Thanks Mike. That is the good thing about building stuff. You get to make it fit the first time (usually that is:LOL:). Sometimes it's a lot harder to buy something and then modify it to fit.
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Thanks Mike. That is the good thing about building stuff. You get to make it fit the first time (usually that is:LOL:). Sometimes it's a lot harder to buy something and then modify it to fit.
I used another smaller test gas tank to make this overflow bottle. I turned it upside down so that the tapered neck formed a natural funnel. I cut the flat bottom out, made up this filler neck and welded it in.
https://i.imgur.com/2ImTMq3.jpg
This is the cap mounting. I had an old stainless steel tubing overflow tank that I had started shortening for my T bucket and never got around to finishing it. The parts were kicking around various places in my shop for a long time. I cut the “J Lock” section off the top of that tank and pressed it into the aluminum top I made. This tank shouldn’t see any pressure since it’s open to the atmosphere, so the press fit won’t be an issue. I didn’t even pressure test this one.
https://i.imgur.com/yOl4pKo.jpg
It mounts on a fender brace that I made. I noticed the last time I had the inner fenders in place, that their weight was causing the upright aluminum panel to bow outward. This probably wouldn’t have been an issue once they were under the body and constrained by the fenders, but I just didn’t like the idea of them being unsupported. I made this cross brace that fastens to the expansion tank mounting bracket under the tank. Luckily, as unusual for me, I had made the tank bracket way stronger than it needed to be. It should have no trouble supporting the fenders.
https://i.imgur.com/Oxhmwwe.jpg
I turned some aluminum covers to dress the ends up. They screw onto a set of threads on the end of the fender brace and act as an inner nut. A nut and large fender washer supports the tire side of the fender. In this picture you can also see the reinforcing plates I added to the inner fenders. The fenders are made from .060 aluminum and they are a little weak when the backing plates are separated from the actual fenders. The reinforcing plates give them a lot more strength and resistance to bending. There was another reason for the extra plates that I will get to shortly. The hardware that is shown is way too long. I have the right length on order.
https://i.imgur.com/FNB3M6D.jpg
The radiator hoses were made up from silicone elbow sections joined with beaded steel inner tubes. I used some of the heat shrink hose clamps to clean things up. I’ve never used them before, but they do look nicer than a bunch of screw clamps strung out in the middle of the hose. They are essentially super thick heat shrink tubing. They are not reusable, but that’s OK by me in the center of the hose. I did use regular screw clamps on the ends.
https://i.imgur.com/X6c34qa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/raKSrqq.jpg
I had to use a swiveling thermostat housing to get a usable angle on the lower hose.
https://i.imgur.com/Ja7jW0Z.jpg
I also had to cut a c-notch in the crossmember to clear the lower hose (old picture).
https://i.imgur.com/2JOv01o.jpg
I’m going to back up a little and post some more info about the EFI setup. I forgot to add this to the previous post.
The throttle bodies are just standard Holley parts that were originally intended for single setups. That causes a small problem when used in pairs since each TB has an idle air control (IAC) valve. I gave this problem a lot of thought. It’s a problem because you either have to control both IAC’s or eliminate one altogether. Leaving an unconnected IAC wouldn’t be a good idea since there is no way to know if it is closed. I didn’t really think that 2 IAC’s were needed since there are idle adjustment screws built into the TB’s. All the IAC has to do is add a small amount of air to compensate for cold starts and small load changes. Normally, you set the gross idle setting the same as a carb, but you watch the IAC counts instead of RPM.
I decided to just remove one of the IAC’s, but that leaves an unused port that needed to be plugged. Rather than just plugging the port, I decided to make a manually adjustable IAC. This is no different than some of the old VW Solex carbs I used to fool with. They used a manually adjusted IAC. This is what I came up with.
https://i.imgur.com/5uorf3D.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FHsmsE4.jpg
I’m using the rear TB’s IAC for the computer. An IAC is really just a controlled vacuum leak, so I wouldn’t think that a central location would be needed and the rear one was easier to get the wiring harness to. Besides, there will be air entering through the front manual IAC. The manual one is in the front TB, under the air cleaner, where it can’t be seen (or reached easily), so the nut won’t show at all and it gives me an easy way to adjust it with a wrench.
Back on the plumbing. The heater was next. That was originally plumbed in the engine bay with a combination of Gates 90 degree molded hoses and regular heater hose. I did add one thing that you typically don’t see. That is an “H” pipe with a small crossover line between the hoses. This came about due to an incident I saw while helping a buddy change the front accessory drive on his LS.
https://i.imgur.com/xPzf6hI.jpg
After we were finished and refilling the cooling system (it was a Holley front drive with a dedicated Holley water pump, like mine) he made the comment that the engine would have to get very hot before the thermostat would open. I thought this was strange, but since he actually has a running driving car that has been on the road for several years and mine has yet to turn a wheel under LS power, I didn’t question him. Sure enough, the engine did get pretty hot before the thermostat opened. After that, everything appeared to function normally.
Things like this bother me and I mulled it over in my head. I thought I had the answer and when I got home, I looked up the LS cooling diagrams I had saved on my laptop. GM designed the original LS1 with the coolant flowing through the heater core all the time and it showed that on the diagrams I had. He has the same basic Vintage Air AC/Heat unit that I do and when I checked my VA supplied heater control valve, sure enough, it was completely closed. There was no flow unless the valve was open, so no coolant was moving by the thermostat. That explained, to me at least, why the engine had to get so hot before the T-stat opened.
