Thread: Need some timing advice

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LOL, i just posted a pic showing you what i think is wrong and you jsut posted yours.. thaks so much for taking the time to do that. I really do appreciate all of your time and you have shown me alot about trouble shooting carbs. I wll see if i can fix what is going on.

again thanks for being patient with me

chris

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...php?photo=6468

well good news my friend she rumbles right along i had to turn in the ifle screws a little to get her to fire and off she went hung around 800 rmp.... I think that fixed it> i am going to the lake right now and seee how she does with timing and set the air mixture screws.. the exhaust is a little white/ grey so i think she is lean. THe ehaders i have need to be run a little rich so maybe a half o turn should do it.

WEll man , thaks so much for all of your help you really have saved me some time and money.

I will keep ya posted on the results.

again thank you for your patients and the time you put into this

chris

Well I wanted to read up on this because I just put a new intake manifold, carb and a bunch of other stuff on my 302 motor and was having some problems with it so thought that maybe your question would be similar to my problem. In a way it was but mostly not but anyways, I learned quite a bit here. If you wanna trust someone with getting info from though then I would recommend you trust Denny if anything. He is one nice guy and knows his stuff and will help anyone, anytime as long as you respect him, etc. (I am not saying not to trust anyone else here, just saying how Denny helped you a ton that he know's what he is saying and is a great help). I learned a few things from this post now and I am hoping it's going to help me right now on my problem that I need to figure out.

FMXhellraiser.. I hoep this has helped i sure have learned alot from it... If you are having some of the same problems post it here and maybe we all can figure something out.. hell i am sure someone knows on here. I thought got the carb issue worked out so no i have another problem

Originally posted by DennyW
Not a problem. Glad to help. Turn all the mixture screws out 1/2 turn more. Timing range is 8-14 BTDC. I would start at 8.

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ok with the timeing i have adjust the dist. as far as it will go clockwise it is now hitting the water outlet housing and i have not more room to advance it.... can i take the distubutor completely out and turn it and set it back in to give me more room to advance it.. let me know what you all think

thanks in advance ( no pun intened)

by doing that what does it tel me about how far out the timing was when i got the motor. .. does it tell me any thing that i should know or should be concerned about

Originally posted by DennyW
I wouldn't worrie about that. Just get it set where it needs to be. Usually, Fords has the # 1 plug numbered right on the cap. Maybe the wires were started in the wrong spot ? No big deal though, you just have to correct it. Thats part of the fine tunning on your end.

Well, i thik i messed up .. I pulled the distributor out and now i cant get it back in and while trying to get it back in i have moved the distrbutor all over the place..

it seeems as there is a little hex bolt that is supposed to slide in the bottom of the distrubitor and i cant get it to match up with it while it sits in the bottom of the block...

any ideas of waht i have done and now what i have to fix

Originally posted by DennyW
You haven't done anything wrong. You just need to understand. The hex you are refering to is where the oil pump hex rod goes. The cam drives the distributor, and the distributor drives the oil pump.
When you try to sit the distributor in, you have to wiggle it along with the rotor some so it will move the oil pump hex rod. There will be at least 2 places that the distributor will sit in flush with the intake. From that point, you pick up on the distributor, just high enough for the distributor gear to miss the cam gear, and slip it 1 tooth, and sit it back down with a little wiggle to seat it. Do that 1 tooth at a time until you move the rotor where you want it.
If you want, you can tape a socket on an extension, and turn the oil pump rod slightly, and try the distributor until it meashes with the hex and seats flat.

ok have i messed the timing up know that i have moved the distributor rotor and the distributor base. I have turned both of them trying to get it in correctly.
Also, the hex bolt is tilted slightly and it is hard to get it to line up with the end of the distributor because it keeps falling against the side.. so it makes it hard for it to line up..

I am at work right now so i am just tring to get it in my head what i have to do,...

thanks for the reply denny

Originally posted by DennyW
Look at the picture above. See how the top is tapered ? Thats so it will center as you put the distributor in. Next, do you know where the rotor was when you pulled the distributor ? If so, just move it a tooth, and get it seated back in. If you have moved the engine, or don't know where you were. You will have to rotate the engine to get # 1 piston on TDC compression stroke, and go from there.

Denny, can you explain the best way to know your TDC .. i have read a couple of ways.. like puting your finger on the #1 cylinder... etc.. DO you ahve a sure way of knowing your TDC

After i find TDC then i have to move the rotor to the number one firing postion on the distributor cap right?.. well let me know waht you think or how i go about doing this ...

thanks agian



UPDATE::: Well my luck has it the the top of that rod that is supposed to go into the distributor is not tappered but it is flat???? man some luck.. if you have any tips on how do get it to rest in the center so it will slide in let me know

