Newly rebuilt fe390 still smoking after intake redo. Leak Down Test? Wrong pcv valve

Sorry to keep asking for help but I am so frustrated with this motor. My engine still continues to smoke some out of the drivers side tailpipe. This is a newly rebuilt FE390 with about 400-500 miles on it. I'm guessing since the odometer is inaccurate. Engine is bored .060 over, has a race cam of unknown specs, solid lifters and heavy duty valve springs. The valve seals and guides were replaced but who's to know if I have a possible failure. I just last week re installed the Edelbrock Performer intake thinking maybe I had an intake leak from using the cork ends instead of the 1/4" bead method. The plugs all look clean with maybe just a little oil on the threads of 5 and 8 plug. Compression is roughly 130 on all of the pistons on that side once the engine is warmed up. That's me using an older compression tester and only taking out 1 plug at a time using no oil in the cylinder. Is my best solution to do a leak down test and would it indicate for sure where the problem is? I am wondering about vacuum and my pcv system maybe having something to do with this problem. I am measuring 13 on my vacuum gauge when the engine is warmed up and idling at 1000 rpms. This is a good reading I thought. Do I have the right pcv valve? I have it on the passenger side and a breather on the drivers side. PCV line is connected to my carb on the front where it's supposed to be. All I know is when we first got this engine running, we plugged the hose and tried to run the engine without a pcv line. We went down the road and the motor started smoking like crazy. Would an improper pcv valve cause this smoking and just on the drivers side exhaust. I'm sorry to be so ignorant about these FE engines but I do want to learn. This car runs like a rocket otherwise and I'm going to offer it up for sale soon. I want everything right and can't have it smoking like this. Any help would be so much appreciated. I am not giving up until I learn how to figure this problem out and solve it. Many thanks in advance for your advise.

So since you haven't done much from advice given-I'm sorta like ?????? But if you want to specificly follow some suggestions step by step in an A B A type order?????????

First , lets just disconnect the PCV completely to see if the smoke is from it sucking in the oil???????? And while its disconnected, see if any oil fumes come out of the breather cap????

Do you have any pics of when the manifold and valve covers were off the heads???????

What type seals and guides were used????????

Bless you for trying to help me. Judging by your Camaro you are much more advance than most probably on this forum. I am more than thrilled to send you a paypal payment for your advise and time spent helping me sort this out. I have by the way followed a lot of advise given on this forum but am no where near as advanced as most of you folks. The only thing I can tell you until I talk to the people who took care of these heads is that it says on my bill they used bronze valve guides and "PC" valve seals whatever that means. It's a little early here to start this car and warm it up to see about the pcv situation but I will do that in the next hour or 2. I did a small post last week entitled My FE390 Horror story with a happy ending. There you will see an image of my engine before I installed the intake.

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Originally Posted by stotzbotz

. I'm guessing since the odometer is inaccurate.
Engine is bored .060 over, has a race cam of unknown specs, solid lifters and heavy duty valve springs.
The valve seals and guides were replaced but who's to know if I have a possible failure.
Compression is roughly 130 on all of the pistons on that side once the engine is warmed up. That's me using an older compression tester and only taking out 1 plug at a time using no oil in the cylinder.
Is my best solution to do a leak down test and would it indicate for sure where the problem is? .
Do I have the right pcv valve? PCV line is connected to my carb on the front where it's supposed to be.
All I know is when we first got this engine running, we plugged the hose and tried to run the engine without a pcv line. We went down the road and the motor started smoking like crazy. Would an improper pcv valve cause this smoking and just on the drivers side exhaust. .

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stotzbotz

The only thing I can tell you until I talk to the people who took care of these heads is that it says on my bill they used bronze valve guides and "PC" valve seals whatever that means. .

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You continue to do a lot of guessing, I know many folks have offered you advice to dial in the root problem, but there needs to be facts, not a guess. To do a proper compression test, remove all the plugs, hold the throttle butterfly wide open and disconnect the ignition power. Spin the motor at least 3 cycles on the gauge. Do a dry reading first, then add a few shots of oil and do the readings again. Write down each reading before doing the next cylinder.