A little internet research found that other people had experienced similar issues and Vintage Air even sells the H-pipe that I used. Mainly it’s intended for Coyote engine swaps as it’s my understanding that they can fry one of the cylinder banks without some flow through the heater core, but it works just as well on the LS to keep a little coolant circulating around the thermostat. I find it strange that there doesn’t seem to be a bypass hole built into the LS water pump. Oh well, I put in a crossover whether it helps or not. Easier to put it in now than try to replumb the system later. Had I figured all this out before I installed the Holley front drive, I would have attempted to drill a bypass into the water pump housing and eliminate the extra parts.
https://i.imgur.com/GQ9O4KT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bAQPxrP.jpg
The heater hoses pass through a 4-hole AC bulkhead fitting to the cars interior.
https://i.imgur.com/PifeY37.jpg
After I had all this plumbed, I didn’t really like it. I liked it even less after I added all the hose clamps. There was noting technically wrong with it since it was perfectly serviceable, but all those screw clamps looked out of place. Sooooo, I went back to the drawing board to come up with something cleaner.
I decided that I would use AN hose, since I have so much of it already in the car. I attempted to use the H-pipe that I already had, but that was a no-go with the AN hose. -10 AN is supposed to be 5/8” inside diameter (the size of the H-pipe), but the hose I had was just a little too small and you don’t stretch stainless braided hose very much. Next I tried to move the H-pipe to the interior behind the firewall where I am using regular rubber hose, but it was too wide to match the spacing on the bulkhead that I was using. Nothing to do but throw that one under the bench and build my own.
I liked the idea of moving the H-pipe inside because, that one move by itself, went a long way toward cleaning up the overall look in the engine bay. I decided the quickest thing to do (for me) was to machine an aluminum manifold that did the same thing as the H-pipe and better fit the bulkhead spacing.
The machining was pretty quick and I think it turned out well. I made it as compact as I could and still have room to get a wrench on the fittings. The ports are ½” all the way through and they are tapped for a 3/8” pipe fitting. The hose fittings are Dorman “Help” parts from the local O’reilly’s. The crossover port is ¼” diameter and that is plugged with a ¼” pipe plug where I had to drill through the outside.
https://i.imgur.com/26vC4dP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Fm6JNf5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/U15fe7m.jpg
This one fit behind the firewall just right.
https://i.imgur.com/gvUizfq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/r5ZGJLt.jpg
The hoses in the engine bay are -10 AN. I used male AN compression adapters on the bulkhead fittings since they are AC type o-ring style and I couldn’t find any AN hose ends with that connection. By using one 3/4x-10 45* fitting on one port and a straight fitting on the other with a 45* hose end, I got the hoses to route around the exhaust manifold like I planned it that way. I think this setup is way cleaner. Nobody will probably ever notice this, but I did. Must be my automotive OCD kicking in!! That is, for sure, the only possible OCD I have. Just ask my wife!
https://i.imgur.com/ymavHAd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hBFC7Nc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/baFvgTo.jpg
I had originally planned to run the heater and AC hoses around the top of the AC unit, but that proved to be unworkable. I have a fold down fuse and relay panel (more on that later) that is also the mount for the Holley ECU. It is located near the AC . This meant that all the fuse panel and engine harness wiring had to pass through the same area as the hoses. Unfortunately, this violated that pesky law of physics that says 2 or more things can’t occupy the same space at the same time (at least in this universe)! Funny how these things just seem to fall in place in your head, but reality slaps you in the forehead and says, “You big dummy! That ain’t gonna work”.
I worked on that problem for quite a while before the solution presented itself. The VA unit has a nice, rounded cover below the fan that I thought was part of the condensate drain system.
https://i.imgur.com/ob7Hqt9.jpg
While looking at the unit, trying to come up with a workable solution, I noticed that the cover was just held on with three small screws. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, so I pulled that cover. There was no way that thing could be part of the drain system since the drain came out of the main airbox and there was no passage to the drain hose. Also, there was no sealant around the cover and it didn’t really fit well enough to seal on it’s own. Anything it did collect would just drip out on your feet. With the cover off, I now had room to route the hoses under the bottom of the unit, leaving the entire top for wiring.
The heater hose routing did require four 5/8” 90 degree fittings from the Help! section of my local Oreilly’s since I couldn’t get the stiff heater hose to make the tight curves without collapsing. Also shown are some of the inside AC hoses. They weren’t as stiff and made the bends fine. Yes, that’s a lot of clamps, but at least these won’t be seen.
https://i.imgur.com/wevKdLq.jpg
I couldn’t just leave all those hoses, clamps and wiring showing, so I bent up a cover out of some scrap aluminum sheet to hide most of it. The cover also keeps the passenger’s feet from getting tangled in all the wires and hoses. The car is so low, that this cover is plenty tall enough. You have to really bend down and stick your head under the dash to see what’s not covered. These shots were taken with the AC unit at eye level. This will eventually get covered with carpet, like the trans tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/mS67XrO.jpg
Not related to plumbing is the toe board I added to the passenger side. I noticed when my wife was sitting on that side that her feet were just kind of sticking out in space. Well, she is “vertically” challenged! The toe board gave her something to rest her feet on and she looks much more comfortable with this in place. The toe board had other benefits, too. It created an unused space between it and the firewall that turned out to be a great area for some electrical stuff and more AC parts.
https://i.imgur.com/tJhaJEU.jpg
That's a lot going on in that tight spot. Looks good, you made it work.
