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  1. #1
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    encourage bbc 509ci

     



    Hello guys

    i build big block 509ci, 10.3 compress,
    rear gear(stock impala67) - 2.73
    th400 with stock converter(stock stall speed)
    engine idle^550-650rpm
    I have a manifold Edelbrock 7161 range 1500-6000rpm, oval port, Dual plane.
    heads: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 604519
    carb: edelbrock 750cfm

    when i start - i think that i have small block, wheel not slip. but I dont like hi rpm and camshaft 3000-7000rpm, I only want medium power, because i used car on street every day.

    today I have a camchaft COMP Cams 11-407-8(range idle-4600rpm, lsa110, Dur050 Lift: 200/206, 0.510 int./0.510 exh.

    i whant buy new camshaft: edelbrock 2263 . Range: 1,500-6,500, Dur050 Lift: 248 int./256 exh, LSA112, 0.629 int./0.643 exh.

    Maybe this Cam aggressive ?

    WHAT you say?
    1. whats will idle?
    2. i must replace trans converter? which? stall speed 1800, 2000, 2500?
    Last edited by Alex-grand; 12-11-2017 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Vacuum carb is ok
    https://youtu.be/-KnqWNmny_M


    Vacuum distributor is working
    https://youtu.be/8Ruh-pAInJE
    Last edited by Alex-grand; 12-11-2017 at 11:49 PM.

  3. #3
    techinspector1's Avatar
    techinspector1 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Alex, you have made the same mistakes that tens of thousands of other fellows have made when it comes to increasing the performance of their vehicles. You have failed to view your car as a system. You cannot change the camshaft in a motor without changing the torque converter and rear gears to compliment the cam's characteristics. Matter of fact, most fellows would do well to leave the motor alone and change the torque converter and rear gears. I have always championed doing that first and leaving the motor stock until you see if a converter and gears will give a fellow the performance they are looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-grand View Post
    Hello guys
    i build big block 509ci, 10.3 compress,
    rear gear(stock impala67) - 2.73
    Wrong gears. Needs 3.42:1 / 3.55:1 with limited slip.

    [QUOTE=Alex-grand;573239] th400 with stock converter(stock stall speed) engine idle^550-650rpm [QUOTE]

    Wrong torque converter. Needs 10" diameter, 2000 / 2500 stall unit. Purchase a true 10" converter, not a 12" unit with the fins bent over. Here is an example of what I would use.....10" that stalls about 1,000 rpm's over stock, with anti-ballooning plate and furnace brazed fins. I'm not saying to use this exact converter, just showing you the type of converter that I might use if I wanted a little more power for street driving. Assuming the stock converter stalls at somewhere around 1200 to 1400, then this unit would stall at around 2200 to 2400, which should work well on the street.
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-240901/overview/

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-grand View Post
    I have a manifold Edelbrock 7161 range 1500-6000rpm, oval port, Dual plane.
    This is the correct intake manifold for a performance street machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-grand View Post
    Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 604519
    carb: edelbrock 750cfm
    750 CFM will not make maximum power with a 509 cubic inch motor, but should provide enough volume to make good power on the street.

    [QUOTE=Alex-grand;573239] today I have a camchaft COMP Cams 11-407-8(range idle-4600rpm, lsa110, Dur050 Lift: 200/206, 0.510 int./0.510 exh. [QUOTE]
    This is a great street cam for a motor with about 9.0:1 static compression ratio. You are using it with a static compression ratio that is far too high and I would suspect that your cylinder pressure is through the roof. If not operated on very high octane fuel, I would think that you would be detonating the motor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-grand View Post
    i whant buy new camshaft: edelbrock 2263 . Range: 1,500-6,500, Dur050 Lift: 248 int./256 exh, LSA112, 0.629 int./0.643 exh.
    If you think the car is a pooch now, just go ahead and install more cam with the stock gears and converter. You won't even want to drive it any more. The camshaft is not a stand-alone part in the motor. It requires all the other parts and systems in the motor and on the car to be coordinated to work with a certain cam timing. For all you other fellows who are reading this thread, start at the back of your vehicle, with gears, then converter, before you ever change one part in or on the motor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-grand View Post
    Maybe this Cam aggressive ?
    You don't need that much more cam, you need more gear and more converter. With more gear and more converter, the motor could use more cam, but not as much as 248/256, more like 220 or 225 to match up with the static compression ratio a little better.
    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 12-12-2017 at 07:18 AM.
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  4. #4
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Thumbs up

     



    Techinspector1 thanks.
    This is a very detailed answer for me.

