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Thread: FE390 Rebuilt Engine. Problem w/oil spray on drivers side valve cover/little smoking
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    FE390 Rebuilt Engine. Problem w/oil spray on drivers side valve cover/little smoking

     



    Hello FE experts. You have been most helpful in the past so I was hoping for some good advise here. I recently rebuilt my 68 Fairlane 500 Fastback that was previously beefed up with a race cam, solid lifters and some heavy duty valve springs. This engine has been bored .060 over and currently has about 300 miles put on it. I started to get a little bit of light blue smoke out of the driver's side exhaust. I checked the plugs 5-8 and no oil except the threads of 5 and 8. None on the insulator or tip. I removed the intake assuming the gasket on the drivers side was slightly leaking possibly sucking a little oil into the exhaust valves. I inspected the intake ports and really couldn't feel or see any oil although maybe the incoming fuel was mixing with a slight leak of oil and flushing it out. It was hard to inspect the underside of the intake gasket and tell if there was a possible problem but the bottom of the gasket at 5 and 8 port was loose and not bonded to the head like the other ones. I did use the cork ends instead of using the 1/4" bead of ultra black and this is an Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake. I'm not sure why but when I go for a small drive I would always have a coating of oil that was being spurted out of the breather on the drivers side valve cover. I'm thinking that there is too much oil building up on this side causing my problem. When I put the intake back on this time I'm going to use the ultra black bead method and use a thin coat of 3M weatherstrip / gasket adhesive on the head side of the intake gaskets. I wondered if anyone has any other pointers about the excessive oil on the drivers side. The drains in the head are clear. Should I replace the valve cover breather with a pvc valve and put a T on the front of he carb where the other valve cover is being connected? This engine does seem to have a high pressure oil pump in it. When I first start the car it shows 80psi oil pressure. Once warmed up and going down the highway it stays at about 60psi. One other thing I notice is that when the oil in the engine gets to a certain level the oil pressure gauge seems to fluctuate and not stay stable. anyway any advise from you great people would sure be appreciated as I am anxious to put this puppy back together this weekend. Many thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Sounds like your intake is not flat. Check across the ports for flatness, The gaskets that come with the Fel Pro gaskets is not a problem to use.
    Were the heads milled ?

    When you do some checking, give the results.

    Also, When you install the new gaskets make sure you torque up the intake manifold in 3 steps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    I wondered if anyone has any other pointers about the excessive oil on the drivers side.
    All these motors that we hobbyists are fiddlin' with were produced in a mass production shop, at a rate that would support maximum appreciation of value for the stockholders. It is conceivable, in a maximum production shop, to make a few mistakes along the way that, while not being right, could be pushed through the production line and out the door regardless. One such problem is that in the milling operation that cuts the block decks, a chip from the previous milling operation could miss being cleaned out from the register by the operator, resulting in the block being tipped up by the thickness of the errant chip that could lead to that bank being machined imperfectly, one end of the block to the other, to the centerline of the main bearing bore. The blueprint for the block assumes that all four corners of the block decks should be equidistant from the centerline of the main bearing bore in the block, but when there is a chip in the register, this is not possible. The finish on the block decks will be uphill or downhill side to side and will leave the cylinder heads at a cocked angle to each other. Any reasonable human being can see that this will result in the intake manifold not having a square hole to sit in when it is placed on the cylinder heads. If the gap between the intake manifold and the heads is on the upper side (outside), we can find the gap by spraying a combustible substance onto the intake manifold and listening for the motor rpm's to increase. But when the gap is on the bottom of the intake manifold, there is no way that this same operation with combustible substances will find that there is a gap between the intake manifold and the cylinder heads.

    When such a gap exists, it allows the cylinders that are affected, to pull oily crankcase vapors into the cylinders when the intake valves for those cylinders are open and there is nothing that you can do about it except to disassemble the motor and re-machine the block decks to square off the main bearing bores. Now, having said that, I suppose that if a gasket of sufficient thickness or even stacking two gaskets together could be used, that it might achieve sealing up of the space, but doing that will also stack the intake manifold up higher and mis-align the ports between the heads and the intake manifold.

