Thread: lookin for paul kane

Tweet

I was directed to this forum earlier cuz i posted in the fe big block forum about my 429. I have a 72 ford gran torino, my first car. I managed to buy it back a few months ago and am thinking about getting back on the road. I bought a 73 429 for it and found some 1970 dove c heads. I am just curious what kind of potential this combo could have. I plan on cruising it regularly so i would like to have a good powerful engine that will last a while, somewhere between 4 and 500 horsepower. i like a lil lope but would like a valve train that i dont have to adjust all the time. And would hope to achieve this on a "modest" budget. any info would help. thanks for reading!

Paul pops in occasionally, and always has good solid advice. The 429-460 engines are his speciality. Until he shows up, here are a couple of things I have learned from building a 460 I have sitting, waiting for me to build a drag altered for it to go in.

The first thing I learned it that in their stock form they are strong, powerful engines, and while you can build one to fit most budgets, they aren't cheap. Everything you purchase for them seems to be about twice as much as let's say a Chevy engine.............but that seems to be the case even when playing with a 302 Ford............parts are just a little more, regardless of what the part is.

The DOVE heads are said to be among the best, but mine are D3VE heads
with big ss valves and Harlan Sharp roller rockers and Comp Cams springs. This engine seems to like a hot cam, and normal stuff like an aluminum intake, carb, and headers makes a big difference. I have a roller cam for mine that has something like .700 lift, if I recall.

Now we'll let the guys who really know take over.

Don

Josh what Don said is very true, but if you shop around and watch ebay you'd be suprised at the bargains you can find. Until Paul gets here, what Don said about the aluminum manifolds and carb carb set ups is right on. Not only will it increase your performance but it will drop the weight of your engine by a lot! Aluminum water pumps will further drop the weight factor. If your looking for numbers, try Edelbrocks site. They make matched intake, cam and carb sets for this engine. I think Paul can also steer you in head modifications to get even more horsepower, but you probably won't need to go that route for 400 hp, I'm guessing it's just a combo of cam, intake, carb, and piston setup. Headers will help. Do you plan to rebuild it yourself or do you intend on sending it out to a shop? The reason I ask is I bought my long block rebuilt from a shop in Wa. that was cheaper than having it done locally. I also was able to get new parts like the intake and water pump off ebay for about 1/2 to 2/3rds what they were going for at any parts store. So hang in there, it's a good solid bullet proof engine when your done!

I run a 29 with just cam, headers and intake in my 57. Good street motor. It
does have DOVE heads. I'm happy with the performance for a street motor.
Paul hangs out on the 460 forum website also.
http://www.460ford.com/forum/index.php

Josh
The 1970 CJ and the SCJ heads have the smallest combustion chambers and had
11.3 to 1 compression. Which the hp for the CJ was 370 and the SCJ was 375 hp.
They had a chamber size of 71 to 75cc's the 70 dove heads had about 75 to 77cc chamber size and had 10.5 to 1 compression and 360 hp with a 4V carb.
Like the other guys said do a little work and you'll be right up there inbetween
4 and 500 hp. Kurt
PS. the heads in 73 dropped to 90cc's with 8 to 1 and only 197 hp because of the heads.

Wow, thats a lot of good info! Thank you all very much for your time and interest. Makes me feel good about the engine i bought. I guess now the only issue will be grinding out all the bondo I put in there when I was 15 hahahah!

Originally Posted by josh bichard

I bought a 73 429 for it and found some 1970 dove c heads. I am just curious what kind of potential this combo could have. I plan on cruising it regularly so i would like to have a good powerful engine that will last a while, somewhere between 4 and 500 horsepower. i like a lil lope but would like a valve train that i dont have to adjust all the time. And would hope to achieve this on a "modest" budget. any info would help. thanks for reading!

Hello Josh,

My online access is limted for the time being; I apologize for my tardy reply.

A 1973 429 with a D0VE head swap will net you about 8.7:1 compression ratio, perhaps a little more with a 0.030 overbore and zero-decking the block.

You did not mention whether you intended to rebuild the entire engine or simply do the head swap and run the engine as-is. If running as-is (with a D0VE head swap), you might generate perhaps 300 hp with a free-flowing exhaust and bigger then OEM carburetor such as a Holley 750.

