yep thats the great thing about a hand file no one wants to barrow a hand file... but every one and there brother wants to use the ring filerQuote:
Originally Posted by IC2
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yep thats the great thing about a hand file no one wants to barrow a hand file... but every one and there brother wants to use the ring filerQuote:
Originally Posted by IC2
I have a sign on my tool box "My tools do not leave my shop" I've had a few guys get upset but I still have my tools I sometimes wind up with a few extra cars here but the tools don't leaveQuote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
for that mater get a hoist and you'll see who your friends are
I've never liked borrowing tools, especially from someone who earns their living with them. When I worked at the body shop I kept a tool box there, even though I didn't work on cars as part of my job. But if the occasion came up where I had to tighten something for a customer, or whatever, I didn't have to ask one of the bodymen for a tool. The guy who has the repair shop down the way from our shop has offered me an odd tool occasionally, and I have always made sure I get it right back to him and show him me putting it back in his toolbox. But even then I never felt great taking a tool that he offered.
Don
well own a engine machine shop ..see what happens then . there happy with not taking the tools they just want to build there engine at my shopQuote:
Originally Posted by cffisher
Aaaaa,I own that ring grinder.It's at the race shop where it needs to be and not at the shop for my van.Well really I co-own it.
There are only a couple of folks that I let borrow tools - had too many in the past either not come back without a few reminders, broken or something other then what I lent out. The guy across the street borrowed a metric 14mm socket a few years(6-8?) ago - then returned it broken. I asked when I could expect the replacement S-K. We haven't spoken since then as it got "noisy" and over a 6 buck tool. Then there's my buddy who returns a borrowed tool with a 4 pack of Guinness :D:D
Loaning tools is always iffy at best. I learned early on from my brother who wouldn't share with any of us, in high school. We all had to buy our own or borrow from friends, because he refused to share. Flash forward to 6 years ago when we built the addition to my house. We shared tools with the construction crew, only to find them, abused, broken or missing. After that experience, I have to know the individual well, before I lend out stuff or borrow for that matter. I have a few close friends, I would give just about anything to help, but they are always there for me too. I guess that's why we are friends.
My shipment from Speedway came yesterday..........some parts for my rpu project and also the ring filer I ordered. It is exactly what I envisioned, just a flat surface to hold the ring straight and a grinding wheel that you turn with a hand crank.
Last night I started filing the rings for his Olds, I was anxious to see how that would go. Out of the box the rings I got were about .019 gap and the engine shop said he likes .024 on the top ring and .020 on the second ring. I opened the gap up on a couple of top rings last night, and used a little fine stone I had to take the sharp edges off. The ring filer worked fine and it really only takes a couple of turns of the handle to remove the amount of material I needed to take off.
We are being super careful this time, don't want a repeat of the last ring issues. :o Tonight Dan, Don, and I are going to continue filing rings and also to get the crank installed. I scrubbed up the block last night and then shot WD40 all over the bare metal to keep it from rusting. Today I am going to pick up a 460 Ford rear main seal (it replaces the rope seal Olds used and fits perfectly) and some assembly lube.
The more I look at the job this last shop did on the block the more I am impressed. They ground off all the casting flash inside and smoothed the oil passages. Dan was also impressed to see they took the time to line up all the writing on each brass freeze plug so the letters are straight...........stuff like that drives him nuts ! :D
Don
It is always a big day around home when the UPS truck comes............I get the parts and my two helpers get the box.:D
What is it about boxes and bags that cats find irresitible?
Haha, I know, cool pictures, Bob. Robin sent me these a while back.
Don
It's funny cats seem to love them once they are empty. My dogs are always curious what's inside, but once you open them, they lose interest! You just have to laugh looking at them in those pics Don. I wish we could all have fun with something so simple!