I ran the drain hose for the AC unit, too. No drama there, but it did come out directly over the right exhaust pipe. I bent up a short section of ½” stainless tubing to keep the water from dripping directly on the exhaust.
https://i.imgur.com/5VcgCwH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PJvcl3V.jpg
The AC dryer is mounted on the inside firewall. This was the location that Vintage Air recommended so that it wouldn't pick up extra heat from the engine.
https://i.imgur.com/7qO9KzV.jpg
This is the plumbing through the bulkhead on the AC side. I’m using a trinary switch to control the radiator fan through the Holley ECU. After looking at my options, this seemed to be the best way. The style of trinary switch I’m using screws onto an older style charge port. This setup has a Schrader valve that allows you to replace the switch without decharging the system. The dryer would accept a switch too, but that one required the system to be empty. The fitting the switch is on worked out just right, since I needed to clear the rest of the hoses on the bulkhead.
https://i.imgur.com/Wy0DDvi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3zTuDST.jpg
The under hood AC plumbing took a little while to work out and a couple of attempts resulted in a few trashed fittings and wasted hose. One of the things I tried to build into this car is the ability to remove the inner fenders easily. There are many things on the engine and chassis that are very hard to get to and removing the inner fenders will make service a lot easier. My problem was how to route the AC hoses without interfering with removing the fenders.
I hit on the idea of using a second 2-hole bulkhead fitting near the compressor. This is why I had to add the reinforcing plates to the inner fender uprights. The hose was too stiff to just route through a hole in the inner fender without warping the metal. This setup worked out great. I slotted the fender upright so that I can remove it without disturbing the hoses. I estimate about 20 minutes to pull the inner fender in my shop with power tools. We’ll just have to see if that works out as planned. Much of this plumbing will be under the fender since the hood opening gets smaller toward the front. At least I hope it will be hidden.
https://i.imgur.com/jZRIxI7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S1EKbIq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dATUqO2.jpg
Not much to show on the rest. Just the condenser and a few hoses.
https://i.imgur.com/vctmZmu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BIEj1aF.jpg
Man! That's like 5 pounds o'stuff in a 4 pound bag! But you got it all in there.. good job.
Thanks 34, that's how pretty much everything is on this car. After building this thing I think I could take up building ships in bottles. I think it would be easier!
The fuel plumbing is next up.
The type of plumbing scheme that I used on this car is what I would call a full loop return system. That may not be the correct name, though. This is similar to how the original LS1 Corvettes (first 2 or 3 years) were plumbed as well as some trucks. With the system I’m using, the fuel travels from the tank to the fuel rail (in my case the left rail), crosses over at the front to the right rail and then is plumbed to the bypass regulator on the firewall. The regulator has a separate return line that runs back to the tank. In this system, fuel is constantly circulating through all the lines, hoses, fuel rails and back to the tank. No time to pick up much heat and it has the benefit of being, more or less, self-bleeding of air.
I’ll start at the rear and work forward. This is the fuel pump module I made for the tank. Originally it had an old style fuel level sender with a float, but I have since added another flange to the tank for a capacitance sender with no moving parts. If that doesn’t work out, I can go back to the old type sender since the mounting flange is the same for both.
https://i.imgur.com/lipiVO5.jpg
The fuel pump is an Aeromotive 340. It fits into a sump in the bottom of the tank. The return line dumps into this sump also. As a refresher, the tank is approximately 15 gallons with baffles. It is made from 5052 aluminum which is used for some marine tanks and resistant to corrosion.
https://i.imgur.com/YYMOoRz.jpg
The gasket is made from Viton sheet. Viton is fuel resistant. I had originally made the gasket from some Neoprene I had, but found out that material would swell and disintegrate when exposed to fuel. I managed to find someone on EBAY that was selling remnants of Viton sheet.
https://i.imgur.com/9DVcsQE.jpg
The module is held in with stainless ¼” flange bolts. Under the head of each bolt is a Viton O-ring because the bolts go through into the tank. I will cut a hatch in the trunk floor that I can use to access the module and fuel sender. Way easier than dropping the tank.
https://i.imgur.com/TIZohvF.jpg
This is something I found interesting. Aeromotive says this pump is good for 800HP naturally aspirated. I noticed that the intake opening is only 5/16” ID. I would have thought that it would have been larger.
https://i.imgur.com/vthOVbC.jpg
The fuel hoses are -6 PTFE lined with stainless braid. They shouldn’t be affected by any alcohol that may be in the gas. From the fuel tank, hoses run over the rear sway bar. I ran them through some insulating sleeves. The sleeves are also fiberglass lined to give a little more abrasion resistance. These hoses will eventually be supported by insulated mounts screwed to the floor of the car, so they won’t actually be rubbing on the sway bar. Yeah, the hoses are crossed. An oversight on my part. When I ran the hard lines, I forgot to check the layout of the pump fittings and reversed them and I wasn’t going to remake them.
https://i.imgur.com/hCG6EJW.jpg
They run down to the fuel filter and hard return line. I had been wrestling with just how to run the hard lines and where to mount the filter since early in the build. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to mount the big stuff where it HAS to go and leave some things to where you have room. I wanted the filter to be fairly easy to get to. Everything is held on with rivet nuts, so servicing it shouldn’t be too hard. The filter looks like it’s crooked, but that must be camera angle. It is straight.
https://i.imgur.com/XXI8CEt.jpg
The hard lines are 3/8 stainless steel. I have been hoarding two pieces of tubing that was salvaged from a piece of machinery that was being junked at work. They were straight and long enough to fit in one piece. I figured this was as good a time as any to use them up. But, since I only had two pieces and couldn’t afford to screw one up, I bent a test line up in regular steel tubing from my local parts house. It was simple after that to duplicate it in the stainless tubing. I had left just enough space between the floor and the transmission crossmember to get the tubing in with a little clearance to spare. It looks closer in the pictures than it actually is.