If you have the tools,a leak down test is a good indicator of a cylinders "health". But in each instance you must do the same protocol for each test, you cannot achieve reliable results if you are going to guess in between steps.

You ask if you have the right PCV valve, how are we to know. Have you shown a picture of it? Or maybe a part number? And reading your previous replies, it sounds like the pcv is covering up some other sin(s), there is no reason for that engine to burn more oil / make more smoke when not running the pcv, so I think you got the right one.

Bronze guides = good.
"PC" may mean the brand name Perfect Circle, also good, but they make many different types.

I know you worked with Denny and now it seems like Jerry will offer assistance, be methodical and deliberate, write down the facts and I'm sure you'll reach the real problem and then know how to fix it or move it on. :)

That pic doesn't show rocker assembly and/or rocker baffles-------------and a pic of shaft portion of distributor?????

And that's not a CAmaro in the avator -------Its a Monza with an aviator
(trying to be funny while on first cup of coffee)

can't tell if those are stock oem or aftermarket cyl heads

if i remember correctly when you got the car it was not running .. you do not know what the previous engine ran like .. i suggested several threads back that perhaps you are just now burning old oil residue from the exhaust of a poorly running previous engine .. put a few more miles on it .. if you think the PVC system is the cause you can look in the hose itself for evidence of fresh oil .. i dont remember if you have a stick or an automatic .. if an automatic check the modulator valve on the trans .. have you actually smelled of the smoke ? .. oil smoke will of course smell like oil .. coolant smoke will smell a bit sweet .. i haven`t snorted trans smoke in so long i dont remember ..

OK folks thanks for jumping in my nightmare. I really appreciate it and promise not to skip a step here. I just let my engine warm up and removed the pcv valve from the passenger side valve cover. The engine is emitting blue smoke out of the drivers side valve cover breather hole when I do this. As soon as I connect it back the blue smoke goes away. When the engine cools down enough for me to get my hands in there without 3rd degree burns I will pull all plugs and give a dry and wet test to each cylinder with the throttle fully open.

Cylinder leakage test is what you need to do-do you have an air compressor and leakage guage?


and do you know how to do it???

I have the readings from the drivers side piston cylinders.

Dry Test Wet Test
#5 150 151
#6 130 142
#7 145 151
#8 149 150

Obviously an issue with #6 but what should I do next?

Here are readings from the passenger side.

DRY WET
#1 160 162
#2 155 160
#3 160 168
#4 150 152

Keep at it this thread will help others down the like.

I've been reading thru all your other posts and find many questions that you haven't answered even tho some were repeatedly asked---Like what oil did you put in the motor and what assembly lube used on cam, lifters, bearings, cyl walls and rings????????

Do you know what Bon Ami is??????(not a trick question, but I have a process for you to try if maybe----------Its contriversicle so I won't open that subject until we're a little further down the list)

I appreciate your time spent on this as well as everyone else's. I'm not going to lie about my break in procedure so get ready to yell at me. I let the car run at about 2000 rpms for about a half hour or more. I then ran it like that again for about 20 minutes before my brother, who helped me with the rebuild, said "Lets take it for a spin". Out on the nearby country road we went with open headers ablaze. We did dog it a little in the beginning until I got my brother to smile. He had been very depressed lately after his wife passed away several months ago and it was the first time I saw him smile and actually laugh a little. Whatever I may have damaged at the time in the ring breaking in department was worth it to me. After that I would take the car on about a 40 mile drive going at various speeds. I think that I have about 400-500 miles on the engine right now.. I live in the country and was going in town later today to get the rubber tipped air nozzle so if that is my next step I'll be testing around 5:30. I hope I can hear what I need to and narrow this down. The thought of having to take the head off and dealing with those headers again really urks me but I will do what I need to do. Step by step with you good folks helping me will hopefully help other in the future.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO--What oils/lubes did you use????????????

AND_________do you know what BON AMI is???????

Does any one know what that shop has for bore/hone opts????