    This is something that I try to hit hard when talking to newbie builders on this and other forums. You must begin with the block decks, front to back, being square to the main bearing bore and exactly 90 degrees to each other if you expect to have a quality build. And speaking of that, you must also begin with a straight and round main bearing bore, so what I recommend is checking the main bearing bore for being straight and round first, then cutting the block decks parallel to the main bearing bore after the stack of parts to be used has been determined.

    STACK: The crank radius, rod length and piston compression height added together make up the "STACK" of parts that will be used in the cylinder block. Let's say that the crank radius is 1.890", the rod length is 6.490" and the piston compression height is 1.782". If you add these three values together, you find a STACK height of 10.162". Now, if the stock block deck height measures 10.170, then milling the block decks by 0.008" would put the piston crowns at ZERO DECK HEIGHT and allow the compressed thickness of the head gasket used, to be the squish/quench dimension. This approach points to using a composite head gasket, such as the Edelbrock 7337, which compresses to 0.038" and defines the squish/quench at 0.038", just in the middle of the 0.035" to 0.045" that is recommended by most savvy engine builders. Another gasket that will work well is the Fel-Pro 1020, which compresses to 0.041", presenting a 0.041" squish/quench when used with zero deck. Using a composition head gasket will also set the motor up for using aluminum heads if you wish. Using steel shim head gaskets can allow the heads to "fret" against the solid steel gasket and lose material. A thicker composition gasket will allow some "give" as the aluminum grows and shrinks at a different rate than the cast iron of the cylinder block.

    Most newbies will shy away from doing any machine work on the block other than the boring and honing of the bores to accept larger pistons, but the cutting of the block decks to square them up costs only about $150 at a good shop. Not only will the heads sit squarely on the block and the intake sit squarely on the heads, but the static compression ratio and thus the "bang" will be closer to the same, cylinder to cylinder.

    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 03-31-2017 at 01:09 PM.
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  4. #4
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    Soooooooo---you have a pvc on the right hand side? Vented cap left side??

    Do you have the oil drain back baffles ???

    Race cam? whats vacume at idle?/

    What manifold?? Is it ported any??


    As of what you have stated, you don't have pcv hooked up as oem was (they went into special fitting in port runners), race cam has no vacume for pcv, oil build up in heads causing low levels in oil pan and erratic pressure, probably bad valve stem seals/guides, possible leakage from pushrod holes to ports--------

    And don't use ultra black----------Get "The Right Stuff" its far better, especially for FE motors

  5. #5
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    Jerry is correct the right stuff works better. Take a pointed prick punch and a hammer and make little indents on the rails of the block and bottom of intake this will give the silicon something to hold on to.
    The oil thing I had a buddy have the same issue he put the rocker arm shaft on one side up side down. Filling the head with enough oil it could not return fast enough and was overwhelming the valve seals.
    When will yours smoke the most. If its when you let off the gas that's when you have most vacume that could be pulling it through the guides or your intake issue but if its the intake you would not be able to idle very well .not sure what or how big your race cam is you should cam you engine on the RPM range you intend to use. Street cars need some vacume They should have PVC system. Race cars just run a hose from breather to one way valve to the exhaust or have a high dollar pump ether way you got to get the pressure out or it will push its way out through the seals.
    I use a moroso oil catch between my pcv valve and carb to catch any oil that might pass by the pcv. Don't want it in the intake after 500 miles open the valve and drain it not much but any is better than in the intake.. I have zero oil drip from breather.