https://i.imgur.com/by2jBsl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/svo95MX.jpg
The hard lines run up to a couple of bulkhead fittings near the firewall. From there, more braided hoses run up to the fuel rail and return on the regulator. These hoses are also in insulating sleeves. They are closer to the exhaust manifold than I would have liked and wanted a little extra heat protection. Since fuel will constantly be flowing through the lines, heat shouldn’t be big issue while the engine is running. Heat soak from the exhaust when the engine is off might be an issue, so I insulated them.
https://i.imgur.com/wRVnCWq.jpg
The regulator is an Aeromotive part. I fitted it with both a mechanical pressure gauge and pressure transducer for the Holley EFI. With the transducer I can log fuel pressure if I need to. I’m playing around with the Holley software whenever I get a chance and have come up with a “Check Engine” light of sorts. It will come on if the A/F ratio goes lean or the fuel pressure drops. Not sure if it will work as planned, but I think I have it programmed right. I can add other activation points as well. If it works, it will at least give me a little warning if there is a problem.
https://i.imgur.com/7GZCyIJ.jpg
The injectors are 42 pound Holley’s. They should be plenty without being too big, although 36’s would most likely have worked, too. One thing that I like about the Holley injectors is that they are rated at 43 PSI of fuel pressure instead of the 60 PSI of regular LS injectors. That should take a little wear and tear off the fuel pump and lower it’s amp draw. Also, all the injector specs were already available in the Holley software.
https://i.imgur.com/fWoTOa7.jpg
The front crossover line.
https://i.imgur.com/7J3RfAP.jpg
Beautiful work on the fuel lines.
Thanks V8. I will say that my tubing skills have improved a lot over the years.
Just a little more plumbing to finish it up. This will be miscellaneous stuff.
The clutch plumbing is a little more complicated than just a straight forward line. This is because I included a clutch tamer launch control setup. This is a system that has an electric control valve, timer and manual engagement valve added. When the system is active, it works in conjunction with the line lock. In a nutshell, it controls clutch engagement when you release the line lock.
I have never used one, but as I understand it, you run the engine up to whatever RPM you want to launch at, release the line lock button and side step the clutch pedal. The clutch releases at the rate you adjust with the manual valve and controls it for however long the timer is set for. Once the timer drops out, the solenoid valve swaps over and the system goes back to normal clutch operation. Remember the line in old Beach Boys song “Shut Down” that says “ to get some traction, I’m ridin’ the clutch”? Well, that is essentially what this system does, only it does it more consistently than I ever could.
According to the manufacturers website, it was designed by an Australian guy that was breaking a lot of Saginaw 4 speeds while drag racing. Don’t know why he kept using Saginaw’s, but that is the story. Maybe Saginaw’s are a lot more common than stronger makes down under. He thought that by softening the clutch hit, he could reduce breakage from shock loading. It worked for that, but he also noticed that his 60 foot times got more consistent, too.
I found this system for sale from someone on one of the LS forums. He was parting out a wrecked car. I probably would never have bought it for full price, but it was reasonable and seemed interesting. Besides, my T56 is an early LT1 unit that I had converted to LS specs and it is not rated for as much torque as the later units. I did have some upgrades done when it was rebuilt, but if the tamer saved the original designers Saginaw transmissions, it should help save mine.
There is another line in Shut Down that follows the one I just quoted and that is “my pressure plates burnin’…..”. That is a downside to slipping the clutch. It does add more wear, but I doubt I will use it much.
This is a screenshot of the original plumbing diagram.
https://i.imgur.com/uqvW9Uf.jpg
And this is how I fitted all that to the car. I rerouted some of it, but it still follows the same flow path. That is a lot of extra lines that will have to be bled. That is another potential problem area, it can be hard to bleed.
https://i.imgur.com/2B0qkHF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eGPTCdM.jpg
This is the manual valve. I located it under the steering column. I can reach it fairly easy, but it is out of the way. I used braided hose instead of hardline because that is what the manufacturer recommended. In order to completely bleed this valve, it needs to be removed from the mounting bracket and stood up to get the air to exit. I will be pressure bleeding the system, so that should help.
https://i.imgur.com/ZSlUyJG.jpg
This is the fitting that enters the slave cylinder. I had to get a 45* fitting and bend it slightly to make the required path. It bent fairly easy, but I had to be careful not to collapse or crack it. I guess you know you have a custom car when you have to make a special hose fitting just to plumb the clutch!
https://i.imgur.com/SvxgA2f.jpg
This is the rest of the clutch hose. I had to add a section of rubber hose around it for protection where it wrapped around the corner of the firewall.
https://i.imgur.com/UGzQDaU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FVXPkef.jpg
Not related to the clutch is this remote adjustment knob for the brake balance bar. With the lack of space under the dash and the fact that the clutch master is next to it, the balance bar is very difficult to get to for adjustment. This knob connects by a flexible cable to a small right angle gearbox located on the balance bar adjusting screw. This setup will allow me to adjust the brake balance from the drivers seat while driving, if needed.
https://i.imgur.com/dwn9I0Z.jpg
Finishing up the plumbing is the Accusump oil accumulator. This holds a about one and a half quarts of oil under pressure. If the oil pressure falls off for any reason, this oil will be dumped into the engine to prevent bearing damage. Kind of a poor man’s dry sump system. I’m using a shallow Corvette oil pan and they are known to have oil slosh problems, but it was necessary for ground clearance. The accumulator valve is normally controlled by a pressure switch, but I will be wiring it so that I can either control it by the normal switch or from the Holley ECU. Using the ECU allows me to adjust the pressure that opens the release valve since the computer monitors oil pressure and I can log that in real time.
