Quest for 10s 396/402 Big Block build (Big Block Guru's welcome)

Im not sure whether i should post this in the engine department or drag racing but here it goes. I have a 76 Camaro that originally had a 305 in it. The previous owner stuck a 350 in it and made it into a 355. It's a nice little cruiser motor nothing too special. I was on a search for a long time for a 454 Big block and found nothing for awhile and stumbled upon a 396 Big block. So i traded him my 400 small block for his 396 Big block. The big block is #3955272 bored .30 (402 i think) and has heads #3931063 on it right now. I will slowly begin breaking it down and buying parts for it starting tax season. I've been told that the 396 is a turd and will not see mid solid 10s NA and i should get a 454. Well now that i've been told no i do what i naturally do and want to prove them wrong. I also have some LS1 fbody friends, LT1 friends and mustang friends bashing on me for going old school and i want to show them up aswell. I know LT1's and LS1's pretty well im just new to the Big blocks and Gen 1 stuff but im willing to learn. But i want to push that big block i have as close to 600hp as i can. If i get 550 i wont cry im sure 500 is enough to reach 10s. I already know i have to build the trans, rear, and suspension but i wanted to start with the motor. Im looking for a set of aftermarket heads for that motor and oval port seems to be the way to go from chevy performance articles i've read. I was looking at a few Brodix, Dart, and Trickflow heads. AFR is nice but 2K is out of my wallet, those other brands are around the $900 range. So if any guru's wanna help me build this car to achieve 10s? step in and lend a hand. Also this will be more of a race car, this thing will see the street maybe once or twice a week or month depending on how the govt is with gas prices

do you think you couls sell the 396 to a restorer and then get a nother block????????

Anyway, as you plan your parts---think about lightening it up as you go---get alum heads , manifold, waterpump, etc--------

Is your block a four bolt main?????????

you did post on here about this ? a 396/402 can be built to run i know i can . made a long post on this hit the wrong button . your not going to find a alum head made in the usa for 900. aset not going to happen . you need to watch the head size . the 396 will somewhat will want more RPM the block and most gm lower end parts can take way more then 500 hp is like falling off a stump . the 396 is more weight but a stronger engine then a 400 sbc . 454 still can be had i have a shop full of them coast of cores for good block s has gone up some the cost of building the 396 is going to be about the same as a 454 that why many have not used the smaller bore engine

I've looked for a 454 in my area for awhile but couldn't find anything close. I found a few that i have to drive out of state to reach but i'd spend more in gas to go pick it up. The motor is a 2 bolt main. I planned to make it a 4 bolt main.

These heads on summitracing i was looking at, their brodix aluminum and in the $900 range but wasn't sure if they were any good Brodix Cylinder Heads Race-Rite Oval Port Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevy 2061001 - SummitRacing.com

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigblock76fbody

I've looked for a 454 in my area for awhile but couldn't find anything close. I found a few that i have to drive out of state to reach but i'd spend more in gas to go pick it up. The motor is a 2 bolt main. I planned to make it a 4 bolt main.

These heads on summitracing i was looking at, their brodix aluminum and in the $900 range but wasn't sure if they were any good Brodix Cylinder Heads Race-Rite Oval Port Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevy 2061001 - SummitRacing.com

---

That price is for one head.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigblock76fbody

I've looked for a 454 in my area for awhile but couldn't find anything close. I found a few that i have to drive out of state to reach but i'd spend more in gas to go pick it up. The motor is a 2 bolt main. I planned to make it a 4 bolt main.

These heads on summitracing i was looking at, their brodix aluminum and in the $900 range but wasn't sure if they were any good Brodix Cylinder Heads Race-Rite Oval Port Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevy 2061001 - SummitRacing.com

---

you will never make the power were you think you will need the 4 bolt caps a real wast of money . but i do them for selling point and for guys that think they need them . very few that really need a 4 bolt cap but if so then were looking at better caps and a better block like a big m darts or pro block were there more iron were the stock block will move a bbc block is not a small block caps are bigger and so are the bolts bbc are 1/2 sbc are 7/16 . been building bbc for 30+ years now i never see a two bolt cap fail from not having two more bolts . were you will see the added bolts is far past 650 hp

That price for one? Geez I feel dumb.

But pat, any advice on what I can/should do to push this 396bbc past the 500hp mark? I'm sure that's plenty to run 10s

So pat, what kindve advice should I do to get this 396 bbc past the 500hp mark NA. I'm sure that's plenty of power to get into the 10s

start with a good block with good machine work .set of small runner port afr heads can get the smaller head chamber .use a pistons with the lest amount of dome you want to be at around 12to1 cr or more solid roller around @050 268/272 660/660 108.cam good valve train nice oil pan intake single plane team G a 850 cfm . would work .stuff some gear out back 456 . 3800 +stall this is off the top of my head real numbers can be fine tune in is for parts numbers and limit on self pistons have just look up part numbers i think this should do hi 670 hp at 6500+rpm

