Thread: New or Same Head Bolts

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Hey guys, I just got my heads rebuilt and put new studs, guide plates, and will be using Comps Rollers. Plan on puttting back together this weekend and I'm in the process of ordering gaskets etc. Would like to know, should I use new head bolts or is it ok to use the original? Ford 429

Get new head bolts, your old ones have been stretched a little and won't torque the same as new ones. New bolts are cheap enough not to take a chance on.

Thanks, I thought I heard that somewhere before. At $170 for a set of ARP just wanted to make sure. I am going to need a radiator for long too and $$$$$$ is tight down south.

429s and 460s use a massive and strong 9/16-diameter head bolt that handles a torque/clamping force of a whopping 135 lbs-ft. (Compare to chebby's 7/16 bolt which is torques to 65/75 foot pounds.) The original 429/460 head bolts are very strong and of high quality, and if well preserved can be reused over and over again in most applications, certainly most naturally aspirated applications.

Many moons ago (before there were 460 parts everywhere), the car pictured below ran 7.20's in the quarter using an unmodified oem useed 2-bolt block (4.44" bore), oem used 460 cast crankshaft, oem used iron passenger car heads, oem used main bolts and oem used head bolts. The Moroso calculator put HP at over 1800HP.

(Kids, don't try this at home; your results may vary )

Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

429s and 460s use a massive and strong 9/16-diameter head bolt that handles a torque/clamping force of a whopping 135 lbs-ft. (Compare to chebby's 7/16 bolt which is torques to 65/75 foot pounds.) The original 429/460 head bolts are very strong and of high quality, and if well preserved can be reused over and over again in most applications, certainly most naturally aspirated applications.

Many moons ago (before there were 460 parts everywhere), the car pictured below ran 7.20's in the quarter using an unmodified oem useed 2-bolt block (4.44" bore), oem used 460 cast crankshaft, oem used iron passenger car heads, oem used main bolts and oem used head bolts. The Moroso calculator put HP at over 1800HP.

(Kids, don't try this at home; your results may vary )

Paul

What Paul is not telling you is that the Big block Chevy uses more head bolts spread more evenly across the surface of the deck which will seal your head gasket better.
Used head bolts in a "blown application"?
Even ARP wants you to check for bolt stretch.
Why take a chance on used fastners that may be 30 years old and have 5+ torque cycles on them.
Yes, kids don't re-use head bolts or any other bolts in any blown application.

Replacement bolts = cheap engine insurance.

I would go for studs for better clamping rather then bolts - and they are cheaper.

P/N ARP-155-4003 with hex head nuts, @$153 from Summit(the 12 point nut versions are out of sight pricewise)

Originally Posted by IC2

Replacement bolts = cheap engine insurance.

I would go for studs for better clamping rather then bolts - and they are cheaper.

P/N ARP-155-4003 with hex head nuts, @$153 from Summit(the 12 point nut versions are out of sight pricewise)

If you go for head studs, be sure you can slide the head off without doing a lot of extra work.

I assembled the 462" Buick engine in my roadster on an engine stand.

Not too far down the road I pulled the heads to machine for Teflon guides and different springs.
I found the right side head would not come off due to a conflict with the 32's sticks-out-a-touch front body mount.
Had to pull the ARP studs which isn't too bad, but the two end ones are down in a well.

Last time I had the head off, I stuck ARP head bolts in it.

Kinda funny looking, but no one has ever commented about the right side bolts and left side studs.

Sorta like my pal from back in the day, he showed up with his flathead powered 49 Ford coupe with an aluminum head on one side and a factory head on the other.
Ran ok, kinda made folks wonder though....

I guess my next motor is going to "have" to be a stock parted 460 stroker,max effort design.Utilizing almost all factory parts,pistons and rods have to go,....but the rest will make smiles!!!!!
Heres a pic,just for Erik....

Mempho,

Tell us more specifics about your build, such as compression ratio, intended rpm range, hp target, engine application, fuel usage (alcohol, race gas, pump gas, etc.), iron or aluminum heads, etc. That will help determine the use of the proper head bolts.

Most people I know use the oem 429/460 head bolts to over 13:1 compression ratio without incident.