I had to wait until I had most things done before I could mount the accumulator. It’s about the size of 3 old school round oil cans and that presented a problem due to it’s size. I’ve had this thing for 2 or 3 years and during that time I have offered it up to just about every place I thought it might fit. It’s best if the discharge end is mounted up. I finally decided to mount it behind the driver’s side front fender. This was out of the way and close to the oil galley port on the engine. I used a -10 AN hose to plumb it. Not shown in the pictures is a triangulated bracket that braces the top of the accumulator. It attaches to the fire wall.
https://i.imgur.com/vx3Jsir.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3VxP7cT.jpg
This is the gauge on the air end of the accumulator. I bought the Accusump used and was concerned it might have issues, but it has been holding this 20 PSI charge for about 4 months now. I guess the seals are good.
https://i.imgur.com/GrcnrOw.jpg
This is the block above the oil pan that the accumulator plumbs into. It also holds the oil pressure gauge sending unit. The block is CNC machined and replaces the factory oil passage connector.
https://i.imgur.com/NpG5KqB.jpg
"........Saginaw 4 speeds while drag racing......."
File this under words that should never be used in the same sentence.
Yeah ask me how I know (I was DYNAMIC in misspent youth). :whacked:
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Mike, I thought the same thing! There must not be anything else available in Australia, considering that there are stronger transmissions that just bolt in. Oh well, I guess necessity really is the mother of invention.
When I was researching this system, it seems that I read that nearly every top car in the 4-speed classes is running some version of this type of system. I don't intend to put this car on a drag strip very often, but it may see a hard launch or two:eek::D!!
Well gang, I have an apology and some very big news to report on this project!
First I’ll get the apology out of the way. I have been very MIA for the last few months on this thread and for that I apologize to everyone that has followed this story over the years, but it was for a good reason. Not long after the last post I made a solemn vow to myself that this car WOULD be drivable before the end of the year. No ifs ands or buts, no excuses. There are 3 big car shows that we usually attend toward the end of the year and I wanted to drive the car to as many as I could. To that end, I quite literally became a man on a mission. I have been doing 10 -12 hour days in my shop on all my days off for the last several months. I also burnt a lot of vacation time toward this goal. There were very few days that I didn’t do something on the car.
BUT, the good news is that I have driven the car! It is still not absolutely complete and was not exactly trouble free, but it was good enough to drive to the Cruisin the Coast affair on the Gulf coast last week.
There is much to this story and I will probably miss a lot of it, but I will try to post enough to get everyone caught up on the build. Of course, if there are no pictures, it didn’t happen. So here is the proof.
https://i.imgur.com/TPuDPYS.jpg
As you can see, the car is actually painted, which was an adventure in itself. The color is British Racing Green as done by Mazda for the M series Miata’s.
The trip and the car was not without issues.
The night before I left, I realized that I had never did a tune for anything other than to get it to the paint shop. I made up something that I thought would work and uploaded it right before we left. Still needs a little work, but I got over 19 MPG at 70-75 MPH on the interstate. I think there is a little more on that front.
I made the trip to the coast fine, but the car was pretty squirrely on uneven bridge crossings and bumpy roads. I occurred to me the night I arrived, while lying in bed mulling this over, that I had never dialed in any rebound dampening into the shocks. I essentially HAD no shocks. I corrected that the next morning and things improved a bunch. I still need to recheck the alignment and ride height now that the springs have had a chance to settle.
There were several things that I simply ran out of time to get done. I had no top, since the new windshield wouldn’t work with the old top and I have about 75% of a functioning windshield wiper setup, but perfect beach weather solved those problems. The AC and heat aren’t hooked up behind the dash, either. Oh, and there is no horn, wiring, but no actual horn.
The biggest issue was that I thought the engine was in melt down the first time I got caught in traffic and believe me there is a LOT of HEAVY traffic at CTC. The dash gauge was reading 235 – 240 at times, but the engine never acted hot! I was puzzled by this since I never heard the high speed cooling fans come on. I should add that I’m running a stock LS thermostat and the engine runs around 208, which as far as I can tell, is perfectly normal for an LS with stock stat. My fans are set to come on at 215 (low) and 225 (high). This aligns closely with the factory stock settings of 218 and 228. Yes, it was very hard for an old guy like me to accept that these engines are happy at temps that would scare me to death if it was an old small block. Anyway, to get on with the story. I never heard the high speed fans come on and they are plenty loud enough to hear over the engine. I had accidently left my laptop at home, so I had to go to an Office Depot and buy an inexpensive laptop to see what was going on in the ECU. I didn’t really mind because I have been wanting to get one to carry in the car just for tuning. Turns out, the ECU wasn’t seeing anything over about 220 and the temp was being perfectly controlled by the low speed fans. The gauge was going wonky when it went over 210. After that, I didn’t really worry about it and only heard the high speed fans come on briefly one time after a hot restart. I think I know what is happening and have a potential fix, but that’s another story for another time.
In all, I put over 800 miles on the car. Other than the few problems I mentioned, there were no other real issues. I didn’t hammer on it much because I wanted to break the engine and clutch in or at least give them a fighting chance. I will say that the few times I really got on it, it goes pretty good! Mucho fun! The exhaust note is great and several people commented on that. Has a nice mellow “sports car” sound until you get on it and then it really talks to you. My wife said that apparently I must really like that, because I seemed to make it talk a lot! It was a hit with spectators, too and wound up posted on the CTC Facebook page. Many pics were taken over the week.
