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Thread: 390 Oil...where is it going?
          
   
   

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  1. #16
    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    There are tools for putting a spiral in the guides that do help with the lubing of the valve stems--

    If the guides are worn too much, knurling won't bring them back to an acceptable condition, even with the tools that roll the thread shape vs the type that sorta taps it. Valve guide condition, clearance, type of seal and oil used can either prolong the life of the job or severely shorten it. I have repaired hundreds of heads that had knurled valve guides, especially in the middle to late sixties and then of course into the unleaded fuel 1970s.

  2. #17
    Merc 006's Avatar
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    I do see the "problem" with 10 lbs of pressure at hot idle...but as soon as there's any throttle it goes up...At a cold start, the relief valve is set at around 75 psi (it stays there untill warm), so it won't blow the filter off.

    The way I figured the dipstick was wrong = I found a wee little scratch mark that PERFECTLY matches 5 quarts in the pan...hmmm...common sense hopefully. I strugled with the whole oil capactiy thing for a long time...I ALWAYS put 4 in the pan and 1 in the filter, untill I got an oil pressure gauge, and realized it'd start dropping when accelerating...I put the extra quart in and bam, NEVER lost pressure. The SAE 50 was more of a test, and makes 40+ psi cold idle...but once it all warms up (190-210 degrees, sometimes more in traffic), it'll go down to 10.

    I'm dealing with 100 degree plus days here on a .060 over engine with a radiator that's too small, so I'm not exactly worried about low idle pressure...everything runs low down here...I know guys with fresher motors needing to run 40 weight to avoid problems...I'm hoping to get the damn thing running for a while, eventually I'm looking at going to a 385 series motor. I've got a 1971 460 chilling in the garage...

    Like I said I checked the number 3 bearing and it looked brand new...the mechanic helping me said that if one looked like that, there wasn't a need to check the others...He's been in it for 40+ years, so I listened to his explanation lol.

    I didn't check the rings, but before I tore it down it wasn't smoking, so I'm hoping it'll go away soon, I checked the oil after running it yesterday, none gone, so I'm hoping it'll stay that way.
    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

  3. #18
    Merc 006's Avatar
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    I've heard the intake gasket theory before, and if it persists, I'm seriously contemplating replacing them.

    Thanks for all the input those who answered the question, greatly appreciated. <--NOT SARCASM.
    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

  4. #19
    Mike P's Avatar
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    Look believe me I know about building on a budget and trying to go fast on as few dollars as possible....been there done that.

    190-210 temperature is not out of a safe operating range (I live in SW AZ and often drive in 100degree plus days....so don’t use the high outside temperature to me as an excuse. If you think 10Psi is acceptable keep in mind that the idiot lights usually come on at 9PSI. There is a reason for that ....the engine doesn’t have enough oil pressure. Thicker oil and a HV oil pump is nothing more than a band-aid.

    There was probably a reason that.....”... Soon, the rocker arm shaft on the drivers side exploded.....and that ....... checked main bearing number 3 (looked brand new), ......” like someone had had already tried to patch together a worn out engine.

    All I’m saying is that it sounds like from what you have described is a worn out engine. Can you make it go a while longer..... probably, but I would treat it with kid gloves Don’t delude yourself that everything is ok and try to run it hard or you will quickly be able to see what the problem was thru the big hole in the side of the block.
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  5. #20
    Merc 006's Avatar
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    Well, in all honesty it was more or less my fault the rocker arm shaft exploded. It was the stock non-adjustable type, and I had not yet heard of the acceptable method of torquing it down in a sequence at a certain point on the balancer...so I missed a bolt, and I should've recognized the ticking of it wiggling loose (the bolt wiggled loose, broke, bent the shaft...on a cold start). It ran fine with the occaisional idiot flicker before I tore it down, but that was with only 4 quarts...probably less, considering my first oil change I went by the dipstick, which turned into 3-1/2 in the pan...I just pulled number 3 cause I took a guess, it was smooth, no abnormal/excessive wear. When I removed the lifters, the cam lobes were clean, and an even wear pattern existed on each lifter, the mechanic helping said it actually looked rather fresh. I really don't trust motors I havent been through entirely, so I'm not flogging the crap out of it pretending its some sort of miracle car. I don't know the entire history, but when I bought the car, I was told (word of mouth, credible, right?) that the motor was rebuilt around 10 years ago. Like I said, not much more than 2,500 from point A-to-B stuff, and the occaisional 4,000+ hit whenever I feel my foot gain weight...

