1968 Plymouth Valiant 1st Gen HEMI

[Mike P]

I’ve been hunting for a body to put the First Gen HEMI I built for a while now. Originally I was looking for a 50s Dodge or Plymouth, but due to some recent back problems I decided to look for something more suitable to being able to handle daily driver duties. I settled on a late 60s-mid 70s dart or valiant.

Surprisingly they’re fairly plentiful out here, it’s not even unusual to see stock survivors being used as daily transportation. I got leads on 3 to look at this week. As it turned out they were all 68 Valiant 2 door sedans. At a glance none were exactly what I was looking for, one was way over priced for what it was. Another is basically a parts car. The last one was a turn-key “street/strip” car that was far more race than street and a lot more than I had wanted to spend.

valiant 2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


I did go over and look at it, it’s got a 508 stroker 727 combination with 8 ¾ rearend end with 4.11 gears on ladder bars and coil overs. The suspension including the mini-tubbs and sub frame connectors were very well done and being set up for the Big Block I know it will handle the weight of the HEMI.

Valiant 5 by M Patterson, on Flickr


The down side to using it as a daily driver would be getting in and out of the 6 point roll cage, trunk mounted fuel cell, open hood scoop, and the paint has enough issues that it will need to be repainted.


I did love the stance of the car.

valiant 8 by M Patterson, on Flickr

And the more I thought about the suspension work that was already done I thought it would save me a lot of time and expense building the car.

I did go for a ride in it and think I can live with the ladder bar/coil over suspension.

Long story short the seller and I came to a price and I pulled the trigger yesterday.

Plans call for pulling the engine and trans and installing my 354 HEMI and 46RH (will need to do the transmission tunnel stuff and trans mount work). I’ll probably make the front two legs of the roll cage removable. Convert back to a flat hood and original fuel tank. I’ll also probably tint the windows to make the roll cage less noticeable. I’ll put the left overs up for sale to recoup part of the cost of the car.

Going to try and go look at the parts car that is on FB market place this weekend might be a good source for a hood and odds and ends. Besides you can never have enough cars






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[v8nutz]

Wow, that is a very cool car as is! The hemi will really take it over the top.

[glennsexton]

Very nice. Good find, Mike. That 508 with a 4.11 is probably a real screamer. With a stock hood it will fool a lot of folks into thinking, "... oh here's an ol' wanna be guy with a little Valiant..." However, when the go pedal activates the HEMI they'll be in for a big surprise!

How fun to keep on hot roddin'.

Looking forward to pictures as you go.
Glenn

[Mike P]

Yeah Glenn it's supposed to be an 11 second car (and probably is is).

I've always had a soft spot for sleepers. Don't know how well with this one there's a lot of stuff to hide. Admittedly it will be about 150 CI less and at least 150 HP shy from what it currently has in it but with the the 46RH and around a 4.30 gear it should at least get out of its own way.


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[Bob Parmenter]

I've liked that series of body for a bunch of years. Never quite found the right combo of available car and ambition at the same time. The sleeper vibe is what attracted me to them ('64-9 Rambler American sedan as well). With that paint color and visible roll cage the sleeper idea sorta loses a bit, but it's still one very cool looking rig. I'm glad you decided to pull the trigger, it should be a fun project. I'll be interested to see if you like the rear suspension setup over the longer haul.

[Mike P]

".....The sleeper vibe is what attracted me to them……With that paint color and visible roll cage the sleeper idea sorta loses a bit....."

Yeah Bob it does. The colors has kind of grown on me though. The cage is definitely a giveaway but like I said some window tint may make it a little less noticeable, and is nice to have out here anyway.

The real detractor to the sleeper thing (for me anyway) will be the view of the under carriage when you pull up behind/beside it. Back in the late 60’s thru the 70s when I was cruising (yes officer I was just driving to the store…..nothing to see here), I tended to check out the cars I would pull up next to. I’d pay particular attention to; dual exhaust, rear end, tire size, traction devices (usually slapper bars back then) to get an idea of how serious the car was. As is sits this would set off all the alarm bells. LOL

Rear end by M Patterson, on Flickr

I will be running full length tail pipes, but the battery disconnect switch will go away, and the coil overs will likely get a quick coat of black paint. It’s currently riding on 10" wide steel wheels with 275 Nitto drag radials., which I’ll probably set aside for “special occasions” and downsize the rear tires and wheels a bit but I suspect when all is said and done at best it will only pass as a “thinly disguised” race car (or in this case a former race car).