Add a mild camshaft, straight-up double roller timing chain, a distributor with an aggressive advance curve, and then 375 hp is quite possible with excellent reliability.

I suspect that the above is about where you might want to stop budget-wise, but if you port the heads and add more cam then mid-400's is possible. Without porting the heads, the necessary cam is big enough that valve train maintenace can become somewhat regular.

Paul

Well, there you are Paul!
Just noticed that you posted. I do plan on rebuilding the entire engine. I am still thinking about the build on where I want it to go. Since I am a beginer, I want to get everything straight before I go buying parts. I'm not to worried about gas milage, or even maintainance like vlalve train adjustments"as long as I am confident on how to do it". I have thought about maybe getting a 460 crank. What do you think? I do want to port the heads but I am not familiar with that and would worry that even if I had someone do it that I would not be able to tell if they did a good job or not. I am prepared to have a tranny and a rear end built to handle the power."c6 and ford 9"
And as for the distributer curve, I am clueless. I thought about getting one of those ford HEIs. Do you have any experience with those?
Anyways thanks for readin paul, and feel free to input at anytime with more advise

Originally Posted by josh bichard

I do plan on rebuilding the entire engine. I'm not to worried about gas milage, or even maintainance like valve train adjustments"as long as I am confident on how to do it". I have thought about maybe getting a 460 crank. What do you think? I do want to port the heads but I am not familiar with that and would worry that even if I had someone do it that I would not be able to tell if they did a good job or not. I am prepared to have a tranny and a rear end built to handle the power."c6 and ford 9"
And as for the distributer curve, I am clueless. I thought about getting one of those ford HEIs. Do you have any experience with those?

I am a fan of getting the most bang-for-buck out of the OEM parts. It's too easy to get steered to aluminum heads and roller cams, etc, when your particular hp goals do not dictate their use. 400-500hp is easy with the factory iron, and so $2000 aluminum heads + $1000 roller cam/valve trains are a misuse of funds in a case such as yours. Besides, wouldn't you just love to pop your hood and show the guy that you just beat that your engine is stock appearing while he used all those fancy aftermarket parts?

I do realize, however, that making use of the facotry iron often means knowing the tricks of the trade. But at your hp level it's not too difficult and can be very, very reliable.

I would suggest the 460 crankshaft because it's a "free" 31 cubes and more importantly your piston options multipy twenty-five-fold. 429's and 460's, for any given year of production, are the exact same engine except for the cranksaft and pistons....all other parts are identical. So get the 460 crankshaft...we sell them for $85, for example, and isn't that the cheapest cost of a "stroker crank" that you've ever heard? You should have no trouble finding one in your neck of the woods.

I would suggest a forged piston with a 22cc dish top (this is a common dish size). With your D0VE heads and 460 crankshaft, you would be at about 9.6:1 comrpession ratio with a zero-decked block.

Get the D0VE heads ported. This is going to cost you some money but it is worth every penny. Good cylinder heads play a monumental part in engine performance. Typically they are ported intake and exhaust and fit with oversize valves. Cost varies from one person to another, and you usually get what you pay for. Most importantly, be sure to use a cylinder head porter that knows these D0VE heads well. We can do this for you, can give you a quote, and/or you may also shop around. Call me or PM me if interested.

For between 400-500hp in this build, a CompCams XE284H can work. This is an hydraulic lifter cam and maintenance will be as low as is reasonable, given the performance level of the engine. Requisite valve train compenents that go with it, of course (proper springs, retainers, pushrods, etc).

For your wide rpm street use in the larger 72 Torino, an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and Holley 850 would work very well.

Yes, the OEM Ford Dura-Spark distributor and electronic box are the way to go. The distributor must be recurved for performance use.

C6 and 9-inch r/e are a good idea. This engine would benefit from a stall converter that has a stall speed higher than stock. Where you want to go is up to you, but if it were me I'd be happy with a 2500 stall. Higher would help but (to me) would be a bit of a nuisance on the street over time.

Most imortantly, do your homework and learn about these engines as much as you can before you being building. What you don't know can bite you int he you-know-what and cost you your entire project.

Paul

Thanks Paul,
That is a lot of very in depth info. I'll do some research and will probably be getting back to you about getting the heads ported. Once again, thanks for your time and interest.