    I understand the whole worn engine thing, I know its no spring chicken with tolerances, but I don't quite see it as worn out as I believe you're implying. I've had pieced together motors, in particular that '71 460 wasn't exactly 71 on the top...or anywhere else, and there's a reason its not out on the street. I'm not disputing anyone's inteligence or anything, and I'm actually quite hesitant to show my doubt in your input, as it IS perfectly logical. I'm going to actually look into the fuel pump diluting the oil, because the first day with the SAE 50, hot idle wouldn't drop below 20 for a good while, so that's my next idea.
    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

  6. #21
    Merc 006's Avatar
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    Well great news today! Started it up and after warming up (180) it was around 20 psi at idle, wouldn't drop. It got hotter (190-200) and was at 15 psi. At the max heat I've had today (damn traffic) (215) it was still at 13 psi. Awesome...better than before. I'm looking to keep her running, so this pleases me...
    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

  7. #22
    34_40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merc 006 View Post
    Well great news today! Started it up and after warming up (180) it was around 20 psi at idle, wouldn't drop. It got hotter (190-200) and was at 15 psi. At the max heat I've had today (damn traffic) (215) it was still at 13 psi. Awesome...better than before. I'm looking to keep her running, so this pleases me...
    Good news for sure! Personally, I wouldn't run a single weight oil! My current preference is a synthetic 10w-40.. just mho! 8-)

  8. #23
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    The guy who is doing my Sons heads said exactly what Jerry said about knurling. He said it doesn't work, at least for very long. We explored that possibility when we were using all that oil and he said to forget it and do it right.

    On another note, I reread all the replies to this new member and saw NOTHING that could be considered anything but helpful. But all of us who have been on forums long enough realize some people drop in, ask for help and really don't want to hear what they are told, and then they move off. I suspect that will be the case with this guy too.

    Don

  9. #24
    rspears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itoldyouso View Post
    The guy who is doing my Sons heads said exactly what Jerry said about knurling. He said it doesn't work, at least for very long. We explored that possibility when we were using all that oil and he said to forget it and do it right.

    On another note, I reread all the replies to this new member and saw NOTHING that could be considered anything but helpful. But all of us who have been on forums long enough realize some people drop in, ask for help and really don't want to hear what they are told, and then they move off. I suspect that will be the case with this guy too.

    Don
    I agree on the helpful advice, but Merc006 responded yesterday thanking everyone for their input, and again today with an update. I hope that he's here for the long haul!
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

  10. #25
    pat mccarthy's Avatar
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    on iron guides i use a 502 spiral cut guide. i like the added oil on the stems and use them. much like a remflow.. snake skin stem valves will add oil to stem/guilde free up hp .when they are just a wee bit loose i knurled them in lower dollar jobs . like louey said long as the guild s are not beat out it works good .i feel that a straight wall iron guilde could use abit more oil for hp use. i try to used manganese bronze in most head builds as the manganese is hi zinc and helps lube the valve stem. i can see a machine shop selling you guides as i am sure they make more money putting in guildes . i know i do.. some guys look down on some things thinking there is only one way to do a job .just like knurled pistons is good fix and holds more oil on the skirt .many guys just do not have the tools to do some jobs so they may bad mouth a job were there way may be faster or they make more money or both
    Last edited by pat mccarthy; 10-11-2011 at 02:43 PM.
    Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip

  11. #26
    Merc 006's Avatar
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    Well...I'm planning to stick around to anyone who "doubts" this. Despite certain "opinions", I don't base my knowledge, or anyone elses, on forum posts...but I digress.

    Either way, the intake stopped leaking, so I'm not too worried, and the oil is sticking around, so I'm still good. My only worry is 10-13 at idle is still pretty low, and 35-45 @ 2,100 is spec...despite my high volume pump...
    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

  12. #27
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    It doesn't really take a whole lot of wear on the bearings in the engine to effect oil pressure.. Even on a fresh engine, loose bearing fit can cause low pressure at idle. Not just the main and rod bearings, but the cam bearings are probably just a bit loose causing the low pressure at idle. As long as it picks up when you touch the gas pedal, think it's probably something that you can live with. Heck, if you're eventually replacing it with a 460 think I'd just run it as you are doing.... Had a 460 in a pickup a number of years back that had the same issue on low pressure at idle, used it and abused it as a work truck/hauling truck for another 5 or 6 years and the engine held together just fine....

    Anyway, one Blue Oval guy to another, sure would like to see some pics of the car! One of my favorite years and body designs!
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  13. #28
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    kind of an odd thing to see such a motor in but somewhere iv`e got a picture of a 67 ford galaxie with a 427 and a 4 speed ..
    iv`e used up all my sick days at work .. can i call in dead ?

  14. #29
    Merc 006's Avatar
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    It picks up pretty nice...cam doesn't come in till about 2k anyway, so sluggish at first, but after 2, especially after 3, it hauls like nothing I've ever had...the reason I said 5,500 = I back off and shift, but even there it's still pulling. It warms my heart to watch the tach and oil pressure go at the same rate lol...

    As far as picks of the car, I'll do that I just need to figure out how to work this thing (I'm on an iPad)...
    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

  15. #30
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    -1967 Ford LTD 2 door Fastback 390 C6 Ford 9 in.-

    -Mike

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