Here is a bonus video from the autocross. I couldn’t resist having a go after a little goading by a friend (who was brave or foolish enough to ride with me). My first time on an autocross track and with a new car to boot! It was a fairly slow run compared to the hot shoes with the purpose built cars, but I was about the same time as a Cobra the previous day. Still had a ton of fun and can’t wait until next year!
https://youtu.be/xb5DgxqvY5U
https://i.imgur.com/wwLOmo2.jpg
Here are some pics I took when I got home.
https://i.imgur.com/yO8NOys.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ysEl33y.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1g0kxvn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VePqdNL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6bltOL6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q0B8U8Y.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eHw5Pdg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bIJbkdI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J1SC4Gh.jpg
Awesome Mike! Glad your on the road! auto cross sounds fun! Car looks excellent. Thumbs up.
Amazing thrash to the finish line! Congrats! The car looks amazing!
Times 3 Mike! I agree with the others. You've done a lot of incredible work and the car reflects that. Can't wait for some more updates.. hint hint LOL
Good one mate, it looks bloody gorgeous, I'm not surprised it's a head-turner!
I'd wager you're as happy as a dog with two tails...
:LOL: :LOL:
"while lying in bed mulling this over, ........" significant, unlogged build time.
I'm gob smacked at how well it turned out...........not surprised, but still impressed. Two things strike me the most, though there is so much to take in. First is how successful you were in making it look so much more like an actual Healy than what you started with. Fabulous! Second, I love how you made the engine compartment look both functional and "hot roddy" at the same time without too much showy crap.............so clean looking. That thing is a detail freaks delight.
The car came out beyond great, really first rate build!
It came out bootyful. Congrats on gettinrdun. Also congrats on making Cruising the Coast, you were pretty impressive on the road course.
Nolan
That car just looks RIGHT.
.
WOW! Beautiful car Mike, and job well done. You have more patience than I ever dreamed of. CTC is the perfect place to break it in. I’ve never been to it, but I just booked a room there for next year.
Thanks everyone for the compliments. It's been a long, long journey for sure.
I'm really enjoying driving it, for sure. Still needs a lot of tuning and tinkering to get completely ship shape, but it's plenty good enough to enjoy right now!
I have about 14 days to get it ready for a 400 mile drive to Panama City, Florida for the Emerald Coast Cruise. I really need to get that top fitted!
"It's been a long, long journey for sure."
Yep.
Just looked back to when you started this thread: November 2014.
But I think you can say that the end result was worth the toil and frustrations.
It's a beautiful beast and a credit to you.
That's outstanding ! Wow what a hotrod! Glad to see your hard work pay off and it did in BIG way, Congrats !
Thanks, Navy!
Here’s an update on preparations for the next road trip.
Had two oil leaks on the engine. One on the adapter that feeds the Accu-sump and one on the right valve cover.
The adapter leak was fixed by installing a new adapter. The original one was bought from an independent guy on another forum with a CNC shop that was trying to break into the LS parts business. The part looked well made, but leaked where the -10 fitting threaded into the adapter. I even recut the o-ring seat myself in an attempt to salvage the part, but it didn’t work.
The new part was made by Improved Racing and seems to have fixed the problem. Replaced the adapter when I changed out the original break-in oil. This was the second oil change, actually, I changed out the startup oil at 50 miles, cut the filter open. Everything looked good.
The old adapter:
https://i.imgur.com/NpG5KqB.jpg
And the new one:
https://i.imgur.com/SSv46xs.jpg
BTW – I would have never thought that finding name-brand non-synthetic 5W-30 oil locally would be so difficult. Four different parts chains didn’t have it and WalMart didn’t either. It simply does not appear to be sold in my one-horse town. I did find some 10W-30 Comp Cams break-in oil that is regular oil. Looks like I’m going to have to order it. I don’t want to run synthetic until I get a couple of oil changes on it. Looks like I’m going to have to order dino oil online! And, it takes slightly over 7 quarts to change it out with the Accu-sump.
The valve cover leak gave me fits. It took 2 attempts to get it sealed. I discovered that the Holley valve cover adapters that I’m using have to be pushed up on the mounting bolts as far as you can to get the lower rail to seal. Wound up making a couple of long, threaded dowls to help position the covers while installing the regular mounting bolts. I also trashed the Holley cover bolts and installed some original LS bolts. They seemed to work better.
I cleaned the oil off the bottom of the car and inspected everything I could get to. Discovered that the driveshaft u-bolts were slightly loose. Not sure how that happened. I must have just snugged them up and forgot about them.
I still need to recheck the front ride height and it would be nice if I could get it up in the scales and check corner weights.
I also tackled the temp gauge mismatch issue. I had a theory about what was causing the abnormally high temp indication. The gauge was showing 235-240 while the ECU was seeing around 220.
Here is what I thought was going on. There are only two places on an LS to normally mount a temp sender. The “normal, factory” sender location is in the left cylinder head near the front of the engine. Since the heads will work on either side, the other location is in the rear of the right head (left head flipped around). The Speedhut sender uses 1/8” pipe threads and the LS head has straight metric threads, so I ordered a brass adapter from Speedhut when I ordered the gauges. On my car the firewall wraps around the engine pretty tightly and is insulated on the inside of the passenger compartment. To make matters worse, there is a nice heavy steel exhaust manifold runner right by the sender.
On the highway, there is enough air flow through the engine bay to keep everything reasonably cool, but in traffic, the heat from the exhaust was being reflected back to the large brass adapter and brass sender. All this junk was getting heat soaked. I was reading some exhaust temp and water temp. Due to it’s front location near the exit to the radiator, I felt that the front ECU sender was actually seeing what should be the hottest water in the engine.
