Thread: Followed Me Home, '33 Build

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I can't seem to find my little piece of Vixen file or I would post a pic of it. For anyone reading this who doesn't know what a Vixen file is (cometimes called a Vixen rasp), it's a flexible file with big curved teeth (8 teeth per inch) normally used for doing sheet metal straightening and shaping lead. Eastwood and other auto repair suppliers sell them. I attached a pic of one. I had a piece cut off about 1 1/2 inches long.

We used two kinds of gelcoat when I worked at Eckler's. They stocked a sprayable gelcoat in quarts and gallons and we also made our own sometimes by mixing body filler with resin (more about that later). The surface being gelcoated had to be bare fiberglass or gelcoat; there could be absolutely no paint or primer on the surface. We prepared it by sanding it with 80 grit. The commercial stuff was a polyester resin based product that contained talc (like primer). It had to be mixed with liquid hardener, just like regular resin. If the gelcoat needed to be thinned, it was reduced with liquid styrene. A small area could be applied with a brush, but the application was smoother if it was sprayed. If spraying, it had to be done immediately before it set up in the gun. After hardening, the gelcoat was sanded to final paint-readiness. If we sanded through the gel anyplace, it had to be prepped and gelcoated again!

For small areas (like your hood edges), we sometimes used a mixture of ordinary body filler and polyester resin (It's advisable to use regular body filler, not the lightweight stuff that contains glass beads). We would put a blob of body filler in a cup (butter tubs work good for this) and stir in resin until we had a brushable mixture. Then add the liquid hardener, stir it up and brush it on the prepared area.

Whichever method you choose, make sure you blend it onto the existing gelcoat far enough that it can be "feathered out" and apply it thick enough you can sand without going too thin or breaking through. If you're going to spray the commercial stuff, get a cheap gun that you won't use for anything else ($9 at Harbor Freight?) because if the stuff kicks in the gun you'll have to throw it away.

Roger, I sanded through the gelcoat on my '34 in many different places. I did not apply a new gelcoat, but I did use a catalyzed sealer before priming. Nothing lifted or bubled where I added body filler or fiberglass.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Roger, I sanded through the gelcoat on my '34 in many different places. I did not apply a new gelcoat, but I did use a catalyzed sealer before priming. Nothing lifted or bubled where I added body filler or fiberglass.

Jack,
Mine got two coats of catalyzed epoxy primer and a guide coat, then blocked to ID low's which were filed with body filler & finish sanded. Once "ready" it got two coats of epoxy primer, blocked w/ 500grit, then base & clear. I thought the epoxy primer would do the trick, and when I talked to the guy who made the body about extending the hood he never mentioned needing to gel-coat new glass, even when I called him after it revealed the edges.

i will dig my vixen paint drip file up and shoot a photo of it it was a vixen type file and i think the company that made it was stec ...still have some of my body metal / lead files left over from body work. Roger yes them are the block.s but 2000 is way to fine for a drip i know a guy that still sand out color paint to top coat clear over it with 400 grit wet. use to make up sanding blocks out of paint sticks cut them down round the corners off and use 600 wet then go up to 1000. finish to 1200 or 1500 and buff

should not need to re gell like said all it is as a polyester resin (most are) with a filler much like body filler but you can spray gell . many of the old vet guys loved the Ever Coat feather fill i used it but was to much $$ for me .i used the PPG DZ primers till the K2s came out . sounds like to me you had a issue with thiners driveing in and then coming up and out of the finish . that.s were you get rings from. i done alot or glass/SMC over the years for race cars and the air planes stuff for Jon and i block most the gell off many parts never had to much things go side ways less the parts did not have good product on them from the start. just bad gell . did alot of glass parts were they were raw NO gell and hold out was not bad as one would think for the air planes were they needed to look good and be very lite for the aerobatics planes Jon allways watch how much paint was put on so fast cover colors were a plus to keep the weight down

After getting over the initial anger of a pair of bubbles and some movement in the outer hood surface I'm going to let it cook in the Kansas summer sun and then evaluate it in the Fall regarding how to go. Everyone I've talked to says that a couple of months should have been plenty of time for total cure, regardless what temperatures it was during that time, but then something "cooked off" to cause some bubbles. Not the end of the world. Better to be looking at re-coating the hood than the top

Roger, just catching up and reading what's going on since my last post, I must say you are the poster boy for perseverance. I'm learning so much from you sharing before I paint my Coupe. Thank you for not giving up and staying with this. You are inspirational! Your car looks awesome as is!

