302 Ford has been Found On the Road Dead far more than 302 Chevy. Chevy I believe has an extra head bolt. I fly Chevy. But Ford also has a fine product there also IMO. It goes to personal preference IMO.
Kitz
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302 Ford has been Found On the Road Dead far more than 302 Chevy. Chevy I believe has an extra head bolt. I fly Chevy. But Ford also has a fine product there also IMO. It goes to personal preference IMO.
Kitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitz
Perhaps because there's about 2 or 3 gazillion more 302 Fords built over the years????????
Any engine will react positively to basic Hot Rodding.... Improve the flow charachteristics of the heads, proper quench and squish, tight tolerances on machining, and a blue-printed assembly. Add the right cam to sequence the events correctly and a hot enough spark to fire it and it'll go fast....
Chevy in '69 once again "pulled the plug" on racing in most any venue...thus the Trans-Am/SCCA winning Camaro Z-28 teams of '67-68 fame lost factory backing...and the winningnest driver for the Camaro, Bruce Mclaren went to AMX.
The Chevy 302's were awesome and with some tweaking were high revving and able to withstand the strain of long distance endurance racing....something Ford 302's weren't able to do with a lot of success until the advent of the Boss 302.
Chevy management always had a love/hate relationship with racing in the late '50's thru the late '60's while Ford embraced the "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" school of thought, Thus it's embracing of Shelby, and numerous Nascar teams as well as other racing venues in the '60's and early 70's.
Fords or Chevys....??? If it were me and I could find a decent '67/68 Z-28 block I'd go with it if I was building a performance type car like a Cheetah...yet the late model 5.0 Ford can be made into quite a performer also.
You'll never convince a "Ford guy" that a Chevy is better just like you'll never convince a "Chevy guy" a Ford is better.
My belief is that back in the day the Chevy 302(Z-28) was hands down the best sb block to hot rod, built right it would rev to 7,000+ and was capable of a strong 325 to 350hp..according to what I've read the Trans-Am Z-28's often were pushing 350+hp and ran hard all day long up and down the rpm range...
you guys might want to check some of the other SCCA race winners from the 60's and 70's, not just the Trans Am class..... Shelby's near dominated in A and B production...and again it's probably not necessary to say what happened when Ford took the GT-40's to LeMans.... Chebbie brought out the Cheetah in a feeble attempt to catch the Cobra's....the Cheetah was fast, but just never had the handling that the Cobra's did.
The Z-28 was a good car, but to listen to folks talk about it you'd think it was never beaten...It was successful for 2 years in one class, then faded away... If Chebbie's 302 was so successful, why was it only a production item for such a brief time when the Ford 302 stayed in production for decades???? Money talks and BS walks...Looks like Ford made the money, guess we know where that left chebbie.......
Ain't nobody gonna win this pissin' contest!
Well, Ford won....... Just compare the production numbers of the 302 engine from either company..... Ford won in sales, the only place that counts... For whatever reason, the chebbie 302 just didn't make it in the sales department, regardless of the hype, it only stayed in production a short time then was discontinued....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister
as did chevys interest in racing.
Dave just two points
1. Yep "Shelby built Mustangs" run by Team Shelby and privateers(both Ford funded) dominated A/B SCCA classes,as well as the Cobra roadsters....these were not off the shelf Mustangs racing they were built in Shelby's facility. In '65 and 66 as well as into 67 the Shelby Mustangs were running 289's, not 302's...'68 was the first year for the 302 by then Shelby had pretty much closed up shop and the teams running from '68 on were either openly or privately funded by Ford
2. The Cheetah was not a Chevy sponsored product in any way shape or form...it was fast, engine was based on the Chevy Z-28 302 purchased under contract from Chevrolet, and it handled much better than the vaunted Cobra, more aero dynamic, better weight distribution...but it was never built in quanties enough to qualify for FIA cert. before a fire destroyed the plant...and a builders dreams and ambitions lay in ashes.
I guess we must have attended different SCCA races....I saw the Cheetah's as a bit better out ot the corners and at least even on the straights and corner entry...with the Cobra's being dominant through the apex's. Don't know the politics or who got what out the back door, but there was a number of underfunded Vette teams who mysteriously showed up with new Cheetah's...maybe they just had a friendly banker????? Bolus and Snopes, Charlie Kemp, and Ben Jones were my regional SCCA heroes, even got a chance a number of years later to work for Charlie in a car Bob Riley built for him, Roush did the engines and we made an attempt at IMSA----did OK til Hurley Haywood showed up with a ton of factory money, then we were all racing for second.....
PS--Jerry Titus was IMO the conumate SCCA competitor, anybody know if he's still doing anything with cars or if he's even still with us????
Ford was a bit more up front about their sponsorship....However I'm quite sure chebbie was still slipping a few parts out the back door to some of the boys......Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
The Cheetahs suffered from teething problems just like the early Cobras did given time it would have proved very interesting...alas we'll never know.
And I'm a Cobra fan....289 FIA Best looking and handling and fast car I've ever owned...even if it is a replica
We might someday, GR----There is a Cheetah body on the market know, heard a rumor that some Texan might be putting together a couple modeled closely after the originals....seems he has some blueprints of the originals....Heard he has talked to Joe Halliday (J&H Engineering, Houston) about an engine for them....all to go play in SCCA again.... I don't have a good solid source on it, but I've heard the funding wasn't all done.... Still lots of good Cobra's (and clones) that would love to resume the chase!!!!!!!!!! If it ever should happen, sure would be a blast!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by G.R.
I read this post from the top and there is no winner here.
There is always going to be ford camps and chevy camps and pops and I represent both. Dad has a SBC and I have a SBF and I love them both. I will say that building a chevy makes dollars and sense. While I was building the 302 Ford for the Mr Blue T I saw the chevy part at a fraction of the price of my 5.0 build. I chose a 85 mustang roller block and topped it with 73 mustang heads with a small chamber for added compression. (small comb. chamber) and I will say that every time I fire her up I smile from ear to ear. (I still will come out alot cheaper than Gastricks Hemi build for his coupe! hehe)
My 5.0 may not be what everyone would build but it makes me happy and that is what is important.
I will say that I have always enjoyed the 302 chevy whenever I came across a real one because it was so unique and had such a neat racing heritage. Don Jr.
The cool thing about this thread is you learn new stuff all the time. I never heard of the chevy cheetah until today. Never seen one either. The Cobra I've drooled over!:D
But... the cheetah looked pretty cool. For those of you like me here is one
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-20...e-1024x768.jpg
The primary reason the Chevy 302 faded was it was a "purpose built" engine and when Chevy management pulled out of sponsorship and funding there was no reason for them to keep building the engine as the engine was not a big factor in their then current production lines other than the Z-28 Camaro. Chevy did the same thing with the Corvette line after Zuntov and the boys built Corvettes to contend with the Shelby/Ford Cobras...once management found out they pulled the plug on funding. For whatever reason Chevy management did not embrace racing to prove their product line like Ford did
I saw a Cheetah clone at a vintage race a few years ago...awesome looking car basically about the size of an original 289 Cobra and several hundred pounds lighter. Engine was moved way back on the frame, no drive shaft...this particular car was powered by a built Z-28 '68 vintage backed by a Muncie T-20 rock crusher trans. Sitting still it looked wickedly fast.
Rich ______ (can't rember his last name) who owns Shell Valley, has a Cheetah clone that is an absolute rocket... he decided that if a sbc and a 4 speed was fun, he'd build his with a big block and a 5 speed!!!!! It flies!!!!!!