I got lucky in that Holley had provided a hole threaded for 1/8” pipe on the back of the water pump right in the center of the return to the radiator. This was normally for a steam line fitting from the heads, but I ran my steam line to the expansion tank. I ordered a new sender (no way to get the old one out. Too close to the firewall) and a new harness. I spliced this to the old harness and moved the sender to the water pump. Basically, the same deal as putting the sender on the intake manifold of a Gen 1 SBC.
This worked pretty much perfectly. Up to 200, the gauge reads about 5 degrees colder than the ECU, but after that, they match within 1-2 degrees. As far as I’m concerned, that problem is solved.
https://i.imgur.com/avdF0VF.jpg
If you have been following this build since the beginning, you may find it ironic that on my maiden voyage home from Florida 8 years ago, I had false overheating problems due to a misplaced temp sender and I had nearly the same issue on this maiden voyage. Fate? Irony? Coincidence? Maybe all three.
Worked on an electrical issue that was bugging me. The voltage seemed to be all over the place. It would read 12.5 and then go to almost 14. The dash gauge and ECU agreed, so I figured it was a real issue.
The Holley accessory drive I’m using uses an alternator that appears to be based on a very late model Corvette part. May even be the same part. It is rated at 150 amps (I think that’s right) and is a 6-phase alternator. Basically, it’s two 75 amp 3-phase alternators in one case, which is supposed to allow it to put out more amperage at low RPM. A little research turned up that the Corvette units also have a more sophisticated voltage regulator than older GM alternators, that can supposedly analyze the battery condition and has a wider range of outputs to correct issues and save fuel. Couldn’t save much fuel, but I guess every little bit helps. 12.5 to 15 volts is normal and Corvette owners reported that the voltage would vary in that range at any given time.
I was about to dismiss my issue as a non-issue when I noticed the voltage falling to 12 on the ECU. Gauge concurred. Nope, that ain’t right. I checked the alternator output and it was at 14.7 while the fuse block was showing 11.7! I found a loose connection on the battery disconnect. After tightening it up, the voltage settled out at 13.5.
Like the old Clint Eastwood western, every big project has some of the good, the bad and the ugly. Some things that just don’t work out (at least mine do) and this project is no exception.
As in the movie. I'll deal with the ugly first. Just a total screw up on my part. Basically, neither top (hard or soft) will fit! When I made the roll bars, I thought I measured the hard top correctly and even attached the soft top bows to make sure they cleared when folded, but apparently I screwed up all that.
The hard top is a full no go. No way to make it fit without it looking cut up or goofy. My body man says we can make it work, but I’m not sure that the results would look right. At any rate, it would be a big job to cut and paste this one enough to work. It would have to have a couple of molded bubbles, like the Gurney roof on the GT40, to clear the hoops. The rear window frame would have to be completely cut out and leaned back about 2” for clearance, too.
The soft top could be made to work, but will need a new fabric section made. Pretty much a completely custom top. No way to get this done before going back to the coast. The wife and I will have to treat it like a motorcycle trip and rough it. We’ve traveled by motorcycle before, so we are somewhat used to that. Drove a T-bucket with no top for about 10 years and made several long trips. This car, in theory at least, is much more comfortable than the T. At least I’m completely behind the windshield on this one, not so much for the T. That sure made driving in the rain (and hailstorms, another story) “interesting” to say the least.
As they say, when given lemons, make lemonade. If I have to have new top fabric made, then I will also attempt to make a new folding top mechanism that works more like a real folding top. The original Sebring top is more closely related to a boat or simple Jeep top, with very simple top bows and windshield attachments. This setup has to be pretty much “erected” like a tent. I would really like to have a setup that simply folds up and down like a Miata or later model British sports car. Quick and simple to put up or down. This will be my next big project, probably for the next several months as there is much engineering and fab work to do. Most likely a few aborted attempts will be made. The hard part will be finding someone that can sew a top and then paying for it! Probably won’t be anything close to cheap, but the car is nice enough now to justify the outlay.
With the ugly out of the way, let’s talk about the bad. This one isn’t really a screw up, I’m just completely dissatisfied with the results.
I simply do not like the electric steering! It does work, but I don’t like the way it feels on the road. It does provide assist and isn’t unsafe, but I still don’t like it. The overall feedback is not what I want. I have read that cars with electric steering can have a dead feel and I get it now. It is most certainly NOT how a sports car is supposed to feel. IMO – A sports car should feel alive, constantly telling the driver what’s going on between the tires and road. This one doesn’t. The steering wheel is just a device to control the direction of the car. I might as well be driving a video game.
When I did the steering, I considered this as a possibility and I left room for a hydraulic rack as a plan B. I will be going in that direction in the very near future. I will probably do this before starting on the top mechanism. Yes, I dislike it that much.
While this may sound like a big job, I don’t see it that way. It will entail removing the steering column, tearing it down and replacing the main tube and shaft ( I have several old parts on hand). I will have to duplicate the unusual mounting setup that the power unit has. I want something that just bolts in and doesn’t require major changes to the under-dash framework. This will also give me a chance to try the car with no power steering. Turning the electric off doesn’t count since it adds considerable drag to the steering when off. I might not need power except for two reasons. One, I’m using a lot of caster in the front end, so steering effort will probably be very high at low speed with the fast ratio rack I’m using. Two, I need the car to be able to be driven by my wife in an emergency, so, see reason number one.
Making this change should not be too difficult since the steering column is completely separate from the rest of the steering system. Meaning the column is short and has a separate short driveshaft that runs to a firewall pass through bearing setup. The car will not look any different in the passenger compartment and only the addition of a power steering pump will be evident in the engine compartment. The Holley accessory drive I’m using already has the provision for a pump and I have the pump. All I need is the rack and hoses.