So I should stay away from the brodix heads and trick flow heads I was looking at? Ill look for oval port afr heads

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigblock76fbody

So I should stay away from the brodix heads and trick flow heads I was looking at? Ill look for oval port afr heads

---

think about how much money you want to spend on this ??? then check out who has a small chamber head that is why i said AFR they have a very nice head trick flow my be ok i can say never had a set in my hands .i still would go with the line up of AFR .dart .profile brodix .getting it right chamber cc will help getting past 9.5 cr if this is going to be max race engine i would want to be at better then 10to1 . here are some pistons to look at wisceo pto39h3 11.8 at 104 cc and pto39h6 both same dome just bore size and a forged piston . KB 9949 this is a 4023 alloy and would use a stock 366/427 3.760 crank and would be 11.3 cr with a 112 cc head or a KB 361 thats a hyper 390 alloy and used a 4.000 crank that can be over 427 has to do with what bore you end up at and is 11.1 CR with a small chamber head 95cc that may limt your head pick for chamber size to find so any thing more out there in a stocking shelf piston any thing more you are looking at custom pistons could be in your future and thats about $ 950+ a set at that point use a 4.000 crank you get more CID and will help build some CR .this is why many do not play with the 396/402 power can be made some pistons are not out there like the bigger bore engine when all said and done the 454 block start looking good. with a 454 and what crank/parts you end up with can yield a 427 to 511 with a stock block. tell them it a 396 they will never know trust me on this.. it been done

I think the afr is a 115 or 116 ill post up a link when I get to a computer. And sticking a 454 crank in there would be a 427? I didn't think I could make it that much. I've been told a 418 is pushing it. The previous owner already bored it .30 over but I'm not sure of the bottom end what it consists of. Im in no rush to build it so I want the best and do it right the first time

afr can be smaller107 cc as casted and cc 112 you need them to be less the 112 if you want any cr you can put a 4.250 crank in one but pistons need to be customs and block work would be need for room

So am I better off wjth the 4.00 crank or shoving a 454 crank in there? I'm not sure what's in it now

a 454 crank is 4.00----I think that in a 396 block you have a lot to grind away for rod clearance
Pistons for a BBC type head in a 396 bore size will be custom for any different stroke---
I suggest you find a different block for a starting point -----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

a 454 crank is 4.00----I think that in a 396 block you have a lot to grind away for rod clearance
Pistons for a BBC type head in a 396 bore size will be custom for any different stroke---
I suggest you find a different block for a starting point -----------

---

no its not bad customer built one about 4 years ago club member sleeve 396 . KB makes a hyper piston that made to do just this Jerry .new starting .i know this guy that has a 511.498.496.489. that will sell you one and ship it to your door :) shake that piggy bank

the 4.000 can be a 454 crank it this point if you used a stock Gm 454 crank or stock replace ment crank you will have a external crank so will need a 454 damper and fly wheel . if you go after market on the 4.000 crank i think you can get one internal cut for the 6.135 stock rod . you have to look in to this i have one at the shop i was not going to use it .i have to see what the counter weigths are cut for what size rod. for moving up to the 4.000 crank should not be a very big deal 366to 427 and 396/402 all use the same stroke crank that is 3.760 or 3.765 so 240 more stroke is not much if you use a cap screw rod and not a threw bolt rod that will help with room . i am not going to say that you will not have to check it and you may want to clean it here not a big deal

Sorry Pat----I know that there are shelf cast pistons, but I was thinking along the lines of custom forged stuff---and Capscrew steel rods would take less clearancing than the stock thru bolt and especially the aluminum rods of yea day--------
I remember back in early mid 70s using tall deck truck blocks with .400 long rods and 454 pistons, cutting block decks way down and machining flats of pistons to get bigger dome CCs---------

Any good brand forged cranks I should look at? I know in LT1s amd LS1 eagle and scat are terrible. I don't know how good they are in older motors

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigblock76fbody

Any good brand forged cranks I should look at? I know in LT1s amd LS1 eagle and scat are terrible. I don't know how good they are in older motors

---

used many scats there fine better then some others out there

We use mostly Scat and Callies---sometimes Scats arrive in an iron reinforced pallet that has to be cut apart to get to them----------

That can be accomplished. Yet=?? remember -you have now traded more weight(basic engine sizes) for the small block so that alone must be overcome . Good heads , big cam & intake is ness. Yet - you must run some high octane race fuel also. High octane(not=pump gas!!) equalls more heat & =more power. must have some 11-1 comp ratio or higher. Seems you =like most of us are trying to build on a budget-thats ok -just remember when ur @ tyhe track there will also be thos that built with big bucks.

i've heard many horror stories of scat and eagle, a guy in charleston sc, has a 355 Lt1 in his 94 z28, broke 2 forged eagle cranks. Went with an Ohio forged crank and no issues. So i wasnt sure of the quality of that brand in the older engines.