“…….I'll be interested to see if you like the rear suspension setup over the longer haul…..”

Yeah so will I Bob. There is a lot of difference between a short test drive and say the hour trip up to Tucson and then back which will be a better test.



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[40FordDeluxe]

Awesome buy and very cool car! It looks like they did a nice job building the car by the looks of it. That engine bay will look even better with the 354 in it! That stroker would be perfect for my 71 Charger.

[Mike P]

It should be a fun build (ok rebuild) Ryan. I’m in the process of getting the parts together I know I’ll need (or at least the majority of them) to get the new drive train mocked up in the car.

I’ve got a core 331 over at the machine shop I’ll be picking up next week, and my friend at the tranny shop is going to loan me a 46RH/RE case and overdrive housing to use for mockup.

The big thing I’m hunting for is a stock 392 oil pan and pickup. They were only made in 57 and 58 for the 392 hemi’s and 354 Ploys and are a center sump to fit the torsion bar cars. My 354 currently has a rear sump pan. I’m kicking myself right now, there was one E Bay a couple months ago that I almost bid on but figured if I bought it I’d likely never use it so passed. If I have to I suppose I can build one in a pinch.

I also need to get the intake off the 354 on the test stand and get it over to Dave at the machine shop to mill the plenum divider down.

I’m still planning on eventually running throttle body fuel injection and was looking at a Holley Sniper, but I may be getting a Holley Terminator.

My back’s doing a bit better with new meds they have me on but I really need to get this done while I still can.

Anyway, plugging away in Arizona.


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[MP&C]

That's going to be badass... even more than it is now...

[Mike P]

Been a week of collecting parts and information.

My friend at the machine shop and I went halves on a 55 331 Hemi a while back figuring we would probably turn it and make a few bucks. We pulled the heads to verify bore size (it’s standard) and set it aside till a buyer comes along. Note to self……. “storing” parts at a machine shop is not necessarily the best solution.

Parts Pile by M Patterson, on Flickr


Anyway he got it on a stand for me, and I’ll finish the teardown next week and just bring the bare block and a couple of heads over to my shop for mock up.


MU 331 by M Patterson, on Flickr

I’ll also be borrowing a 46 RH/RE case and Overdrive housing from a friend at the transmission shop sometime next week.

At some point I’m going to want a stock hood, heater, maybe a trunk lid (rather than repairing the hole for the power cut off switch) and probably other miscellaneous pieces. I went and looked at another 68 Valiant I’d passed on earlier and decided it would be handy to have around so I bought it. There’s no motor or transmission and a couple of front replacement floor pans are just screwed in but overall it’s solid and pretty straight. Added plus it has a clear title which I transferred this Friday. The only real difference between the 2 cars when they were new is the Green car came out of Detroit and the red car was assembled in the LA plant. Another plus is I found both cars within 5 miles from where I live.


1968 PC by M Patterson, on Flickr


The seller had originally intended to build it as a race car, but ended up finding a Nova instead so this one went up for sale. At least I saved it from a SB Chevy swap. It’s a small bolt pattern car but comes with the pieces to convert the front to 5 on 4 ½ disc brakes and a few other odds and ends like the bumpers grills and trim..

Now that I have this car, I’m seriously thinking that I’ll use it for the mockup instead of taking the BB Valiant apart for now. Once I get everything sorted out I’ll transfer the stuff to the Green car, which should at that point turn into a pretty straight forward swap.

Still looking for an original 392 HEMI/354 Poly passenger car oil pan. They’re center sump. It shouldn’t be too bad to build one if I have to, but would prefer not to.

I’ve got some ideas on the exhaust but that will have to wait until I have the engine at least partially in the car.



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[Bob Parmenter]

Sounds like a good plan using the donor for mock up. Perhaps it would be worth it to do a proper install of the replacement floor pans so that when you're done swapping the other body parts you'll have a "race car" shell with a fairly decent body to sell for beer money or whatever.

[Mike P]

Kinda of thinking along the same lines Bob.

Once I get the HEMI car done, I was thinking about putting all the left overs; Body with the deck lid and hood, racing seat, fuel cell, 508 engine, transmission, mounts etc etc together as a package deal and advertise it that way and kind of get rid of everything at once if I can. Otherwise just part it out.