    1. I buy torq converter About which you spoke. (TCI 10”, 2000/2500stall)

    2. Change rear gear: example 3.55 F5B69576-9CFE-40BF-B782-87E87F3F5F0D.jpg or full set 32900EDC-EDDD-410F-9605-EEC33D2CBB82.jpg ?

    3. Camshaft : maybe Crane Cam 139611 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-139611
    (lsa114, dura050 - 218/224, range 1400-5200)

  5. #5
    techinspector1's Avatar
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    I like that cam. The 114 degree lobe separation angle should provide excellent manifold vacuum for power brakes and the split duration will help scavenge the cylinders when using production iron heads, with their poor exhaust ports. 108 or 110 LSA would provide more low end power, but with correct gears and correct torque converter, you will have more low end power than you can control without more tire and more traction control.
    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 12-13-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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  6. #6
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    I will begin with replacement Rear gear and torq converter.

    Replacement cams is next stage.
    And what approximately will be idle on this camshaft(Crane)?

  7. #7
    techinspector1's Avatar
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    Idle should be very good, close to stock. This will be a very good combination of parts.
    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 12-13-2017 at 01:07 PM.
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  8. #8
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    This cam (Crane Cam 139611,
    (lsa114, dura050 - 218/224, range 1400-5200) seldom happens on sale. What can he be replaced with if I don't find him?

  9. #9
    techinspector1's Avatar
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    Howards Cams are the least expensive good-quality camshafts that are available today, in my opinion. Here's some history on them....

    ABOUT US
    OVER 70 YEARS OF RACE WINNING PERFORMANCE!
    The company was founded by Howard Johansen as Howards Power & Racing Equipment, as a manufacturer of racing cams in 1945. Howard and his wife retired in 1965 and turned the business over to his oldest son, Jerry, who ran the company until 1985. Jerry was considered one of the top engine turners of his day, and along with Don Madden, ran a series of “Howards Cams Rattler” and “Howards Cams Special” top fuel cars out of the shop as test beds for new products.

    Howards Cams have always used on track experience to develop the most powerful designs. This includes early Top Fuel favorites driven by Jack Chrisman and Larry Dixon Sr. Today we have even a greater group of experienced racers in Circle Track, Drag Racing, Road Race, Mudd Bogg and Marine. Sportsman to Pro. We use all this input, plus the most advanced computer design software to design the most competitive race winning products.

    In 1998 Howards Cams was on the move again to an all new, completely retooled facility in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. With the new facility came new products and a new name. Howards Cams & Racing Components. We started manufacturing precision American made forged steel connecting rods and crankshafts, along with billet main caps, forged 2618 aluminum pistons and numerous new camshaft profiles and valve train components.

    From pioneers in drag racing and oval track to cutting edge marine development, Howards Cams is at the forefront of the industry.

    So, this would be my first choice for your motor in a Howards grind....
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet
    Adding "CL" to the front of the part number will add Howards roller tappets. ALWAYS BUY TAPPETS FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER WHO GRINDS YOUR CAMSHAFT. Mixing manufacturers of cams and tappets is a recipe for trouble, so you should be shopping for a Howards CL120245-12 cam and lifters kit. As I stated in a previous post, the 112 lobe separation angle will assist with manifold vacuum to support power brake operation more than a 110 or 108 angle camshaft would.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet

    This cam should present no valve to piston clearance problems, but you will want to check closely anyway, upon trial fit assembly. Allow a minimum of 0.080" intake clearance and 0.100" exhaust clearance. (~2.0 mm / ~2.6 mm). Also check closely for spring coil bind. Adding the 5 spaces between coils at full valve lift should equal minimum 0.050" (~1.2 mm). If using stock type rocker arms, check for binding at the fulcrum point (arm to stud). Sometimes, longer slot rockers are necessary to prevent binding with higher lift cams. Find out exactly what springs are in your heads and convey that information to the Howards tech department so that you coordinate the cam with the proper springs.