Originally posted by DennyW
Well, that sounds like the hex rod was put in upside down, or wasn't checked for the taper. Hummm. Now, you need to get the distributor as close as possible to the right spot, an while putting light pressure on the distributor downward, just bump the engine a little at a time to get it to line up with the hex rod. Notice I said light pressure. The bottom of the distributor hex, also has a slight taper to help it mesh, or should have anyway.
Well, you need to be able to know by compression, ot watching the valves on the number 1 cylinder to determine TDC (top dead center). You can go by compression against your finger, ot put a wadded up plastic baggie in the number 1 hole enough to seal the opening so when you come up on compression, it will pop it out. When that happens, watch the balancer for the timing marks. turn the motor, or bump it ever so slightly to move the balancer mark close to the pointer. Now, locate the distributor rotor possition close to the number one plug wire, or number one cap position. Back up one half to one plug wire positon, because the gears are beveled, and will move at least a half plug wire position as you install the distributor.
Last, I wish you would have waited before you pulled the distributor, you could have just moved the plug wires position by one hole, and been set.

ok got it in pheeeeww... i was stressing about that. thanks for the idea about bumping the motor to get it to sit in.. ok well the distributor is in...

qestion about TDC when i find TDC when i put the rotor on that should be #1 wire .. correct.. now could i just rewire the distrubtor cap instead of picking the rotor up and turning it to the origianl cap spark plug wiring.. i hope that made sence

man thanks again denny

Originally posted by DennyW
Yes, by your motor picture, you have plenty of wire length. You can move your wires at any place on the cap to get # 1 where you want it. Just make sure you keep the firing order correct.

ok well i got it all in and i thought i found #1 TDC.. to find it is it when you start to feel compression or is it when the piston is at the top of its stroke and starting to come back down??

I tried to fire it up but jsut back fired through the carbs or the exhaust .. no matter where i turned the distributor (counter clock wise or clock wise)

let me know if i have TDC or clairify what it is is it when you first feel compression or is it when the piston is at the top of the up stroke...

thanks
chris

I have been following this and I guess I will add my 2 cents on finding TDC on your 460. I have been building my engine, and worked on a few recently that had some issues with timing. Here is what I did.

Find your compression stroke. Do that like Denny said, with your finger, or a baggie. To determine when the piston is at the top of travel, take a new or close to new pencil and put it eraser side down in the spark plug hole. rotate your engine, when your pencil stops up travel, and begins to fall back into the cyl. turn it backwards until your at the top of travel. That is the EASIEST way I have found. You should be able to see your pointer on your timing cover close to the balancer timing marks at this point. Then get your distributor in place. Like denny said, best thing to do with getting your oil pump drive lined up is with an extension and socker. Should be 1/4 inch. turns pretty easy.if your drive rod is falling off to the side of the opening, it is possible that it was installed upside down. there should be a ring around the end of the rod that holds it in place. it is also possible that broke or fell of. it is only held on there by a few little tabs.

Good luck, and keep posting, I love to hear about 460 engines running like they are supposed to, it gives me hope for when I try to start mine.

ok well did the TDC and i found it... thanks so much for the great isp guys.. it worked great. i then Re arranged my wires for the correct order. Now i cant get her to stop back firing out of either the carbs if i turn it clockwise and if i turn to much the engine wont turn at all or it will back fire out of both the carbs nd the exhaust

if i turn it clock wise then it back fires out of the exhaust..

this is from one end of the distributor travel to the otehr.

one time i thought i had it but it ran like crap.. shaking all over and the lifters and cam sounded very bad.. if i tried to turn it either way it would back fire out the carbs or exhaust.....

this is getting very frustrating i am so close and then it always slips away...

let me know if you all have any ideas.. sorry to keep asking but i am learning a ton i just hope you all dont get sick of my posts

Originally posted by DennyW
You did run the wires the right way ? The distributor turns Counter Clockwise. So your plug wires have to run Counter Clockwise also. It sounds like you have the plug wires wrong. Just a little more so you can see the lay out.

http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/ford_429-514.htm

Denny, hey man sorry its been so long since i replied i have been busy as hell... anyways i think i have the firing order all wrong.. I looked at your link in the picture it says the "front of the block" that #1 is on the left side. I had Number #1 on the right side so i guess that is my problem.. some one early posted that number one is on the right side.. on page 1 of this thread.. damn no wondr it was running like crap.. could i have messed anything up by it doing that...

let me know

oh ya the "front of the blcck" is where the distributor is right ? just making sure i do this correctly.. i know it is a dumb question

thanks again

Originally posted by lt1s10


if you got fire, poping or spitting out of anything then you either got the valves opening or the dist. firing at the wrong time. assuming your cam is timed right, your valves adj. properly then the only thing left is the fire. it has to be out of timing or the wires crossed, and iff you can move the dist and move the miss fire then ib say you have it in time, so that leaves the crossed wires. 15426378 rotor ccw, 1234 right side 5678 left side.

i still stand by my quote.

SO your saying the right side of the engine is always the passenger side of the vehicle. so if i am looking at the distributor the right side of the engine is actually my left side.

I made number 1 on my actual right side.. which is actually numerb 5 ?? do i have this correct or am i all turned around( if i am looking at the distributor. ( i got it to run like that .. i hope it didnt mess anything up. It ran but very crappy. and it didnt sound good when it was running.

Thanks for the encouragement about the questions. I am still learnign this stuff and you all make it very nice to learn. I have come so close to throwing my hands up and paying someone but i am going to figure it out.


thanks again and i hope you all have a good weeekend