Paul

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

I guess my next motor is going to "have" to be a stock parted 460 stroker,max effort design.Utilizing almost all factory parts,pistons and rods have to go,....but the rest will make smiles!!!!!
Heres a pic,just for Erik....

shawlnee,

That pic looks like a factory iron head that was modifed a la early-style Blue Thunder's iron head exhaust ports. (BT's iron head is not in production.) The Mustang flopper car in my post above had similar portwork, although technically different...and was excecuted long before BT released their heads.

In the correct application they can make some good power.

Paul

Originally Posted by shawnlee28

I guess my next motor is going to "have" to be a stock parted 460 stroker,max effort design.Utilizing almost all factory parts,pistons and rods have to go,....but the rest will make smiles!!!!!
Heres a pic,just for Erik....

Very nice.
What are your final port dimensions??
What are your flow numbers??
What is your intake to exhaust flow ratio??

Talk about a can of worms. This one is full of information and all appreciated. Seems there some Big Chevy worms in there too. Paul, what I've gotten myself into is that I had a set of those notoriously bad 72 heads, D2VE. Man talk about ping! I weighed my options and while I would have liked a set of aluminum heads I tried going the conservative route. I got what I thought was a good deal on a set of c9ve heads for 250.00 but then had to spend another 500.00 getting them rebuilt. Then the new studs and guideplates. Not really shooting for anything but a smoother running valvetrain. Paul, if I'm not mistaken want these heads increase the compression somewhat? When I put this 72 429 in my 56 Ford truck I had never heard about the bad heads, shoulda done my homework. By the way, I should have my new 12 point ARPS delivered tommorrow. Thanks again guys for all the info, the Hot Rod Brotherhood is Alive!

Originally Posted by erik erikson

What Paul is not telling you is that the Big block Chevy uses more head bolts spread more evenly across the surface of the deck which will seal your head gasket better.

And what Erik is not telling you is that the Ford has the true symmetrical bolt spacing, the thicker cylinder head deck on the block, the blind head bolt holes, the stronger head bolts and the better block material...to name a few of the features that enable the better head gasket sealing than the chebby.

But I digress, I can understand a chebby enthusiast's disbelief at what the stock Ford parts can support...afterall, had the race car in my post above been built with passenger car chebby parts it most certainly would have grenaded to smithereens.

Paul

Originally Posted by Mempho

Paul, what I've gotten myself into is that I had a set of those notoriously bad 72 heads, D2VE. Man talk about ping! I got ...a set of c9ve heads...Not really shooting for anything but a smoother running valvetrain. Paul, if I'm not mistaken won't these heads increase the compression somewhat? When I put this 72 429 in my 56 Ford truck I had never heard about the bad heads, shoulda done my homework. By the way, I should have my new 12 point ARPS delivered tommorrow. Thanks again guys for all the info, the Hot Rod Brotherhood is Alive!

Your compression ratio will increase approximately 1.4 points, give or take. Did you have a very slight oblong dish or a flat top piston? Start with pump gas premium.

OEM 429/460 head bolts are more than adequate in your application. The upgraded ARP bolts will be nothing more than "show" and are better held for a performance build...even though you likely won't need them for most any street driven 460. But they won't hurt anything either. BTW, I know of a single carb rear engine dragster currently running a 533 cubic inch engine (4.44 bore x 4.300 stroke) that dyno'd at 882 hp, and it's using stock head bolts.

Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

Your compression ratio will increase approximately 1.4 points, give or take. Did you have a very slight oblong dish or a flat top piston? Start with pump gas premium.

OEM 429/460 head bolts are more than adequate in your application. The upgraded ARP bolts will be nothing more than "show" and are better held for a performance build...even though you likely won't need them for most any street driven 460. But they won't hurt anything either. BTW, I know of a single carb rear engine dragster currently running a 533 cubic inch engine (4.44 bore x 4.300 stroke) that dyno'd at 882 hp, and it's using stock head bolts.

Paul

An 882hp engine that has stock head bolts??
Why take a chance??
When you can buy after-market head bolts/studs from ARP.
The last set of ARP head bolts I bought for a BBF was around $100.
$100 seems like very cheap insurance on a 882 hp engine.
Do you by chance re-use rings and bearings??
It has become rather apparent that you don't take engine building as serious as I do.