Thread: I found what blew in my engine!

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I mentioned that when we were coming home from Turkey Run in Daytona the engine in my 27 started making a loud racket, like something in the valvetrain blew. I shut it off immediately, took Don's T off of his trailer and put my 27 on it. We went to a U Haul and I rented a truck and car trailer, to the tune of over $ 480.00, but I was 250 miles from home and had no choice.

I pushed the car into the shop and haven't wanted to look at it, but today my curiousity got the best of me. Because of the way the engine tucks 4 inches back under the firewall I have to pull the engine to get the tall valve covers off. I know, bad design, but that is the price I am paying for roller rockers and valve covers that will clear them. I spent most of the day and got the engine finally out and onto the garage floor.

When I got the valve covers off everything looked normal. Pulled the heads, everything was still fine. Removed the lifters, and they look great. I then spun the water pump pulley and it would barely turn and had a terrible grinding sound when it did turn! Holy crap, MY WATER PUMP BLEW!!

We removed the back off of the water pump and found the difuser ring that was spot welded to the vanes had come off, and was rattling around inside the pump. The welds didn't go all the way through. The thing that really ticks me off is that this is the pump I airfreighted in the week we left for Daytona, it was brand new. The first pump had a couple hours running time on it and it started blowing water out the bottom. The second pump failed in Daytona, showering me with antifreeze. I repaired the gasket in Daytona, and my repair held, but the welds did not.

These are Ford Racing short water pumps, and cost about $ 140.00 each. I bought the first one from Jegs, and the second one from Summit. I will be on the phone bright and early Monday morning with Summit Customer Service. At the very least they owe me a new pump and hopefully some help with the $ 500 towing bill. The worst part is, I am afraid to put another one of these on my car. I am also going to call Ford Racing, because whoever is modifying these pumps for them is doing a lousy job.

At least there was nothing wrong internally on my motor, but I am still not very happy right now. Here are some pictures I took to send to Summit. That loose ring is supposed to be welded to the vanes. You can see the dark marks from the spot welder, but they didn't penetrate the vanes.

Don

Tell them this failure forced you to take a engine apart and remove the engine because you would never expect it to be a brand new part you just bought.

That's exactly it, never in my wildest imagination did I think it was the water pump. It sounded just like something in the valvetrain went, a roller rocker, a pushrod, something bad. The car even started running badly, I guess from trying to turn the water pump. It even cranked slow when I started it to drive it on the trailer.

That is two of these exact same pumps that have blown in a very short period of time. When the gasket blew out of the bottom of the one in Daytona (it was the gasket between the pump and plate on the back, the one you don't ever have to touch) it blew back in my face and I was blinded temporarily and luckily got off the road.

I am going to move up the ladder at Summit to someone in charge of Customer Service. One I can understand, but two is way out of line.

Don

Wow Don, I would never have looked at the water pump either, especially after you already had one fail earlier. I expect Summit will quickly agree to replace the pump for you, but it will be interesting to see how they react to your suggestion that they pick up your consequential costs, too. Warranties generally specifically exclude consequential damages, limiting liability to replacing the part that fails and sometimes covering in and out labor, too. I'm sure you'll keep us informed.

Don, Man that just sucks. I also am of the opinion that Summit will replace the pump. I would be surprised though if the remburse you any of the other costs, hope I'm wrong, and I also hope you push this as hard as you can but sadly I know how these things usually go in this day and age.

Now with the above said, I also would not expect another pump to be a lot better. Looks like someone has a real quality control problem. Maybe sense this is your car and not Summits you could come up with a fix even for the replacement pump I am sure you will recieve. Looking at those parts and just a thought, why not drill the difuser ring and then rosette weld it to the vane? That way you are in control of the quality. Sad that you may need to do this or come up with some other remedy, but theres always the Hot Rodders way.

Roland

Man, if it wasn't for bad luck, you'd have none at all! So even if Summit wants to warranty the pump. Are you going to install a 3rd? Personally, I would attempt to run that same pump without that ring.

