How does the cold temperatures affect the burning of these fuels?
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How does the cold temperatures affect the burning of these fuels?
Mixing in a bit of Nitro with either Methanol or Ethanol works fine....Just have to watch your percentages very closely or you get into piston meltdown.... (Don't ask me how I know this!)
Nitro is a self oxiginating(sp?) fuel and needs high compression to light. But it does burn hot. I knkow people that use it around 4-6% in the colder weather when they burn alky
This will no doubt sound like a stupid question but I have to know. . .
Can any amount of nitro be mixed with gasoline in a regular (non top fuel) vehicle for a bump in horsepower?
I've had friends do this through the yrs, for a little more power etc.
From what I've seen in a situation where gas is the normal fuel it eats up
normal fuel lines, carb parts etc. Can be a real pain. I'm sure it would
be better if you were set up for alc.
What do you mean set up for alcohol?Quote:
Originally Posted by shoprat
I'm thinking if the carb was for alc, as in gaskets, orings etc, and the fuel lines were the proper ones and the pump wouldn't be eaten up maybe a
small amount could be poss. They mix nitro with alc for a reason. I never
tried it myself, the racing gas cost enough and I didn't want to ruin my stuff.
I just had a friend that used to put some nitro in his Chevy at the Drags,
and I didn't think it was worth the headache.
I guess there is no easy way to horsepower. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by shoprat
alkie is a bit*h to burn when its cold outside. besides that 70 weight oil needs some warm weather to flow:D
For info on 'nitromethane' as a fuel, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/nitromethane,,, for more go yet, don't rule out a 'dash' of hydrazene,,, good luck :-) Peter
hydrazine is sucicide :LOL:
you need to stir the mix up with a big wooden spoon ..stir not shaken:eek::LOL:
I suggested reading the link ''before'' adding a dash of hydrazine. Actually, young hotrodders are so similar to us old guys. I was no different and wanted the biggest bang for the buck,,, albeit, I paid dearly in lunched engines and other failed components, but the price was worth the knowledge gained,,, it's getting passed on to the next generation that will try ''experimental chemistry'' and it's benefits and consequences,,, you are right though,,, playing with hydrazine is playing with with fire. :-) Peter
Yes Pat,,, exercise extreme caution while blending fuel,,, oh,,,, and keep glancing at the clouds in case the sun is blocked,,,, it could make a difference in the ratio due to temp drop/air fuel,,, riding by the seat of your pants was a lot of fun just the same :-) Peter
when the car shakes and the motor rattles, behold the flames turn green then you know the car is on hydrazine :D some old timer told me that once when i asked him about hydrazine :LOL:
Oh boy,,,,,,,, you guys take me back in time. Yes, the motor shakes,,,, the ground shakes,,,,, and the crew shakes. 80% nitro, a dash of hydrazine, mag locked at 60 deg. lead,,,, and with a good burnout/hookup we were in hotrodder heaven ;)
so i take it you used to be a alkie/fuel racer?
Yes to your question,,, actually I started as a kid with model airplanes running on methanol/nitromethane fuel. In my early teens I was hopping them up to the max,,,, until I went too far with my mods. I applied many skills at the track that had worked for me as a teen,,, I'm shure the same rules would still apply today. I noticed you're running a 301,,, I built quite a number of them and loved the revs. Tell me a bit about your engine and I'll run it on my Desk Dyno for power out put,,, could be interesting :)
ill have to dig the info out tonoight on the cam and stuff. but i will let you know
I don't think he's old enough---we used to have John Stewerts Dad sign him into the track since he wasn't old enough to get in by himself---but tuffnuff is also from Sac and about the same age as John but I think John is in Houston this weekend
what desk top dyno do you have ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffnuff
Dyno 2000,,, it's served me well for quite a number of years and I'm familiar with the program. Sure wish the technology was available in my racing days,,, then it was trial and error :) Peter
it works ok i use it to look at cams .i want the the Dynomation but i just cant see spending the money right now when i can spend it on other things in the shop:3dSMILE:Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffnuff
Hi Pat, I agree, it's a tool to guestimate power output. The error margin is not much compared to the human element. I recall making only 1 change at a time and noting the difference in performance on my ET slip years ago (trial and error). Now it's a matter of plugging numbers into the dyno and pressing a button (key),,, and the results are at your fingertips. Unfortunately, the program does not allow for mushroom or large base lifter (faster valve action in terms of crank degrees) nor does it have provision for different rocker ratios on intake and exhaust,,,, I think I need newer software,,, huh :) Peter
or head flow numbers but it good for looking at some things the dynomation soft ware is the one i have been told ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffnuff
I found that flow numbers can be deceiving. I ran a blown BB Chev in my boat,,, the heads were fully ported (rectangular ports) one head had a crack between intake and exhaust seat, I didn't trust the head with the 7 lbs. of boost. So we put the heads on my friend's '50 Chev Coupe and the heads were too much for the street. My point,,,, sometimes too much of a good thing is simply too much :) Peter
hey i have one of them 50 chev coupe but i was more in the flow and heads like big chiefs what the soft ware has no way to put in i runned the big rect ports on the street you just have to move up your rpm but 90 of the time O, ports work ok but i build some big engines for the street :D if i have to say-so my self:DQuote:
Originally Posted by tuffnuff
Let's say you're going to build an engine from the ground up for your hotrod. Can you build it so that it could run either gasoline at a lower power or one of these higher test fuels? Thanks for all the info so far. This is what's great about the hot rodding community!