  6. #6
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    In reference to oil coming out of valve cover breather & intake leaks

     



    Thanks folks for your comments. I got the Right Stuff and will do the the little punch spot technique for sure. I took a sharp box cutter blade and also made some little scratches on the block and intake. Very small but should help also. THe baffle in my valve cover goes down pretty low and is less than a half inch from the head when installed. I'm enclosing an image. Maybe with my higher pressure oil pump I need to cut an inch or so off of this baffle so it's not practically sticking in the oil at the base of the head. Maybe I'm using too much oil in this engine. The oil pan is stock and I was going to put 5 quarts back in and not change the oil filter as it will have some oil in it and it's practically brand new. I am running a pcv from the passenger side valve cover to the base of the carb on the front. This is an Edelbrock Performer intake. Here's an image of the motor and the baffle in the valve cover.
    Attached Images

  7. #7
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    Something tells me your high pressure oil pump is the cause of your problem.
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  8. #8
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by stotzbotz View Post
    Hello FE experts. You have been most helpful in the past so I was hoping for some good advise here. I recently rebuilt my 68 Fairlane 500 Fastback that was previously beefed up with a race cam, solid lifters and some heavy duty valve springs. This engine has been bored .060 over and currently has about 300 miles put on it. I started to get a little bit of light blue smoke out of the driver's side exhaust. I checked the plugs 5-8 and no oil except the threads of 5 and 8. None on the insulator or tip. I removed the intake assuming the gasket on the drivers side was slightly leaking possibly sucking a little oil into the exhaust valves. I inspected the intake ports and really couldn't feel or see any oil although maybe the incoming fuel was mixing with a slight leak of oil and flushing it out. It was hard to inspect the underside of the intake gasket and tell if there was a possible problem but the bottom of the gasket at 5 and 8 port was loose and not bonded to the head like the other ones. I did use the cork ends instead of using the 1/4" bead of ultra black and this is an Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake. I'm not sure why but when I go for a small drive I would always have a coating of oil that was being spurted out of the breather on the drivers side valve cover. I'm thinking that there is too much oil building up on this side causing my problem. When I put the intake back on this time I'm going to use the ultra black bead method and use a thin coat of 3M weatherstrip / gasket adhesive on the head side of the intake gaskets. I wondered if anyone has any other pointers about the excessive oil on the drivers side. The drains in the head are clear. Should I replace the valve cover breather with a pvc valve and put a T on the front of he carb where the other valve cover is being connected? This engine does seem to have a high pressure oil pump in it. When I first start the car it shows 80psi oil pressure. Once warmed up and going down the highway it stays at about 60psi. One other thing I notice is that when the oil in the engine gets to a certain level the oil pressure gauge seems to fluctuate and not stay stable. anyway any advise from you great people would sure be appreciated as I am anxious to put this puppy back together this weekend. Many thanks in advance.
    ((I recently rebuilt my 68 Fairlane 500 Fastback that was previously beefed up with a race cam, solid lifters and some heavy duty valve springs. This engine has been bored .060 over and currently has about 300 miles put on it.)).
    Did you do the ring seating in process ???

    ((I checked the plugs 5-8 and no oil except the threads of 5 and 8. None on the insulator or tip. I removed the intake assuming the gasket on the drivers side was slightly leaking possibly sucking a little oil. But the bottom of the gasket at 5 and 8 port was loose and not bonded to the head like the other ones.)).
    That's because the intake gasket is not sealing. Warped intake, not torqued by correct tightening procedures.

    ((I'm not sure why but when I go for a small drive I would always have a coating of oil that was being spurted out of the breather on the drivers side valve cover. I'm thinking that there is too much oil building up on this side causing my problem.)).
    I'm wondering if the rings are totally seated in yet.

    ((I wondered if anyone has any other pointers about the excessive oil on the drivers side. The drains in the head are clear.)).
    ((This engine does seem to have a high pressure oil pump in it. When I first start the car it shows 80psi oil pressure. Once warmed up and going down the highway it stays at about 60psi.)).
    This tells me clearances are on the large size. What is the oil pump pressure relief valve set for ? And, if running loose bearing clearances, the 60lbs cruising would be normal.