    Edelbrock, LLC Tech Department
    2700 California Street, Torrance, CA 90503
    Phone: 310-781-2222
    Fax: 310-320-1187
    Tech Line Only: 800-416-8628

    Hours of Operation:
    Monday-Friday 8:00 am - 5:00 pm PST

    Tech Line Hours:
    Monday-Thursday 7:00 am - 5:00 pm PST
    Friday 7:00 am - 4:00 pm PST

    https://howardscams.com/contact.html

    Overview: If we assume that the stock torque converter, behind a stock 454, would stall at about 1400 rpm's, then we would figure that the new one would stall at about 1000 or more rpm's higher than that with a bigger motor, to a minimum of about 2400 rpm's. This is a perfectly acceptable street stall target and will put this Howards cam solidly into its power range by at least 600 rpm's. The cam begins making power at about 1800, so with the motor stalling the converter at about 2400 or a little higher, the motor will be "up on the cam" and you should be tearing the tires off the rear of the car from a standstill.

    Finally, pay close attention to this tutorial about pushrod length......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5is9BsH5OU&t=165s

    I've spent quite a lot of time today researching this combination for you and this is the best I can come up with. I'm wishing you the best of luck with your build.

    Richard
    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 03-07-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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  10. #10
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    It is time to buy a camshaft.

    I am afraid a little, think about Howard’s cams

    Can I will be able to establish steady idling? ( smaller 1000)? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet
    (Howard’s cams 120245-12)
    It’s not aggressive camshaft? Steady good idle?


    Because : last year I installed edelbrock 2261 camshaft(range 1500-6500, lsa112)
    Idle was 1100, The motor was as the loony, jumpy
    I have removed this cam at once. But I remember that cam2261 give very good start)))

    I won't have such problems with Howard’s 120245?

  11. #11
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    [IMG][/IMG]

  12. #12
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    And what this: fair idle ? And crisp throttle?
    It’s a good parameter for everyday drive?

  13. #13
    techinspector1's Avatar
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    Yes, this CL120245-12 cam will make an excellent daily driver when paired with the proper torque converter. Install it straight up according to the cam card. Do not advance it or retard it.

    First thing you'll want to do is to find top dead center so that you can begin experimenting with advancing the spark at the crank. I would use a degreed harmonic damper or a degree tape that will attach to your stock damper.

    Begin with finding top dead center (explained below in the tech article) and begin advancing the spark a little at a time. You may find that this cam likes 14 or 16 or 18 or 20. But remember, as you dial more spark lead in at the crankshaft, you will have to reduce the lead that is added by centrifugal advance, so that you don't exceed about 38 degrees total advance.

    You will get to the point where, as you continue to add initial lead in at the crank, the motor will begin bucking back against the starter. At that point, you will want to interrupt the hot line to the ignition coil and add a switch that you can use to switch off the spark to the plugs while you spin the motor up with the starter, then click the switch over to reinstate juice to the coil and begin making spark again. I think there are now automatic interrupters that can be wired into the ignition system, but I have never used one. Call the MSD tech line.

    If it gets to a point where get yourself wrapped around all the following information about spark control, you will know more than 99% of hot rodders on the planet.
    http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center
    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 04-03-2018 at 06:10 PM.
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  14. #14
    Alex-grand is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    I bought this camshaft(Howards) and torque converter(TCI 10'')
    do I have to change lifters(Howards lifters)? because i have new Lunati 72331-16 Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifters(run about 5000 miles)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-grand View Post
    I bought this camshaft(Howards) and torque converter(TCI 10'')
    do I have to change lifters(Howards lifters)? because i have new Lunati 72331-16 Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifters(run about 5000 miles)

    I can answer that one. NEVER run used lifters on a new cam, period.
    Ken Thomas
    NoT FaDe AwaY and the music didn't die
    The simplest road is usually the last one sought
    Wild Willie & AA/FA's The greatest show in drag racing

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