Heres a link to the heads Pat, are these the AFR your talking about?
AFR 265cc Oval Port Magnum BBC Cylinder Heads 3610-1 - SummitRacing.com
or these Brodix
Brodix Cylinder Heads Race-Rite Oval Port Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevy 2061001 - SummitRacing.com
or trickflow
Trick Flow® PowerOval® 280 Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevrolet TFS-41300001 - SummitRacing.com

I wanted you to take a peak at those flow #s and see which one you think would be good for this build. Im leaning more of AFR because you mentioned it, and everybody has had good results with them. I just wanted to run the other brands by you to see what you thought.

Would this crankshaft fit? it's a 4.00 Callies Callies Compstar Crankshafts BBO425-CS - SummitRacing.com
or if you've got one at your shop that you think will benefit me i could purchase it from you. Im looking for forged because i do want to spray at the track unless you guys don't think i need a forged bottom end. Im only seeing the track maybe 3 or 4 times a year

Sorry to be such a nuisance with a bunch of dumb questions. I'm new to big blocks and learning as i go

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigblock76fbody

i've heard many horror stories of scat and eagle, a guy in charleston sc, has a 355 Lt1 in his 94 z28, broke 2 forged eagle cranks. Went with an Ohio forged crank and no issues. So i wasnt sure of the quality of that brand in the older engines.

Heres a link to the heads Pat, are these the AFR your talking about?
AFR 265cc Oval Port Magnum BBC Cylinder Heads 3610-1 - SummitRacing.com
or these Brodix
Brodix Cylinder Heads Race-Rite Oval Port Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevy 2061001 - SummitRacing.com
or trickflow
Trick Flow® PowerOval® 280 Cylinder Heads for Big Block Chevrolet TFS-41300001 - SummitRacing.com

I wanted you to take a peak at those flow #s and see which one you think would be good for this build. Im leaning more of AFR because you mentioned it, and everybody has had good results with them. I just wanted to run the other brands by you to see what you thought.

Would this crankshaft fit? it's a 4.00 Callies Callies Compstar Crankshafts BBO425-CS - SummitRacing.com
or if you've got one at your shop that you think will benefit me i could purchase it from you. Im looking for forged because i do want to spray at the track unless you guys don't think i need a forged bottom end. Im only seeing the track maybe 3 or 4 times a year

---

oh bull shit i have more of them scat cranks making more power in things they should not be in scats are not no way shape or form eagle cranks . and i use many of the ohio stuff has this is a open post i not going to blast some of them companys on here but i use just about all of them and some i would never use again . i have used.eagle. cats .scats . rpm,elgins . ohios .compstars .howard. brc. callies some in the shop at the same time ..so some dumb ass thinks they can just drop parts in with out checking any thing cuz they pickup a crank kit ...then cry on the net.. there is allways more to it.... compstar are ok i use them and the mangum when the steam is on i know what they flow have the sheets on the race rites right here were we had them flowed my valve job my bowl work .not posted there numbers the AFR is what chamber size use on this build if you going to spay how much ????? better re think hyper pistons cast steel crank will hold out loner then them pistons will

i had a feeling those AFR's would be the winner for my tax return check

The spraying wont be for awhile down the road, but when the time comes, i'll start off with a 75 shot and work my way up. But the motor will probably be sprayed a handful of times a year. Most of the time the motor will be NA, no spray or anything. Thats why i was debating of going with a forged bottom end or not because i wont be spraying that much. Im sure i can still run 10s all day without a forged bottom end

so was that your 94 that broke the 2 cranks?

No my 94 was stock with headers

I'd bet that the reason the two cranks failed is that they were/were not balanced and had wrong combo of flywheel/flex plate------------

That could've been the issue, im not sure if it's a home built motor or a shop assembled but heres a link to it on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqsg...feature=fvwrel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I'd bet that the reason the two cranks failed is that they were/were not balanced and had wrong combo of flywheel/flex plate------------

---

guy ran a paint shaker all day at home depot:whacked: ... hell with the balance..that engine runs smooth**)**):eek:

Hey pat if this helps any, my 396 block # is 3955272 and the heads on it are 3931063.
Im going to be pulling them off this weekend to sell to save for those AFR heads

just close chamber heads and Gm block . you know you could build this with the bigger 4.000 crank hyper pistons should fit ? with your head s you have . would have to check this should be ok may need some tune up work for fit. some head work .roller cam let it rip save the money for a 540/565 street engine pump gas or a 496/511 street engine with good heads i have heads for the big engines and parts .in stock i have the dart 335CNC .345.355CNC heads i have but nothing in a o port right now in the small chamber you will need less then you want a 489/511 then i can get you some heads

It has CE stamped on the block, i tried to google it and all i get is "customer exchange" so maybe it was a warrantied out motor sometime in it's life? I have no clue what it stands for. What i want to do though is push that 402 into the mid 10s, people are bashing me because it's the small BBC but i want to prove them wrong. Im going to tear it down and sell what i can out of it. You've already got me set on those AFR magnum oval port heads to stick on there, i sent the link to in the earlier page