I wonder about was hot air backing up under the hood at highway speeds and I filed the teardrop idea away as a potential solution. With the engine in it’s current location I don’t think getting air out of the engine compartment is going to be an issue but air filter clearance may be.


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    Last edited by Mike P; 05-10-2024 at 03:38 PM.
    rspears likes this.
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  2. #62
    Bob Parmenter's Avatar
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    For those unfamiliar with what Mike has described for the Thunderbolt arrangement, here's a couple thousand work depictions on the Lightning Bolt (small block version of Thunderbolt) Fairlane I did a while back. Intake plumbing and hood scoop profile.
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    Your Uncle Bob, Senior Geezer Curmudgeon

    It's much easier to promise someone a "free" ride on the wagon than to urge them to pull it.

    Luck occurs when preparation and opportunity converge.

  3. #63
    Mike P's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting that Bob. I always loved the 64 Fairlanes. Up until several years ago I always figured I'd come across a builder someday as a project. By the time I got serious about finding one they had gone up way out of my price range.



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    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  4. #64
    rspears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
    Thanks for posting that Bob. I always loved the 64 Fairlanes. Up until several years ago I always figured I'd come across a builder someday as a project. By the time I got serious about finding one they had gone up way out of my price range.
    When I finished college and moved to Kansas City in 1976, I was perusing the Used Auto ads in the KC Star and saw a '65 Mustang Fastback, 289HiPo and a 4 speed listed for $1800. I said to myself, "That's an 11 year old car and he's asking more than 50% of the new list price!! No way it's worth THAT!!"
    Mike P, NTFDAY and johnboy like this.
    Roger
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  5. #65
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    Duh, guess I should have revisited page 1. We had clearance issues with the Crites hood as delivered and converted it into a teardrop on steroids. Not good as a daily driver either.
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    Robert

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rspears View Post
    When I finished college and moved to Kansas City in 1976, I was perusing the Used Auto ads in the KC Star and saw a '65 Mustang Fastback, 289HiPo and a 4 speed listed for $1800. I said to myself, "That's an 11 year old car and he's asking more than 50% of the new list price!! No way it's worth THAT!!"
    I suspect many of us here have similar stories. One of mine would be when my line foreman came into my office one morning in 1973 and said he needed some money. He knew I was a car guy so offered his 63 Silver, split window Vette with factory fuel injection..............$1500. Nothing to get too excited about, that was about right pricing for a 10 year old used car like that. At that moment I had neither space nor free money to do the deal that was just ho hum for the time in history. Sigh..........
    Mike P and NTFDAY like this.
    Your Uncle Bob, Senior Geezer Curmudgeon

    It's much easier to promise someone a "free" ride on the wagon than to urge them to pull it.

    Luck occurs when preparation and opportunity converge.

  7. #67
    Mike P's Avatar
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    Damn Robert you poured the WHOLE bottle of steroids on that one.

    .
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  8. #68
    Mike P's Avatar
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    We’re still moving forward. With the engine placed I got the motor mount perches tacked on to the K member. Naturally the welder started screwing up but fortunately the K member will be coming out which will make it a lot easier to do the grinding and final welding. We also got the engine ready to pull off the run stand so we could get the pan changed out.

    We pulled the intake off and I took it over to the machine shop to have about 3/8” milled off the center divider. While the intake was at the machine shop I got the chain hoist off the mockup engine and when I brought the intake back I decided to set it on the engine and see where I was height wise.

    zz HR by M Patterson, on Flickr

    NOT GOOD It’s hard to get a good perspective from this angle but the top of the carb is above the hood line. I would definitely need to talk to Robert about borrowing his teardrop scoop stretcher to run this intake.

    Much as I hated to, it was time to start looking at different intakes. First up (mostly because I had access to one) was a factory single 4 BBL intake.

    zz Factotry by M Patterson, on Flickr

    It was better, it put the carb over an inch lower, but I’d still need to cut a hole in the hood for an air cleaner. After some thinking I came to the conclusion that the only intake I was aware of that was lower than the factory 4 BBL intake would be would be the 57-58 factory dual quad intake (and possibly the Weiand 7263 which I believe is basically just a copy of the factory unit). I think the dual quad intake might actually allow me to run an unmodified flat hood. This would be the same setup I ran on the 57. I’m kind of burned out on dual quads (I actually wanted to run the single 4 BBL so I could play with EFI later on). That being said, I do have a spare pair of carbs set up for dual quads and the linkage on hand so t wouldn’t be too bad to set up the engine. So far I haven’t come across an intake but I just started putting the word out that I’m hunting.