I’m not sure if I will use a standard Fox body Mustang rack or get one custom built from Flaming River. I may call them and see what they say. I’m looking for something with a higher effort and might need a performance rack with a larger torsion bar in the valve body. The SN95 Cobra R racks are said to be the perfect compromise between effort and feel, but finding a genuine Cobra R rack would be pure luck. They were rare to begin with and even though there are rebuilt R racks available, there is no real way to know if you have a genuine R rack. All the differences are internal and they will easily interchange with a standard rack. I may start with a standard Fox rack, since they are fairly cheap (well cheaper). If it doesn’t work out, I can always use that on my 46 when I redo it later. I will most likely add a cooler to the return line, too.
These two posts sum up the biggest disappointments with the car. One is pretty easily corrected , but the other will take some thought and work.
Great updates and awesome your knowledgeable and familiar with upgrades that will make this car work for you. It's a beauty
Well, it wouldn't be hot rodding if there weren't changes to be made somewhere. I remember someone telling me that they are never finished... I'm wondering now if it was you!?!?!? 8-) The steering rack, is there some reason the Omni rack is no longer mentioned or is even considered? Just wondering.. The tops - well that just plain sucks! But we'll all be curious to see what you come up with! Thanks for the update(s). Enjoy the weekend!
A friend of mine has a Cobra with no top and has spent a few hours hiding under overpasses, not that is the answer by any means. I hate being cold and wet. That car is so beautiful I'd never take out on a cloudy day ! The steering would give me a lake of confidence. I'm sure you'll get it all to your liking. Again, I gota say that's a Dam nice car !
That is so cool you were able to get it done enough to take it on a road trip and to make a lap on the auto cross to boot! It looks beautiful on all angles. The engine bay looks remarkable too. Very well done!
Sorry for the delay in making more posts. The last couple of weeks have been very busy for me.
As of the last post, I had two car shows left for the season. One in Crosset, AR and another in Panama City Beach, FL. The Arkansas show was a one day affair we attended just to visit with some old friends. I managed to blow the hydraulic throw-out bearing while there and had to get a friend with an enclosed trailer to come get the car. Luckily, we were only about 100 miles from home. This meant that I only had a few days to repair the car and get ready for a 460 mile trip to Florida. I was really bummed by this since it was only the second time in over 25 years that one of my cars didn't make it home under it's own power. This meant that I only had a few days to repair the car and get ready for a 460 mile trip to Florida.
I’ve known from the beginning that working on this car would not be easy. If it had been an old pickup, I could have dropped the trans and fixed it in a few hours. This car ate up the biggest part of 2 days. Of course, I did have to stop and modify my bargain basement transmission jack to actually work under my lift.
I think the slave cylinder was just defective. It appears to have blown out where the hydraulic pipe enters the slave. There is just an o-ring to seal it and the fit was much looser than I would have made it. Still, it was supposed to be a high quality part from LUK. I replaced it with one from NAPA that was the same brand. Hope the first one was a fluke. So far, the new one has performed flawlessly, even better than the one that blew. I think it was allowing air to leak in around the loose connection. It seems to go into gear and shift a lot better now. Glad it blew close to home and not in Florida.
Here are a few pictures from the Cruizin the Emerald Coast car show in Florida.
https://i.imgur.com/7dfjMec.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/44KvgvF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/b9HobZ1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/U0sdNsb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FEIdWZv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wf0Tu7e.jpg
The show had close to a thousand cars, maybe more. There were so many, it was hard to figure out what to take pictures of. Got to visit with George Poteet and see the Speed Demon streamliner he drove to over 480 MPH at Bonneville. I met him about 25 years ago, briefly, at a car show in Mississippi. He is officially the fastest man alive in a piston driven car. The record is 439 MPH , but he did a 480 MPH one-way pass. The record requires a 2-way pass for an average speed. He seemed to be having a great time letting kids sit in the Speed Demon.
On a side note, I had the only Sebring or Austin Healey at the show. There were a couple of Cobra's though. The little green car was a hit with everybody that stopped to look.
The weather was a mixed bag. Great on the down leg of the trip. Drizzly rain on the second day and beautiful for the next 2. The trip home was COLD! Temps in the 40’s and 60-75 mile per hour wind in the car makes for quite a wind chill. A week or so before we left, I decided to buy some heated motorcycle clothes. My wife questioned the expense, but by the time we had gone 20 miles, I was a genuine hero! Would have been a very miserable trip without them. Really gotta get a top built for this thing!
Oh, we did make a detour by Lambert’s Cafe in Foley, AL for a chicken fried steak and throwed roll! We try to never miss one. May be a touristy place, but the food is actually good. If you leave hungry, it’s your own fault!
Also stopped by a Buc-ee’s convenience store not far from Foley. If you’ve never been to one, I think you should stop at least once. Everyone I’ve been to had about 50-60 gas pumps and the cleanest bathrooms you’re likely to ever find on the road. Then you get into the food that is available. Everything from homemade fudge, jerky in every flavor imaginable to barbeque. If you remember the old Stuckey’s from the 60’s and 70’s, then think of this as the super Wal-mart of Stuckey’s. The things are simply huge! I’ve even heard of people making them a vacation destination in themselves. I wouldn’t go that far, but you do need to see one, if you’re close.
Wow mike great update! Loved the part of seeing George Poteet and the Speed Demon streamliner. Watched a cockpit drivers view of a 426mph run at Bonneville. I thought 105mph on my old 72 Honda 750 motorcycle was nuts when I was a kid...LOL!