You ever see kids. They have more fun with the boxs than whats inside:eek:...Well that was before computers.:LOL::LOL:
Tonight we got a lot done on Dan's motor. Dan and Don finished up filing the rings to get a .024 gap on the top ring and .020 on the second one. While they were doing that I cleaned the pistons and crank in diesel fuel, then wiped them dry. Hardly any dirt came off, and the machine shop said they washed everything before we picked it up.........so I guess they did.
Then we got the crank in and checked the main bearing clearances. The manual says they should be between .005 and .021, which seems like a big spread, but ours came out at .006, so we were good to go. Now the crank is in and torqued to specs. We also lightly scotchbrited the bearings to get the surface slightly shiny.
We were surprised to see the machine shop even tapped every hole in the block, not just the head bolts and main bolts, but even the ones for the oil pan and timing cover. I am so happy I found these guys.
Next Dan and I are going to start installing the rings on the pistons and getting the pistons put into the block. It's starting to look like a motor, and I feel very good about the care we are taking this time around.
Don
Don,
Just a reminder to watch the pattern on the oiled cylinders as you put in the pistons.
Sounds like that engine shop know their stuff Don, I shall be inspecting all your work next week :LOL::LOL::LOL:
?????? I don't understand this?????Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gary
And I don't understand this??? Never heard of scotchbrite to a bearing?? Seems counterproductive...Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Takes the shine off which gives the surface a texture to hold a better oil film. Some do, I don't, but it isn't "wrong"Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
i was going to post on his and threw my post out But i can not leave it a lone :).this was something we did as some bearing had a flash for breakin on them and could move. bearing s are much better now no need to still do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
sorry not stepping on any ones toes.. but take it any way you will :( the bearing are dull out of the box and that finsh is the best to keep hands off
I don't think there's any stepping of toes here Pat! I asked a question 'cause I hadn't heard of this practice. I studied automotive in a trade school, we were taught to protect at all costs the surface of the mains / rods and their bearings. So I was shocked to see someone say they took a scotchbrite pad to a bearing! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Thanks to you and Dave for replying and providing an answer! :)
ok well post 59 is why it was done at one time the flash coating i call it. on the old MIch 77 would be falling off in the bearing box . but there so many bearings now to use and not all made the same some the finsh is machined other are not some are trimetal. bimetal many make up.s of babbittQuote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Thanks Again for the answer Pat! 8-)Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
They are babbitt dull (tin/lead/antimony, etc) but are very smooth. The way it was explained to me by an old time engine builder is that they were too smooth - like a non-honed cylinder wall and that they needed some texture to maintain an oil film. I don't buy that explanation and have never done it. The bearings are manufactured to maintain a certain oil film thickness at a certain crank to bearing clearance and with a certain oil feed wedge. While it doesn't hurt to Scotch-Brite, there is no really good reason to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
For a short while I worked in a bearing manufacturing area at GE for a while where we actually cast and machined bearings from a couple inches in diameter to over 24 inches. These bearings were finished on a lathe to a particular finish - and that finish was not really smooth. Many years later, I don't recall what that finish was (125 maybe) and these bearings mostly went into constant speed motors and turbines with minimum speeds of 3000 rpm up to over 6000, usually with 25psig oil pressure and operating continuously for years between inspections. As far as assembly in the field - most service engineers used ordinary STP:eek:Quarts of that stuff!!
Do it or not, caution plus a good cleaning afterwards is the best way if Scotch-Brite is used.
My turn------
You guys are misreading the bearing clearance specs--it is no .005-.021 but .0005-.0021----------------
And if you do have .006 you are way out of tolerance!!!!!!
AAnd as far as toe stomping-------I guess I would be called an old or old time engine builder---we never scotchbrighted bearings back THEN---because scotchbrite hadn't been invented yet---however we did sand bearings with 400 wet or dry paper because we would then have a consistant pattern in the bearing surface so we could tell how much/where/how the bearing/crank journal oil supply was working---The surface of the bearing show never touch the crank as it should ride on the oil film and thats where oil wt., flow, clearance,pressure all come into play.