Since some cyliders don't seem too bad, maybe some rings are on upside down and/or wrong groove??? Anywy-a couple dollars for some BonAmi is cheaper than new gaskets-------and it works-----but things need to be installed correctly---------

I sure wish he would answer about the things I've requested------- I've dealt with FE engines since they came out in 1958 and have seen what does and doesn't work-----------

Sorry had to run into town. Here is what I used. Comp Cams Valve train assembly spray, Sta-Lube Extreme pressure Anti-seize engine assembly lube and I used Castrol GTX 10W 30 motor oil. a Ford service tech/manager for many years told me to use that. It's been changed twice already.

I thought Bon Ami was a type of cleanser like Comet. I'm listening to your idea.

Bon Ami isn't abrasive----------the old adds used to towt "never a scratch"

Any way-BA has over the years been used on varius lapping in opts-----you sprinkle it above the carb while you rev up the motor-rum, spr BA, rum, spr BA, Rum, Spr BA-----------do it over one primary port at a time, going back and forth as it will go into 4 cylinders according to your intake manifold design-alternating with sprinkle, rev, sprinkle rev sprinkle rev---------a few times and switch ventruies-
This has been used over the years on many industrial engines, race engines, aircraft engines,etc to lap in rings that weren't seated properly---------and today it seems that more and more rebuild projects are resulting like yours probably from faulty hone process and/or oil used or too easy break in procedure-------

Use up a whole can---------don't stop early------but do make sure that it goes into the carb as sort of a dusty cloud-no lumps or streams too big for the carb to mix with the inflow-----

And see if you can get some Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs BREAKIN oil

I still want to see pics of the rocker assy and oil splash shields from the top end

Here are some images for you

Hi: How much is a little? All it takes is a overlapping oil ring slinger. I am new to this forum so I don't know if this was already mentioned. You may have to tear it down to find out where the oil is coming from. This happened to me years ago. Just my 2 cents worth. Good-luck.

I am really not wanting to introduce cleaning products into this engine at this time. Especially after reading a lot of negative comments about doing so. I do appreciate the tip though as it might be fine to do. Old remedies like this can work wonders at times when other methods fail. I am having to modify a rubber tip to use to do a leak down test since the spark plug holes on these motors are so huge. It won't be til later this afternoon that I can see if anything can be found by doing this. I am so ready to get this behind me but love the challenge at the same time. I really don't want to break the motor down again so hoping there is another way to figure out and solve this problem.

I just ordered a replacement from an original FE390 so I will take care of that.

Oh yes. Totally aware of that. THey are in the proper location. I'm trying to find a parts store today that I can get a Leak Down Gauge set from. Hoping that I can hear some results and narrow this down.

That's weird. I just got back from there with it, thanks. Going to do some testing and I'll be back shortly with the results.

Crap. I can't use this kit. There is no adapter for the larger spark plug holes that these FE motors have.

I need a kit with an 18mm adapter. The mystery continues.

Since you have Ford oem adjustable rockers---------------is your block even drilled for the lifter galleys??? and/or the plugs in the galley??????

No that isn't an 18mm. I am going to try and use the hose off of my compression tester by taking out the valve stem. As soon as I find my stem remover I'm hoping it's removable. If not I'm going to need to order a kit off of Ebay. As for the lifter galley question, I have no idea. This engine was built by someone who raced cars and built many motors so hopefully they had this taken care of.

OK so I did the leak down test. The piston on problem child #6 may have gone down an 1/8 of an inch from being TDC but I'm thinking that would not have mattered. To my horror i am hearing air coming out of my dipstick tube and valve cover breather hole. The gauge was still showing about 35 and in the low range. What would be my next move? A bad ring seems like my problem or maybe this particular cylinder just hasn't seated yet or has some glazing on the cylinder wall. The thought of having to break this engine down again is at the bottom of my list. Do I have any other options at this point other than to keep driving it and see if it clears up?I wasn't sure if there was a way to tell if it's a ring issue or a cylinder issue.

What clearance are you using for valve settings?