    ((One other thing I notice is that when the oil in the engine gets to a certain level the oil pressure gauge seems to fluctuate and not stay stable.)).
    Also known as pulsating oil pressure. Caused by a place where all of a sudden, it lets more oil escape in one area. Did you double check things for clearances ? And, some oil pressure gauges require an orifice to keep the gauge from fluctuating.
    The baffles look fine. As you can see, it is slotted, so the chance of picking up the oil is not likely. How ever, if you are running loose clearances, that will cause, and allow the pump to pump more oil to the top. By the way, looks like the valve cover gaskets are not seating very well onto the heads.


    Just a few things off the top of my head...
    By the way, I run a high pressure, high volume oil pump on mine, 5 quart stock style pan, and never had, or have a problem. It's all in the clearances, and building it so the engine has equal pressure throughout the total oiling system. I mean, you wouldn't want to run 3 thousandths on the mains, 2 on the rods, when the cam bearings are 1, right. That would mean the cam bearings would starve for oil, and with the big bearing clearances, it would suck a stock pan dry. Remember, clearances equal the rate of leaking.

    Attachment 67261
    Last edited by DennyW; 04-01-2017 at 01:58 PM.

  9. #9
    vara4's Avatar
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    I just don't like that tin stamped valve covers, chromed or not.
    I always ran the Aluminum valve covers when I ran my Fords or you end up trying to Peen all the bolt holes
    with a ball peen hammer, and that still does not guaranty that they won't leak.
    I'd also be checking the connection for the oil Pressure where it connects to the engine Block.
    Make sure that's not leaking or spraying with that much oil pressure.
    I would open the hood start the car run it up to 3,000 rpm's and stand there and see if you can see any leaks, for a while.
    I still keep a set of tin valve covers that I cut the tops out of that can be bolted on so I can adjust or look for problems in the valve train while it's running.
    Best of luck let us know what you find. thanks.

  10. #10
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    you say you have a solid lifter cam .. show us your rocker arms ...
    iv`e used up all my sick days at work .. can i call in dead ?

  11. #11
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    FE390 solid lifter rocker rail

     



    Here ya go.
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  12. #12
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    Some basic FE considerations-----

    There has never been replacement aftermarket valve covers made that worked

    Your oil pressure line to your guage is too small and will create quite an occislation of readings as rpm varies even slightly with high pressure/volume pump

    What fuel pressure and carb ?

    Distributer is ported or manifold vacume advance??

    Bafffles for the rocker arm assemblies ?????????

    Oil restrictor to rockers?

    Shaft orientation???

    How much vacume does PVC pull at valve??

    Is Vent /Cap on left cover baffled??

    Carb base plate gasket on correct so as not to block vacume routings?

    Cylinder leakdown and/or compression check??

    Valve clearance??

    what do plugs on 1-4 look like??

    What valve seals used??

  13. #13
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    Them tin valve covers always leaked on the Ambulance motors we built.
    Even if we peen all the bolt holes used rubber or cork or what ever, they would go a few weeks or so and start leaking.
    We started to put the Aluminum valve covers on all the Ford big block motors we built and no more problems.
    I guess because they have a wider lip on them. A short time later they started putting Diesel motors in them,
    Which was good because it slow'd the lead foot Ambulance drivers down in Michigan that kept blowing up $20, 000
    motors. Our head Mechanic actually went to see how they where blowing up these motors. They would get a call in a small town
    250 from no where and be pushing those big flat Para Medic units at 120 or 130 MPH the whole way pushing that wind, oh ya both ways.
    That didn't happen after they went to Diesel because they were governed at about 80 mph. I left there about the time the Diesel started to come in.
    Had I known what I know now, I would have stayed and let them put me thru Diesel school. LOL!!!

  14. #14
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    The gaskets would suck out of the gap on the chromed aftermarket covers because no inner lip to keep gasket in groove and the fold was a radius from the stamping process--------I think this started with the PCV pulling vacume against inside edge and a cork type gasket wasn't proper/best type of seal ---------

  15. #15
    stotzbotz is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    The valve covers that I bought and the aluminum ones that I got with the car measure 6 1/2" wide between the edge lips. With the Edelbrock Performer intake on, the full head width on top is just 6 1/8" wide. This is the reason for the mis alignment.

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