    Yesterday we went ahead and pulled the engine off the stand so we could trade out the rear sump pan for the center sump one.

    zz Pans by M Patterson, on Flickr

    zz PU 2 by M Patterson, on Flickr

    I didn’t have too much trouble locating a center sump pan when I started this project (I actually ended up with 2 of them). The problem was nobody listed a new pickup for them. I knew the SB Mopar from 64 thru the early 80s was the same basic profile as the center sump 392 pan. The oil pump I was using is one of Hot Heads modified HV 340 oil pumps. I could find the SB oil pick-ups new and figured it should work so I took a chance and ordered one.

    pickup by M Patterson, on Flickr

    and fortunately it fit just fine.

    zz PU 3 by M Patterson, on Flickr

    We finished up yesterday putting the engine (sans intake ) back on the run stand.


    .
    Last edited by Mike P; 05-27-2024 at 06:23 AM.
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  9. #69
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    Can't tell from the picture but could you mill some off the stock intake?

  10. #70
    Mike P's Avatar
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    ".........Can't tell from the picture but could you mill some off the stock intake?......."

    There's a little bit there that could go........maybe at most an 1/8" which really isn't enough to do much good. I'm really hoping to find either a Weiand or factory dual quad intake which should save at least 1 1/2", that with some drop base air cleaners might do the trick or at least minimize the height I'd I'd have to have for a scoop.


    .
    Last edited by Mike P; 05-25-2024 at 03:20 AM.
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  11. #71
    Mike P's Avatar
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    The last couple of weeks have been spent waiting on parts and getting the engine ready to put in the car. I found a manifold (turned out the guy I bought the center sump oil pan from had one). It’s an older Weiand WC2QE which was produced prior to Holley buying out Weiand. It’s pretty close to the Weiand 7263. I gained a little more clearance with it but hood clearance is still going to be close. As far as I know it’s still the lowest one out there.

    DC1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


    DC2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


    The 354 in the 57 Plymouth ran a lot better with 650 CFM AFBs than it did with the 550 CFM units I have sitting on the shelf, so I decided to go ahead and order a second AVS2 650 to go with one I already had. I took them both apart to verify all the internal parts were tight and verify the jetting and step-rods so I’d have a base line when I start tuning them. The only change I made was putting in a step lighter step-up spring and tightening up the secondary air valves just a bit. Building linkage and fuel lines was pretty straight forward.


    intake carbs by M Patterson, on Flickr


    The final thing I needed to do was move the oil pump/distributor intermediate shaft one tooth so I could get the timing set (vacuum advance to manifold clearance issues…..hate it when that happens). I got it fired up yesterday and did the initial timing and carburetor adjustments.


    I started on building the air cleaner base this morning. I’m pretty happy with the way it sets, it could go back a bit further, but I’m afraid I’d run into wiper motor interference if I do, so for now this is the way it sits until we have the motor in the car and the hood on. The good news is I can probably get another 1 to 1½” lower by changing air cleaner lids and dropping the base a bit more.


    DQ AC by M Patterson, on Flickr



    Today we (and by we yes I mean Cade LOL) pulled the mockup engine and transmission out. Then it was time to remove the K member……yes removing torsion bars that were installed 56 years ago are a PIA. By the end of the day it was out and on the floor. This week will probably be spent doing the final welding and grinding on the motor mounts and cleaning it up and painting.


    K Member by M Patterson, on Flickr



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    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  12. #72
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    The engine looks awesome, I like the low intake. That'll be some eye candy when the hood is popped.
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  13. #73
    Mike P's Avatar
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    Still moving forward I guess

    I got the K member cleaned and painted last week, so that’s ready for next weekend.

    Hemi K member by M Patterson, on Flickr


    Yesterday Cade and I actually started on the Green Valiant. Turned into a long day but by the end of it we had an empty engine bay.


    EB by M Patterson, on Flickr


    And the 508 and torqueflite sitting on the engine cart.


    508 by M Patterson, on Flickr


    As expected fighting the headers to get the engine out was the biggest issue and a giant PIA. Fortunately, the HEMI swap will be a lot less dramatic, having already done the mock-up will save a bunch of time when we start putting the car back together. I’m sure glad we won’t have to fight those headers when we put the car back together…….so is Cade LOL.


    A body BB by M Patterson, on Flickr


    With the car up in the air I was able to get the casting number off the carrier and order a set of gears. I ordered 4.30s which with the overdrive will have an effective ratio of 2.97. I’ll probably spend the rest of the week cleaning and sorting parts so I can put the parts car and parts up for sale in the next couple of weeks.



    .
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

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