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[40FordDeluxe]

I don't think you would have a problem at all advertising the parts car here and selling it in minutes. I like your plan to use the left overs and sell it together. You'll definitely do pretty well either way I'm sure.

[Mike P]

I spent most of the week getting the parts ready for the mockup. I got the pistons, rods and crank out of the mock up engine and got it over to my shop and put the heads on it. I also got the bare 46RH case over to the shop.

When I get some time, I need to do some more checking on this block. It’s a 56 “Industrial” engine that came out of a Dodge truck. When I checked the casting number some references showed it as a 331 and one showed it as a 354. It also has a “W” cast onto the side. This engine is standard bore 331. What little bit of information I’ve found on the net indicates these blocks were cast with thicker cylinder walls that could be bored for either. Problem is there is so much incorrect information on the net about 1st Gen HEMIs I really need to do some more research…..and I won’t really know for sure without cleaning it up and sonic checking the cylinder walls.

I’m still looking for a 392 pan so for right now I was able to get a couple bolts started on an old 318 pan for mockup. If I have to build a pan (graft a 318 sump to rear sump HEMI pan) this will at least tell me If I have to make any adjustments to the sump location.

I really want to run aluminum valve covers but the tall covers I’ve got on the fresh 354 I have built to go in the Valiant won’t really be practical so I ordered a set of “stock height” covers like Ryan’s. We’ll see how that goes.

Exhaust is likely going to be an issue, hopefully, I can get away without having to build a set of custom headers. I’ll try the shorty headers first, but I also have a set of the square flange truck manifolds (supposedly the best flowing 1st Gen Hemi manifolds) and a couple sets of 55/56 manifolds that flow pretty well.

Yup all the stuff that went to the back shed is migrating back to the shop.



mock up parts by M Patterson, on Flickr


I’ve ordered a set of Schumacher 318 to 6 cylinder K frame mounts that should be here this week. I know they have to be modified a bit to fit the mounting ears on the HEMI but it gives me something to start with.

With luck Cade will be over Friday and we can get the parts car into the shop and I can start doing the mock-up.


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[Mike P]

So it starts.

I’ve been gathering a few parts I know I’ll need for the swap. I did find a 392 Center sump pan for it……unfortunately it probably won’t be in for a couple of weeks, but the 318 pan should do for mockup for now. I bolted the front half of the 46RH case and Hot Heads adapter to the back of the engine and started figuring out where the engine placement in the engine bay will need to be.

MU1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


After a couple of false starts it looks like this will be pretty close to where it will end up at. I’m up a little higher than the couple of Gen one HEMIs in this era of A Bodies I’ve seen but it looks like everything will clear (or be easily modified). The engine and transmission are centered to the trans tunnel (which means it’s all offset to the passenger side).


MU2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


The next step will be to modify the transmission tunnel and bracing to clear the overdrive unit. I picked up an aftermarket crossmember for the 46RH so that will let me see if the engine/trans will need to be moved fore or aft before I start on the motor mounts. It will also save some fabrication time.

I still have a few things to figure out.

I was originally going to build the frame mounts for the motor on the parts car K member (basically the drop out front crossmember) but just tack them on to transfer to the Green 68 when I do the actual swap. After looking at the motor mount setup in the 440 powered 68, the K Member is set up for spool type mounts, and I’m wondering if it isn’t one of the Direct Connection 440 K members they were selling several years ago. If it is I’m leaning towards swapping the K members between the 2 cars (kind of a shame to modify the 440 K member especially if it is an old Direct Connection piece that’s no longer available). Of course that will mean dissembling both front suspensions and transferring the components. A bit more work than I was planning but what the hey that’s why they call it a project.

The master cylinder is also going to have to be relocated. Brackets are available to either move it to the side or up. I'm leaning to moving it up but that’s still to be determined.

Also kicking around whether to transfer the heater from the parts car and add an under-dash AC unit or go with an aftermarket heat/AC unit. I’ve got an aftermarket combination unit in the El Camino and have done a couple others for customers and they do ok but I’m a little underwhelmed with them. At least that’s something I’ve got time to figure out.

It’s going a bit slower than I had hoped, mostly because of my back. On good days I can get a fair amount done, on bad days the cars sit. They’re still doing tests, I had a biopsy yesterday and a second MRI this morning so that’s 2 days shot especially as the tests are being done in Tucson, oh well, as Mom used to say getting old ain’t for sissies.


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