Thread: 351W or 351C?

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Cleveland parts are expensive, you can get the same power out of a Windsor for equal money (but more parts). Then there's the Clevor. C heads on a W. Probably just as pricey, though.
The C is a peaky engine, where the W pulls strong all the way, just not as much top end. Had 'em both, much prefer the Windsor, but I'm talking street engines. Gave up racing years ago, ran a 302 Fairlane stock car.

Tigers83; I've built my share of clevelands and can tell you the there is good and bad for both motors. The cleveland is a great motor for building alot of power.
I don't post alot any more cause I'm tired of fighting with other people that have opions that don't know what thier talking about. I've got a couple of people that I really trust
on here for thier Input. Techinspector, Dave Severson, Mr. Mustang and one or two others. It's like Dave said what do you want to do with it. Clevelands have come down alot in price in the last few years. They have two differant kind of heads for a cleveland,2V and the 4V. Depending on what you want to do, will determine what head you use.
If you want a broad power motor, use the 2V head. This will give you a great street strip motor you'll have alot of fun with, and enough power to spank just {about} everything out there. If you want a all out race moter, just for the strip, use the 4V heads.
These heads are awsome for top end power above 4000 RPM's they build all kinds of HP and torque. Both kinds of heads need a good intake, carb and some headers.
I've never seen a street Windsor 351 leave a street Cleveland 351.
Your gonna have to build the crap out of a 351W to beat a stock 351 Cleveland. Kurt

One of the best things about the cleveland motor is the smaller main size--
And I definitely agree about the 2v / 4v head statement

And you need a good oil pan on any engine that is run in any extreme conditions

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

One of the best things about the cleveland motor is the smaller main size--
And I definitely agree about the 2v / 4v head statement

And you need a good oil pan on any engine that is run in any extreme conditions

yes the 351 W mains are the same size as a 460 but why is it evey one works with the W head it allway seamed to me the 2v head was better then a w head but the bigger C head seam to kill the low end big time?

The 4V Cleveland heads make very poor bottom end power, but with a light reciprocating assembly they will make scads of top end power, from 5,000 to 8,000 rpm on the dyno, never seen any Windsor head come close to them on power!!!!

Dart recently came out with a block that will take a Windsor crank, has the distributor location of a Cleveland, and is available with a 4.125" bore with either an 8.2", 9.2", or 9.5" deck height, just your standard 460ci small block.... Soon to be available with the dimensions I want in aluminum!!!!! When it's available in aluminum (probably early Spring) I'm going to get one and send my old Cleveland 2V heads off to be ported and flowed at Erik's. Gonna put the whole thing in a 2400 pound car and go chebbie hunting....... Should be the most fun an old Blue Oval fan like me could ever be allowed to have!!!!!!!!

PS, make up your own performance numbers, I pretty much know where it's going to be based on what those tired old cast iron heads did the last time they were off the shelf and on a car with considerably fewer cubes.....

Another good combination for you SBF guys to consider is the Boss 302 block that Ford SVT released a year or so back, with a set of either the 4V Cleveland heads, or the Aussie Clevland head.... Put in a light crank, aluminum rods, light pistons, roller cam and rockers---- Then go hunt down the mouse motor chebbie guys and show them what a high rpm engine REALLY pulls like........ That poor sbc has never seen a head that will flow like that Cleveland 4V that's been tweaked!!!!!!

PS-- Before you sbc guys unload on me with a bunch of "virtual engines" with "virtual performance", I am ready, willing, and able to put one of these together and back it up with a sizeable wager......

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Another good combination for you SBF guys to consider is the Boss 302 block that Ford SVT released a year or so back, with a set of either the 4V Cleveland heads, or the Aussie Clevland head.... Put in a light crank, aluminum rods, light pistons, roller cam and rockers---- Then go hunt down the mouse motor chebbie guys and show them what a high rpm engine REALLY pulls like........ That poor sbc has never seen a head that will flow like that Cleveland 4V that's been tweaked!!!!!!

PS-- Before you sbc guys unload on me with a bunch of "virtual engines" with "virtual performance", I am ready, willing, and able to put one of these together and back it up with a sizeable wager......

hey i do not care at all i want to do is bore /hone holes mill block rebuild heads build engines and pay bills i do not care what make it is all i care is it better after it leaves my shop

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

hey i do not care at all i want to do is bore /hone holes mill block rebuild heads build engine and pay bills i do not care what make it is all i care is it better after it leaves my shop

I know Pat.....it wasn't directed at you or the other "real" engine guys..... Anyway, maybe I should just do up one of these engines and put it in my 'Maro?????

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I know Pat.....it wasn't directed at you or the other "real" engine guys..... Anyway, maybe I should just do up one of these engines and put it in my 'Maro?????

that fine with me

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

that fine with me

I'd like to, but then I'd have to find someone as sick and twisted as me to buy it when it's done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for all of your opiniosn and your information. I think that I am going to get rid of my 351W and get a SBC.

I had Friends that owned Mach 1's with 351w and 351c engines all of them where stock or near stock and 4V engines . The 351w's where not very fast . Know the 351c 4V Mach 1's Raged . You hear how the 4V Cleveland heads with them Big Ports killed the Low end Power ? You would never now it watching them cars run . Even that 1972 Mustang 351 HO was and still is a Bad Boy right out the Box .

Originally Posted by tango

I had Friends that owned Mach 1's with 351w and 351c engines all of them where stock or near stock and 4V engines . The 351w's where not very fast . Know the 351c 4V Mach 1's Raged . You hear how the 4V Cleveland heads with them Big Ports killed the Low end Power ? You would never now it watching them cars run . Even that 1972 Mustang 351 HO was and still is a Bad Boy right out the Box .

I still have one of the Boss 351 Clevelands, 4 bolt block, steel crank, 4v heads....... Now if I could ever find "the right" car to put it in.... Thanks to Pat giving me a heads up on an eBay deal, even have the dry sump pan and most of the other goodies!!!!!!!! Need a '71 Mustang or Torino......!!!!!!!

That 351c 4V is an un-real engine . Very Powerful I would Like to see more of them being built . Not sure how rare they are these days ?

Originally Posted by tango

That 351c 4V is an un-real engine . Very Powerful I would Like to see more of them being built . Not sure how rare they are these days ?

Well, they're rare, especially the 4 bolt block.... Expensive to build is about the only drawback, think that's what scares a lot of people away from them.... Even box stock they were a strong engine, but with some CNC and flow bench time on the heads, a light (or stock lightened) reciprocating assembly and they do stay together quite well at RPM.... Always wished their popularity would have been higher so the aftermarket companies would have tooled up some aluminum heads for them..... Roush used to do some High Port Cleveland heads that really helped with the flow on the exhaust side.... The way the centrifugal blowers react so well to good exhaust flow, betcha they would respond quite well to a blower (either roots or centrifugal) with about a dozen or so pounds of boost...... Don't remember the flow numbers on them, got it on a head sheet someplace in the piles and piles of paperwork and propaganda.....


PS--We ran the high port exhaust heads back in the late 70's on a road race car I crewed on for a couple seasons--for whatever reason they moved the power band down about a thousand revs. .... great power and no failures mechanically..... sure would like to find another set of them sometime!!!!