Seems to me that where your at not wanting to take the engine down-Bon Ami over the venture that feeds the #6---------


ALSO--------change that spring set up on your throttle linkage and also move any wires/ sensor leads from that area because you are flirting with a stuck open throttle situation---------

I just wanted to add that I took readings from the other cylinders on the driver's side. #7 and #8 cylinders were showing about 25% loss which is pretty good but what's puzzling is #5 cylinder showed only 22% loss and there was also air coming through the dipstick tube. Maybe because it's the cylinder closest to the tube. I did another test on 6 and still get 35% loss with just air coming from the dipstick tube and breather hole. I understand that I should be getting some air through these 2 places to some degree if the valves are doing their job and sealing properly. The air has to escape through the tube and breather hole I would think as there is going to be some loss of air no matter what. The Bon Ami idea is starting to look better. I think that this test is at least showing that my valves are all working and sealing properly. I was told by the previous owner who built the engine to set the valves at 18 intake and 20 exhaust.

Do yourself a favor. It's about 165 miles from Tallahassee to Jacksonville. Tomorrow morning fill your car with gas, and hit the road east, preferably on something like FL 90 vs I10 - stay off of the interstate highway. As you drive through the countryside, vary your speed, not sticking to a set speed limit, and as you leave the little towns and have legal freedom, accelerate briskly up to the speed limit and then continue varying speeds. Go on through Jacksonville to the coast, maybe down to St Augustine, and find a nice spot to have lunch by the ocean. After a nice lunch, reverse direction and head home, following the same pattern. Friday when you get up, fill the tank and hit the road again, but maybe head down FL 27 to Tampa, following the same pattern of varying speeds, but include a few hard runs at WOT as you leave towns and get up to the speed limit. It's about 275 miles to Tampa, so enjoy a late lunch and head home, then maybe enjoy dinner along the way home. On Saturday start it up and take it out for a cruise, and see how your oil smoke is doing. If you're still totally focused on a little bit of smoke, use the Bon Ami trick and if that doesn't work sell the car and buy something that makes you happy. Life's too short to continue the way you're going.

I would personally at this point (even earlier) to remove engine and go thru it completely. New rings, bearings, cam bearings, recond rods , correct bolts, torque plate hone cylinders ( possibly to bigger size) align hone, deck block square to crank bore----- looks like in pics you have GT or CJ headers with 4 bolt flange and all bolts don't even look fully engage plus some discoloration on some parts of head and bolts, throttle pull needs to be redone----

Another tip------since you have pretty well proven that its rings sealing, plus other areas of questionable work---------an method of rapid ring seating used by pro stock racers back in early 70s--------put the rear end up on jackstands ( some that will not fall over) and run the engine up thru the rpms a few times--------while applying the brakes!!!!!!!!!!!! this will allow you to put a controlled load on the engine while its reving up----you will have to watch brake temps back there so maybe can only do 2 or 3 before cooling off-----and this is a strong load , not just dragging the brakes a little-------

All I've heard you complain about is a little smoke from one side, and you've confirmed with the leak down test that your rings aren't seated fully. Sure, you can tear it down and start over, but if it were in my garage I'd be taking it out and driving the P!SS out of it for the summer, and if it's still smoking in September buy a new engine from one of the reputable FE specialists out there and start again when it warms up. Oh, forgot you're in Tallahassee - drive it until it quits smoking, or you get sick of it and then buy the new, fully assembled and tested engine.
Sorry, but the answer just seems so logical to me. I'm done, and won't post here again.

Thanks everyone for your replies. No I won't be breaking it down any time soon. I took it out today for a good run and had a lot of fun as I always do when driving it. I'm going to put a few hundred more miles on it and then take some more readings just to see if they're any changes for the better. THe main thing here that I was concerned about is that this engine wasn't smoking in the beginning when it was just starting out getting broke in. This developed after the first couple hundred miles. Maybe this is normal. This is my first rebuild and I have learned a lot from everyone. Thanks for the knowledge you have shared with me. Good Karma coming your way. Thanks for putting up with my ignorance. I hope others will benefit from this.

Thanks Denny. I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep driving. :)

Mic up your Cylinders and Pistons to be sure they are within specs.