And for those back THEN who didn't like Valvoline because it foamed and others didn't---if your oil foams its the oil system causing it, not the oil and an oil that foams will have more surface tension than non filming oils so it will protect bearing/crank , along with other parts better.
These days with the non foaming syn lt weight oils the bearing clearances get more crital , especially with alum engines, however that old OLDSMOBILE could probably run on the old grease from the local drive in resturant
Well, I only scotchbrited them after I took my belt sander to them first. :eek: JUST KIDDING !!!!!!! :LOL: Actually, all I did was spray them with WD40 and LIGHTLY, wipe the surface with a scotchbrite........VERY lightly. The reason I did that was I went on line and read a lot of engine building tech articles and that is what they said to do. I didn't take anything off or scratch the dullness, but I'm glad you guys mentioned that these new type bearings are meant to leave alone. We won't do that to the rod bearings. Thanks. :)
Jerry, yep, you are right about the .0005 thing, I never was good with decimals and am never sure how many zeros go in there. It was actually .0006.:o After we got the mains torqued the crank spun nice and free, and we could also see all the welding the balancing shop did to get it right. They said the crank was really out. All the shop did was polish the crank as it never needed turned, and we went back with the same std size bearings that we had in it originally. We always had 50 psi oil pressure, at least that part of the build was ok.
Thanks again for the tips, guys.
Don
Not understanding what you mean Gary ???
When Don tore down the engine to find a ring issue,I asked him during the assembly if he was watching the last piston put in as he turned the crank over if he was watching the oil pattern on that last bore.A ring that got caught,or twisted while putting in that piston would leave a line in the oiled bore of that bore.Yepper-not a literary giant here.:o:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by roadster32
IC2 i know what bearing s he has i sold them to him :) i use over 4 makes of bearings at the shop some machined finsh .some use indium .silicon bi metal.tri metal, alum .i not going to write a book here but i do more bearings in the year then i care to think about and not all in moms and pops car but stuff getting the snot kick out of it and 300+ shot of Nos so hi Hp engines not like 500HP but way past that . not as old as Jerry but not a kid :)
Are there realy people older than Jerry:eek::LOL::LOL::LOL:
why would you go online for that B.S engine building crap don???? when i could of filled you up here . yep i knew what you meant ..0006 i think if you had .006 your plastigage would of rolled out and landed on the floor :whacked:or go to blue plastigage or run down to the 7/11 and pick up some bubble gum and used that for gage stock:D but then i understand not trusting what one guy post s on here :)
well he is as old as my mom not to old . i have to say that because i am getting old:D .some times i have a hell of a time keeping up with mom when she on a missionQuote:
Originally Posted by cffisher
Sooooooooooooo,if Jerry is older than me,that means it adds days for me???.Hummm.Naw :LOL::LOL: never mind.:whacked:
Pat, I figured I bothered you guys enough with questions, so I read a few articles in magazines and went on line to fill in some gaps. Ok, while we are talking, we have never degreed a cam, I have a dial indicator and need to get the wheel. What tips do you guys have there.
What confuses me is, when you find out the sprocket is out a few degrees, or whatever, what do you do, drill the mounting holes bigger and put in offset bushings>
Don
Written better than I could:
How to Degree A Camshaft: Engine Builder
Thanks, I'll read that. Just hope they don't say to use a scotchbrite. :eek::D
Don
i could not post last night then site went down.well any way isky sell s off set bushings kit part #ofb-16 olds 1949&upV8 other may sell a bushing kit like MrGasket . or buy a chain set with added lower key ways they make them .:DNo scotch brite needed in the installation:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
I scotch brite the ramp of the cam lobe till I get the timing we want!!!!!!
Isn't it easier to do the timing gear teeth? At least you don't have to chance gouging the cam bearings. :whacked::eek::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
A Dremal is quicker