Because I used a chevy style radiator in my 34, which has the lower hose connection on the right side. I used a 69 mustang water pump. So I'm curious as to how short that "newfangled" pump is. If you wouldn't mind. Could I ask you to grab a couple measurements ??? I'm just curious, so if you can't no problem! Looks like you've got a bunch of other things hanging over you! And YES! I am so glad I didn't use one of those pumps!

Don thats bloody bad news and bad luck mate, I hope you get it all sorted.

That sucks big time. A friend who owned an engine shop had his daughter's Trans Am in the shop, it seized at a traffic light. They had the engine ready to pull, and he was carrying the alternator over to the parts pile when he noticed the pulley wouldn't turn! He hollered "Whoa!" and tried turning the crankshaft. It was free! The serpentine belt stopped the engine cold. At least they hadn't got the engine out yet.
I'd try a pump by another supplier. Was yours made overseas, by any chance? China, Taiwan, the Phillipines, Korea, all crap. A rebuilt American pump is far better than a new one from those clowns.Or even a good used one!

I have to say, all my dealings with Summit have been first rate. They do what they promise and if something happens they do their best to make it right. Example was when my Son Don's TCI transmission blew a torque convertor after only a few miles. TCI told us to send the transmission and convertor back to them (the transmision got wiped out too) and for us to pay the shipping. ($ 125 each way) We dd, and TCI found the front pump had gone bad and wiped out everything. They redid the transmission and put a new torque convertor with it and made us pay the shipping BACK. I complained to Summit and they kicked in $ 75 to help with the freight.

I'm not looking for total reimbursement on this water pump failure, but it will end up costing me a lot of time and money when all is said and done. I need not only a new water pump, but also a complete engine gasket set to put the motor back togther, oil, transmission grease, etc. Mainly, I just want a pump that I can trust.

I spoke to the Ford Racing Rep at Turkey Run, and he says they build this pump special. They machine the nose off of some other racing pump they offer, shorten the parts up, and reassemble it. Whoever they are using to do the pumps is screwing up. The pump that blew up in my face (literally) did not have the two shallow bolts torqued down from the factory, which is why the inside gasket blew out, and probably why my first pump failed.

Don

As a side note, the reason I am running this short Ford Racing pump is for the extra 1.5 inches of clearance it gives me at the radiator. I spent a lot of money (about $ 1000 total) to get all the parts needed to use this pump. (Timing cover, pump, pulleys, and Ford Racing harmonic balancer, plus machining to make pulleys fit) However, I know that Snow White Ltd makes a setup that cuts 2 inches off a sbf. I think it uses an Opel water pump or something like that. Does anyone have any experience with this one? I might consider switching.

Here is a picture of that setup.

Don

Don - I'm using a pump from these guys. Not sure which version you are using as far as length and rotation, but they might have one that works

http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...ode=FordHIFlWP

Dave, those look good, but I think they are standard length. I need as much room as possible, which is why I bit the bullet and bought the shorty one from Ford. Ford offers two versions, a serpentine one and a V belt one (different directions) I am using the V belt version.

Don

Ok, I just got off the phone with Summit..........I couldn't wait until Monday. They are sending me a new pump and selling me a gasket set at cost. They will issue a ups pickup for the defective pump. They say Ford Racing has NO warranty on this stuff........isn't THAT special.

When I get the new pump I am going to pull the back cover off and try to determine how good the welds are, and then goop the heck out of the gasket, torque those two little bolts at the bottom, and button my engine back up.

Fishing is looking better all the time.

Don

Based on the wear pattern on the back of the pump it looks like the bearing (Chinese?) probably went bad and the defuser ring got knocked off. I had that same thing happen on my Dodge diesel. Pump was leaking pulled it off and noticed that the new pump had a difuser ring but the old one did not. Went back to the parts store and they started calling around to some of the repair shops they supply to. They answer was " when the bearing starts to go bad, the shaft moves, and the tolerances are so close the the ring starts to get ground off the pump. All the chips or chunks end up in the block. Hopefully not to be heard from again.

Wow Don, sorry about all the extra work you ended up doing. Mis-diagnosis happens to all of us at some point (I was about 15 minuets away from pulling a transmission that didn't need to come out yesterday when my rear end puked).

I've made to comment more that once that I wish the quality or parts we're getting mow was as good as the stuff I complained about 10 years ago.