Originally Posted by rspears

After getting over the initial anger of a pair of bubbles and some movement in the outer hood surface I'm going to let it cook in the Kansas summer sun and then evaluate it in the Fall regarding how to go. Everyone I've talked to says that a couple of months should have been plenty of time for total cure, regardless what temperatures it was during that time, but then something "cooked off" to cause some bubbles. Not the end of the world. Better to be looking at re-coating the hood than the top

to fix it will not to be re gell coated . part of it may be it is a black car and most air set resins start to move around 130 or so you have to post cure some stuff or glass needs to be very thick if air cured glass to hold up to the suns heat . i sanded most gell off as this is the first spayed in the mold if the glass part made that way many times there is void were there is not glass up to the gell then if not checked for voids. if you do not then they will pop up in the finish.i did a jegs drag 34 chevy roadster that young blood did the art for? went over every inch of the body with a nail and pop all the voids of before i started blocking it all out found many voids. i had to fill with glass filler.most voids were off the body lines . on turbo teds waymans grand national buick that was all VFN glass but the rear clip was steel and was black pick up a second place at cobo in detroit in the class were that car was placed in . on just the hood we stop counting hours of time past 40 hours in just the hood many hours on the parts

I, too, have worked fiberglass many times without repairing the gelcoat and got away with no read-out. Nine times out of ten, no problem. But when I worked at Eckler's, anything that got 'glassed got re-gelcoated. The boss didn't want that one-time-out-of-ten chance of read-out ruining the finish on a $40,000 custom Corvette (40K was a lot of money in 1981!). I'm glad all these folks have had remarkable luck with their 'glass work and we can argue about this all week, but if you've already had read-out problems once and you do everything the same way again, you will more than likely have them again in the same places. Albert Einstein once said,"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!" When you finally get around to stripping and repainting your hood next winter, why not add that little bit of extra assurance by brushing on some gelcoat over the problem areas? An extra hour or two may save some further grief.

I'm with Jim on the gel coat!!! Had a Merc body in 'glass that was the "1 out of 10"... Did some gelcoat on the bare glass areas, no more problems....

Or, the common sense rationale; If 'glass doesn't need gel coat, why do all the companies making 'glass bodies go to the extra time and expense of using it?

Some thing nobady has touched on is the quality of the resin used in the repair.
That JUNK you buy in the gallon cans @ the supply house or big box stores is not the hi quality resin that N&N uses.
Just my 2 cents and 45+ years of playin with glass, both auto and marine

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

Some thing nobady has touched on is the quality of the resin used in the repair.
That JUNK you buy in the gallon cans @ the supply house or big box stores is not the hi quality resin that N&N uses.
Just my 2 cents and 45+ years of playin with glass, both auto and marine

And that could be a contributing factor, Jerry. I know that I bought one gallon can of resin at the paint shop, but I've also bought some at the auto parts place and I can't really say for sure what I used on the hood extension. Duane didn't mention that when we talked, but then again he may have assumed I was buying from a supplier like he uses.

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

Some thing nobady has touched on is the quality of the resin used in the repair.
That JUNK you buy in the gallon cans @ the supply house or big box stores is not the hi quality resin that N&N uses.
Just my 2 cents and 45+ years of playin with glass, both auto and marine

yes i did post on junk product... post 395 and 395now every one want,s to get in a pissing contest about GELL some time s it is no more then polyester resin with some thickener in it and like i said if air cured glass panel and thin with poor product nothing going to stop it from moving . has for how much money spent on job s yep them Jon S airbactic air planes had to look better then ok .been playing with glass for over 30 years and do not miss working on the SMC parts or sanding on wing s that had carbon fiber on them

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I'm with Jim on the gel coat!!! Had a Merc body in 'glass that was the "1 out of 10"... Did some gelcoat on the bare glass areas, no more problems....

Or, the common sense rationale; If 'glass doesn't need gel coat, why do all the companies making 'glass bodies go to the extra time and expense of using it?

a fast way to put color in the finish part . when parts in the mold. ... first spayed in and top finsih many times ... NO need for filler to hide mat marks for cloth marks not need. when parts out of mold no time waiting to sand and block finish with any fillers after out of mold. not alot of skilled worker to block parts need or painters ... very fast way to make a part if using a chopper gun . BUT.. i fixed alot of gell that pop off a part when you started going after in looking for voids . if i was going to re coat the part if it was not of a good product .l would be striped of all old gell and would go epoxy West System s .OH i think mild year s like black or white glass vetts were not all glass some parts were SMC that did not have any gell on it from GM 69 and up all were SMC i worked on them to

Well, I hope you don't mind terribly, but I believe I'll continue using gell coat over bare glass. Not being an "expert" like so many others, I believe I'll continue to use the products and methods that the people who build and repair 'glass cars recommend.