well for the street i build them around your rpm you will see the most of the time and how much power you need to move it and build around this not the way i would build one for the track you run them were they make power i would not try to build a hi and low test engine but have built them for power adders that would be a better way to goQuote:
Originally Posted by Maxb49
It is very interesting to hear first hand experiences from folks who have used nitromethane. I have only messed with it and methanol in the lab as chemical reagents so I can only say two things. First, both methanol and nitromethane evaporate more easily than octane and so will be effected more easily by temperature changes than gasoline and second, the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen in the normal atmosphere (air) is about 1/4 but nitromethane is CH3NO2 so the ratio of oxygen to nirogen in nitromethane is 2/1 so yes this compound brings in more oxygen than air AND brings in some CH3 as well. The comment about the need for high compression has to do with the need to split the oxygen off of the nitro group so it can react with the carbon to form CO2 and give off a LOT of heat which expands the gases rapidly. For a nonquantitative discussion of the "early days" of the late '40s and early '50s I recall that up to 10% of nitromethane was added to gasoline (percent volume) for "one shot" drag runs and I also recall an early test in Hot Rod magazine where an ARDUN setup on a flathead block was treated to 10% nitromethane in the gas and put out over 400 HP which was astonishing at the time from a 90 HP block! Then there were pictures of shattered blocks of Ford flatheads with captions indicating more than 10% nitromethane. No one can say when a given peice of cast iron will yield exactly but apparently for a flathead block problems occur somewhere over 10% nitromethane. I have no real idea where the limit is for a SBC and it may be higher with better parts but I think the idea is the same that nitromethane in gasoline is basically liquid dynamite. Compare to other explosives which invariably are hydrocarbons with nitro groups, eg TNT is trinitrotoluene which is just toluene with three nitro groups on the ring and toluene itself is an excellent fuel with an octane rating of over 100. Just some chemical background but I yield to those who have mixed, stirred and sat in the seat of a nitro-fueled car!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
putting nitro thru a flat head that only has only 3 main caps:eek: would be something for sure:whacked: wound need a big set to sit in back of that thing. or just give up on life and wanted to go out with some flare:3dSMILE: some of the big blocks i have can take over 1600+ hp easy that would be what i would look at if someone was going to do this .i did look in to this for someone that needed more power:D never did any thing with it
they used to puts lotsa nitro through 301's in the early days of jr. fuel :D
Don,,,, where were you 40 years ago,,, we could have used you at the track :) Peter
you have a pm tuff-nuff :D
pm <-----------???? sorry I'm not sure what you mean :)
private message
////////////Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffnuff
Tuffnuff, maybe he means "Good Night"? I wasn't around drag tracks much at all but I enjoyed short circle track racing as a spectator. I know where most of the Deuce coupes went and saw a lot of them running at short tracks and the old Hatfield track near Trenton ran "stock" cars. I recall the 1955 Packards that were allowed to run 400 ci V8s because they were stock in production models, just before the company vanished! Anyway I recall the drag news in Hot Rod magazine from the west coast of hot rod heavan and marveled at the beautiful glass slipper which was one of the early SBC conversions from the initial flathead setup, but that was long ago!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Thanks Don, I'm always interested in reading your posts. I don't fully understand them sometimes, but I sure enjoy trying. I've heard it or read it in the past that somewhere around 350*F, nitromethane undergoes a chemical change that releases the oxygen in it. Can you nail this down for me? :confused:
We used to run the biggest fuel pumps that we could get from Hilborn and then Crower---we also ran 100% nitro with super low compression and only around 30% overdrive on the blower whereas most at the time were running 45% or more--we ran 28 degrees timing while the elephant guys ran 75-90
We also started refrigerating our nitro so we could get more thru the system--it changes 2% spec gravity per 10*f and if we could get it down to 30* it would bob out at 110%. To do this on the road we would rent 2 adjoining rooms and ice the nitro down in one bathtub and everybody would use the shower in the other room( tho not at the same time!!!!!)